Mike Vick sentenced to two years in prison

[Double Eights]

Re: Mike Vick sentenced to two years in prison

I actually agree with him. You can watch a child ball his eyes out if his dog got lost. Bring in another replacment dog the very next day, the kid is happy again. I've watched this scenario play out on many levels.

Those are children.

My dog can never be replaced. I may get another dog when I move out and am living on my own, but nothing can ever replace the relationship I had with my dog.

People on this forum underestimate the amount of love people have for animals.

[Skerik]

Re: Mike Vick sentenced to two years in prison

I actually agree with him. You can watch a child ball his eyes out if his dog got lost. Bring in another replacment dog the very next day, the kid is happy again. I've watched this scenario play out on many levels.

Great. How does that at all relate to the electrocuting, drowning, or shooting of dogs?

[wwharton]

Re: Mike Vick sentenced to two years in prison

Again, I eat turkey. I don't eat dog.

Killing an animal as a source of food is totally different than killing an animal as a source of entertainment.

Don't know why I keep bothering but you keep going so here's another... hunting for entertainment is legal. It's dog fighting that isn't. I personally think both are wrong. I don't think either hunters or dog fighters should be mauled by said breed of animal.

Yes, it does...if you can't see the difference between a quick and painless death vs. jamming some electrodes in something before it dies (or holding it underwater until it dies) then I don't know what to tell you.

Seriously, you should take a look at how animals are bred, raised and killed for us to be happy with how our food looks and tastes. I think you'd be surprised.

Your first paragraph is a much better explaination than what I was saying. Also, this is a good post. I never mentioned that he didn't deserve to go to jail. I understand he was punished because he broke the law. My whole point is that its much to harsh to punish this guy while Dice posted that a guy who only got 5 years for admittingly murdering his wife. It shows how screwed up our contires priorities are. We'd rather shun and smear a guy who kills these poor, defensless animals than a guy who takes another human beings life.

The problem is to make the comparison Dice was making you'd have to be talking about a Mafia boss or someone on that level. In that case, he would've gotten a lot more than 5 years. Vick wasn't charged as a dog fighter. He was charged as a ring leader, owner, funding the operation including the residence where it took place.

I've seen them. I think a lot of them are way out there. But to try to counter something extreme with an argument, that "they are just dogs" is just as extreme imo. I also don't like the well it's not that bad, or other people do it excuse, as if that makes what he did ok. To me that's nothing more than a cheap deflection ploy. Maybe it's just me

It depends on the interpretation. I think it's silly to say Vick shouldn't get punished at all (or only a slap on the wrist) b/c "they're just dogs" or "it's not that bad" however when I read that he should be put in a pit with a bunch of hungry pitbulls, get the death penalty or hopes that he gets raped then a response of "it's not that bad" is appropriate in my opinion. It seems like you're grouping responses with the wrong arguments. I was getting hammered for that type of thing in the other thread. Since the beginning my thoughts have been pretty much on par with yours but while I think some pro Vick people are a bit clueless I think the overboard people against Vick are disgusting. Some say he's more likely to kill a human when I read what some people write and I'd worry more about them than Vick. I don't think you're seeing deflection ploys so much as defending any man's right to live considering the nature of a crime that deserves about 20-25 months in jail.

This is America. Those are not true facts in this country.

With your logic, women should have no rights here. They don't have any over in the middle east.

Sorry, facts are facts no matter what country they're from. My logic is that people should be punished according to the rules of the society that they are in. No less (like you're trying to claim me to think) and no more (like you're trying to say).

The only reason they're bred for fighting is because people like Vick bankroll the fighting rings. I'm against dog fighting, **** fighting, bullfighting, etc. I understand that once the dogs are bred to be that evil and mean there's nothing you can do with them.

I agree with you though, it's the breeding/fighting that I'm more at odds with. I don't agree with how they killed them (as you and I say, pretty damn horrific ways), but not a whole lot more they could do at that point. They'd all ready raised killer fighting dogs, no way they can be salvaged.

We're just lucky that none of the dogs killed any kids or other people. Just recently a 5 year old around me was killed by the family pet, I don't want to imagine what one of Vick's dogs would have done if it got loose.

We are and I was in the heart of an area that had many cases of that when pits became public enemy number one. Vick was punished for breeding dogs to fight and bankrolling a fighting ring. All I'm saying is that the method used for killing the dogs does not say any more about his character than what's already said by him breeding dogs to fight to begin with. Personally, I think it's pretty messed up but I would never fear for my life or the life of any child in the presence of Michael Vick. At no point will I believe Vick is more likely to kill human beings or anything else b/c of how the dogs were killed. It'd be different if they had access to humane ways to kill those animals or if it were possible to release them somewhere that they wouldn't be a danger to society and they just chose to kill them in these ways.

Vick was given more time than the average person would've been under the same charges for a first offense. That's plenty to go along with the effect being out of football for 3 years will do on his life after he pays his debt to society. Asking for more is overkill and the overreactions by many in this thread are shared around the country and influenced the little bit of extra time he did get and will also influence Godell's decision when he gets out. That's the part that I don't think is fair.

[Graphik]

Re: Mike Vick sentenced to two years in prison

Those are children.

My dog can never be replaced. I may get another dog when I move out and am living on my own, but nothing can ever replace the relationship I had with my dog.

People on this forum underestimate the amount of love people have for animals.

I guess. My dog would bite me groin off for me saying this but he really is expendable. He's 15 years old, can still rip and run around(not as much as he used to) and I've had this dog for the majority of my life. And as much love as I have for my dog sparky, if he passed, I know he'll never be replaced but he will be replaced, ya know.

[Graphik]

Re: Mike Vick sentenced to two years in prison

Great. How does that at all relate to the electrocuting, drowning, or shooting of dogs?

It doesn't. It relates to how meaningless a dogs life really is compared to say...a humans....

[mgoblue]

Re: Mike Vick sentenced to two years in prison

Seriously, you should take a look at how animals are bred, raised and killed for us to be happy with how our food looks and tastes. I think you'd be surprised.





It depends on the interpretation. I think it's silly to say Vick shouldn't get punished at all (or only a slap on the wrist) b/c "they're just dogs" or "it's not that bad" however when I read that he should be put in a pit with a bunch of hungry pitbulls, get the death penalty or hopes that he gets raped then a response of "it's not that bad" is appropriate in my opinion. It seems like you're grouping responses with the wrong arguments. I was getting hammered for that type of thing in the other thread. Since the beginning my thoughts have been pretty much on par with yours but while I think some pro Vick people are a bit clueless I think the overboard people against Vick are disgusting. Some say he's more likely to kill a human when I read what some people write and I'd worry more about them than Vick. I don't think you're seeing deflection ploys so much as defending any man's right to live considering the nature of a crime that deserves about 20-25 months in jail.


We are and I was in the heart of an area that had many cases of that when pits became public enemy number one. Vick was punished for breeding dogs to fight and bankrolling a fighting ring. All I'm saying is that the method used for killing the dogs does not say any more about his character than what's already said by him breeding dogs to fight to begin with. Personally, I think it's pretty messed up but I would never fear for my life or the life of any child in the presence of Michael Vick. At no point will I believe Vick is more likely to kill human beings or anything else b/c of how the dogs were killed. It'd be different if they had access to humane ways to kill those animals or if it were possible to release them somewhere that they wouldn't be a danger to society and they just chose to kill them in these ways.

Vick was given more time than the average person would've been under the same charges for a first offense. That's plenty to go along with the effect being out of football for 3 years will do on his life after he pays his debt to society. Asking for more is overkill and the overreactions by many in this thread are shared around the country and influenced the little bit of extra time he did get and will also influence Godell's decision when he gets out. That's the part that I don't think is fair.

I agree with you...he did get more time than the average person, and I don't think he should have gotten more time (or death). I guess I've just been here debating with the "they're only dogs" people, but I'm in agreement with you on that aspect.

I don't, and won't, fear Vick or think he'll kill people now either. I think he should be reinstated immediately after he's out of jail. Teams know whatever risks if they sign him, and hopefully he'll be smarter then. Vick will have paid his price, the NFL shouldn't tack any more on.

While I do realize that the meat industry isn't pretty (Have you read "The Jungle"? that ish is freaky, granted it was early 1900's, but still), I personally have more of a problem with the breeding to fight vs. breeding for food. I just can't agree that what Vick was doing is just like raising turkeys or whatnot...that is what makes me shake my head.

[Double Eights]

Re: Mike Vick sentenced to two years in prison

I agree with you...he did get more time than the average person,

How do you figure?

His friends got 18 months (I think), and he got 23. He got more because he was the ring-leader of the orginization.

Why do I get the feeling no one realizes that this sentencing is not soley based on dog fighting. It is based on more than just his participation in killing dogs. He funded an illegal gambling orginization, killed dogs, caught using marijuana after he pled guilty, etc..

[Graphik]

Re: Mike Vick sentenced to two years in prison

I personally have more of a problem with the breeding to fight vs. breeding for food.

I would really like to know the differences? In both instances, they die in the end so whats the point?

[mgoblue]

Re: Mike Vick sentenced to two years in prison

I would really like to know the differences? In both instances, they die in the end so whats the point?

Breeding to fight serves no legitimate purpose...Breeding for food serves a purpose. Sure, could we theoretically all be vegetarians? Yeah, it's possible. We're omnivores though, breeding for consumption is done so humans can survive.

I just see a difference between doing something for "fun" and doing something so we can feed ourselves and survive.

[Yakmala]

Re: Mike Vick sentenced to two years in prison

What I'm wondering is... Why no charges for income tax evasion?

Dogfighting is gambling operation. Money exchanges hands. Owners and trainers back up their pride in their animals by putting down bets. Are we to believe that Mike Vick never bet and won on a dogfight? That Vick's associates never bet or won on a dogfight using money bankrolled by Vick?

You can pretty much be assured that any winnings were never reported to the IRS.

[realtalktruth]

Re: Mike Vick sentenced to two years in prison

which is exactly why gambling is illegal. the government does not get a cut.

[bkrich83]

Re: Mike Vick sentenced to two years in prison

What I'm wondering is... Why no charges for income tax evasion?

Dogfighting is gambling operation. Money exchanges hands. Owners and trainers back up their pride in their animals by putting down bets. Are we to believe that Mike Vick never bet and won on a dogfight? That Vick's associates never bet or won on a dogfight using money bankrolled by Vick?

You can pretty much be assured that any winnings were never reported to the IRS.

According to his plea deal, he fronted the money for the gambling operation, but never kept any of the winnings.

[wwharton]

Re: Mike Vick sentenced to two years in prison

While I do realize that the meat industry isn't pretty (Have you read "The Jungle"? that ish is freaky, granted it was early 1900's, but still), I personally have more of a problem with the breeding to fight vs. breeding for food. I just can't agree that what Vick was doing is just like raising turkeys or whatnot...that is what makes me shake my head.

I haven't read that. I've seen and read some things about what goes on today though and I can understand why someone would want to take a stand against it. I can just admit that I don't care that much. I like steak, chicken, pig, etc. I wish they didn't go to the lengths they do but not enough to stop eating them so I won't act like I do, ya know?

With that said, unlike Graphik I do agree that there's a difference but then that brings up other cases where we do similar things. For example, hunting for sport is legal in this country but only for certain animals. Greyhounds and horses are bred for our entertainment and put down when they can no longer race. In Spain you have bull fighting. I personally have a problem with all of these, but again, not enough to raise a stink. The acts of dogs fighting is much more brutal than any of these but the details aren't much different. It's just some are excepted societal norms and others aren't.

The REAL difference with dog fighting lies in the fact that it's illegal more than the reason, imo. It's like drugs. Legal drugs are controlled by the gov't are made by certain standards and have no relation to organized crime. Like illegal drugs, dog fighting has to be done in secret bringing about inhumane practices, attracting organized crime and gambling.

I don't think that dog fighting should be legal (by the way it wasn't as serious of a charge in Va until about a month or so before Vick's incident) or that hunting for sport or the other examples should be illegal. I even agree that dog fighting by nature is a bit less humane than the starving and other practices of racing greyhounds, and such. My stance is before, during, and after this I've thought they're all wrong but haven't been passionate enough to stand in a picket line and Vick being involved shouldn't make me change my feelings. Now I've known about dog fighting longer than it seems many others have but even still, we all know about the other legal activities that aren't a far cry from it. It should be looked as the crime that it is and he should (and was) be charged accordingly for it. All the other personal feelings should be put in perspective. Not saying that yours aren't but many clearly are viewing with blinders on.

How do you figure?

His friends got 18 months (I think), and he got 23. He got more because he was the ring-leader of the orginization.

Why do I get the feeling no one realizes that this sentencing is not soley based on dog fighting. It is based on more than just his participation in killing dogs. He funded an illegal gambling orginization, killed dogs, caught using marijuana after he pled guilty, etc..

Vick and his friends didn't invent dog fighting. They all got more than the average dog fighter would get. Vick would get more than the others b/c of the reasons you mentioned, however would also generally be given a bit more of a break than it seems he got for it being a first offense (he has no prior record for anything... not just this).

The amount he got shouldn't be surprising consider the high profile case and public outcry. As BK said, I think it's about right in the middle for both sides (a little more than if there was no public outcry, a little less than what the crazed public wanted). BTW, killing dogs is part of dog fighting, not additional... it just speaks to his level of involvement. If you're said to run a dog fighting ring I'm pretty sure you automatically are said to have killed dogs as part of the job description.

What I'm wondering is... Why no charges for income tax evasion?

Dogfighting is gambling operation. Money exchanges hands. Owners and trainers back up their pride in their animals by putting down bets. Are we to believe that Mike Vick never bet and won on a dogfight? That Vick's associates never bet or won on a dogfight using money bankrolled by Vick?

You can pretty much be assured that any winnings were never reported to the IRS.

I haven't read the actual charges but they may not have touched the gambling at all. When he pled I don't believe they had. It was said that Vick never got any money from the operation which would work in his favor in this case. He funded it but didn't profit off of it, therefore no tax evasion. It was a sick non-profit organization.

[ZB9]

Re: Mike Vick sentenced to two years in prison

Breeding to fight serves no legitimate purpose...Breeding for food serves a purpose. Sure, could we theoretically all be vegetarians? Yeah, it's possible. We're omnivores though, breeding for consumption is done so humans can survive.

I just see a difference between doing something for "fun" and doing something so we can feed ourselves and survive.

and breeding to fight leads to little kids getting attacked, etc.

They become weapons. Those type of pitbulls dont have any good purpose in society. That type of breeding should be eliminated.

[faster]

Re: Mike Vick sentenced to two years in prison

The difference is the cruelty to animals. The things that his association did were dispicable. If you watch 2 boxers, they have a choice to be in the ring. If you watch two dogs, they do not. Above that, Vick and his cronies electrocuted, drowned, hung dogs that were losers.

Sorry if you can do that to a dog, you're the lowest class of human being. If you can know that's happening, you're just as bad.

Dogs are animals and people are animals. To elevate one animal over another isn't right. Sorry, but my dog is just like a brother to me. You screw with my dog and you're going down. If your mentality is that dogs are a lower class and every animal is beneath humans, then I'm sorry for you.

We do raise and eat other animals. Most of the time those farmers are raising their cattle and animals very humanely. Yes, sometimes they're not treated as good as possible, but most farmers care about their animals. You can't help but build a bond with the animals you take care of.

If Vick is so mentally ******** that he couldn't see what he did was wrong, fronting an entire operation as he did and having been at these executions, then he's a sorry sorry human being, a ******** one at that, and he deserves much more than a couple years. Put him away for life. I'm glad my dog is safe at home right now... it almost brings me to tears to think of Vick's crew torturing her. And anyone it doesn't sicken gives me less hope for humanity.