Madden NFL 15 Trailer and Screenshots - Player Sense 2.0

[kjcheezhead]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

@Skyboxer why oh why did you post that slowed video, it really made the deficiencies stand out, lol. Aside from the stuff already pointed out extensively, at the 1:25 mark in that video the pass thrown by the rookie QB Blake Bortles seems to be right on target, even with a defender bearing down on him, right in his face when releasing. I thought pressure was supposed to effect accuracy, especially for lesser skilled QBs and this guys a rookie. I bring this up because hopefully that's something that can be tweaked before release. http://www.easports.com/madden-nfl/n...e-passing-game"QBs now throw a number of inaccurate passes determined by their accuracy ratings and pocket pressure, with the level of accuracy ranging from “very inaccurate” to “perfect.” As in the real NFL, there's a much higher chance of being inaccurate when under pressure." Does anybody else see that or does it look like to you guys the pass was effected?

That slowed down video killed any props I had for this game. The animations and player movement were showcased as the worst of any sports game. There is just no fight from the wrs either.

The accuracy does concern me as well. I've only seen a couple of inaccurate passes in all the footage released, most completions are either perfect chest level or the wr has to jump for it. I just don't see enough variety. It would be nice to see them go to a knee to make a catch, or slide, a bobble where it's pulled in on second effort. QB accuracy looks to be a neutered improvement.

This game has potential, but they design it for tourney play. Place premiums on user control and minimize randomness like errant throws, penalties etc. What you get is bad animations and quarterbacks regularly completing 80%.

The flaws in this game we see as legacy issues are design flaws that are unavoidable with the game EA is making.

[BrianFifaFan]

Quote: Originally Posted by countryboy

and my anticipation level has just gone up! Looking forward to getting my hands on the game

Why? The Raiders will still stink! That said, this is the first thing that has really hyped me. D in Madden? Who'd of thunk it!

[Mintsa]

I really hope defense is a huge factor this year. I haven't felt that I can hold someone defensively since Madden 2005.

[countryboy]

Quote: Originally Posted by BrianFifaFan

Why? The Raiders will still stink! That said, this is the first thing that has really hyped me. D in Madden? Who'd of thunk it!

Hey! I will not tolerate you spewing the truth about my team...

LOL

[King Gro23]

IMO here are my impressions on the slow madden video:

Play #1 NO@CLE - Solid defensive play from ALL 22 cam? Maybe coordinator cam it look like M.Austin Seam go was a "squeeze" type of throw.. Hoyer#5 under no pressure but tough throw to make given the tandem. Looks like bad ball placement if you catch the Ball land indicator at 0:04 (Hoyer's Ratings?) Byrd proven safety for his ball skills and coverage bait, play result=livable)

Play #2 BAL@CLE
Flacco steps up in pocket.. 0:18 see a 4 man rush /1Lbacker.. must be dime.

I have a issue with Flacco stepping up in pocket to about 3-4 yards behind LOS --nearing LOS which is apparently the 24' (3rd&6 --Yellow line on 30') and the CLE- DB on right side of the screen does not Clamp down and creep in with flacco given he has nobody out on his side for assignment. Might be TE blocking on right side of line. Looks like a tackle to me. The DB should still clamp down and float about 4-5 deep from LOS but not so wide outside numbers making a great valley to run for QB. he doesn't have to face up and run at QB although it would be nice to see from an aggressive linebacker that has no assignment which is seldom.

Player sense should recognize that and have him bite down and seal the edge and prevent possible scramble for 1st down. (Down and distance should matter for defensive mentality.)

biggest plague to this play: this is what makes madden kind of bland, the lack of freelance instincts. When routes are done or coverage's reach their mark: Madden likes to sit and watch instead of constantly reacting, If the WR's look at the QB- Players should recognize sometimes when he is under pressure & urgently break out of their routes to get open or flow with the scramble? Routes end on madden and players sit in one position too long, That flat route reciever who caught the ball had a lot of space under neither after he reached flats and seen the defense around him he could of cut back up the middle like a underneath drag or (<) the sideways V route back towards the numbers inside like it was a slant route and toasted the defense. Overall play was 50/50 the issues are what make and break plays regarding stick play.


Play #3
The Sherm vs Jordy play 1:08

-Jordy Nelson is at most 5 yards outside the hashes

-Also looks to seem as Jordy nelson has coverage more approximate to him on his back bip to the right side of screen(DB/S) on that side of field.

-Questions to myself- Why is jordan nelson doing a curl route right outside the hashes.. Was he lined up in a tight bunch?TE? Motioned? Maybe he was slot and ball was on Left hash (Left side of screen )

- It appears that Jordy is postioned pivoted and Sherm's angle on the break cant be Jordy Nelsons focus if Rodgers and aiming and firing.

-Therefore I dont think Jordy should of broke forward i think he was sitting in his hook(Lack of "freelance") around coverage staring down his QB awaiting pass ..

-Sherman is in the middle of the field where did he line up? that has him breaking like that to that position in the field inside out towards sidelines but really your five yards from the hashes. LB territory

- I know it wasnt a drag/Slant/ Comeback/ Post/Banana/ zig/ ??? those routes dont leave you in that locale on the field sitting still.

- Sherm makes break on ball and swats away ball on soft coverage

My issue is how does that play make sense it could have been man coverage.

Play #4
SD@KC 1:14
I like Sean smith's undercut cut off on Keenan Allen but I'm not sure why a big Corner in himself 6'3 220lb for making that move why he didnt try to pick that off, I'd expect that move out of a smaller db who was physically outmatched but I believe Smith DB is bigger than AllenWR. .

Play #5 HOU@JAX

Blake Bortles IMO does look slightly bothered by Watt. but Bortles is a big QB he is built to be sturdy in Pocket if your 6'5 230+. We dont want to see you slouching out of your throws.

-Reason i think its affected is the depth of it he throw it high and outside on the sidelines, Bortles has a arm to be seen but I imagine he has whip. He throws it high because of Watts height & pressure

-If he wasnt pressured I see that as completion because he was Gonna plant a Seed on Cecil Shorts hip right out of the break down field but more on rope and lower

I could live with that battle for the ball on most plays if it played out dynamically enough to where I wasnt seeing the same repititive animation in that scenario.

play #6
BUF@MIA 1:36

not much on the bills dolphin play, IMO you got to be able to stop on a dime to play any agile skill position in the league , it should have the proper physics and weighted momentum but still needs to be fine tuned and up to speed rather than clunky and too weighted.


The rest of the plays to each his own, Id like to hear more information and get my hands on this game. Havent bought madden in 2 years for the first time since 98'

Quote: Originally Posted by Skyboxer

Yep I really like a lot of what I see but some of the animations are still making it a bit rough. Not to where I still won't enjoy it. Liked seeing DB's that aren't looking at play not reacting as soon as ball is thrown. Don't like how players rushing the QB still go straight at an OL and no (at least from what I see) stutter stepping or faking a move inside/outside to try and beat the OL. Always straight at them. Here's a slow down vid to just see things ..well.. a little slower...

[GiantBlue76]

Quote: Originally Posted by King Gro23

Play #2 BAL@CLE Flacco steps up in pocket.. 0:18 see a 4 man rush /1Lbacker.. must be dime. I have a issue with Flacco stepping up in pocket to about 3-4 yards behind LOS --nearing LOS which is apparently the 24' (3rd&6 --Yellow line on 30') and the CLE- DB on right side of the screen does not Clamp down and creep in with flacco given he has nobody out on his side for assignment. Might be TE blocking on right side of line. Looks like a tackle to me. The DB should still clamp down and float about 4-5 deep from LOS but not so wide outside numbers making a great valley to run for QB. he doesn't have to face up and run at QB although it would be nice to see from an aggressive linebacker that has no assignment which is seldom. Player sense should recognize that and have him bite down and seal the edge and prevent possible scramble for 1st down. (Down and distance should matter for defensive mentality.) biggest plague to this play: this is what makes madden kind of bland, the lack of freelance instincts. When routes are done or coverage's reach their mark: Madden likes to sit and watch instead of constantly reacting, If the WR's look at the QB- Players should recognize sometimes when he is under pressure & urgently break out of their routes to get open or flow with the scramble? Routes end on madden and players sit in one position too long, That flat route reciever who caught the ball had a lot of space under neither after he reached flats and seen the defense around him he could of cut back up the middle like a underneath drag or (<) the sideways V route back towards the numbers inside like it was a slant route and toasted the defense. Overall play was 50/50 the issues are what make and break plays regarding stick play.

Nice breakdown and this is exactly my issue. I can see this leading to the exact same extreme frustration moments I had with 25. I wonder how long it would have taken for the corner to react had Flacco run to that side. I have some clips where this exact same scenario happens in 25. My CB and linebacker literally stood still while RG3 ran right by them. They only reacted AFTER he had cleared them by 3 or 4 yards. To me, this implementation seems to basically say, "cover this zone, if no players enter the zone, I am idle. Once a player enters the zone circle, then I can move to chase said player". Where is the player intelligence that would have that corner creep to the line of scrimmage or even attack it? When you tout "player sense 2.0", I would expect to see these things, especially since games like backbreaker even have this kind of logic in it.

[TTD71]

Quote: Originally Posted by King Gro23

Play #2 BAL@CLE Flacco steps up in pocket.. 0:18 see a 4 man rush /1Lbacker.. must be dime. I have a issue with Flacco stepping up in pocket to about 3-4 yards behind LOS --nearing LOS which is apparently the 24' (3rd&6 --Yellow line on 30') and the CLE- DB on right side of the screen does not Clamp down and creep in with flacco given he has nobody out on his side for assignment. ...

I had another problem with that part of the footage...when he steps up into the pocket, he ends up moving past the blockers and in front of the pass rushers on each edge....instead of the protection setting the edge and forcing the DEs to run outside of them, they are stuck together like glue.

This situation should result in holding A LOT...if the OTs both have outside edge protection responsibility and the QB steps up to a position that puts the DEs between himself and the OTs, then that is not a pocket at all! Granted its one play and slowed down BUT this same kind of futile logic has been in Madden forever...through one dev team after another, through multiple players and former players and coaches supposedly helping with the blocking logic....

I am at a loss. If the game still keep treating the pass pocket wrong and still keeps having stupid linemen engaging each other instead of actively trying to get to or protect the QB, then the other stuff won't matter at all in time. This is one of the primary reasons that crap play-styles with little to no football logic still work in Madden year after year in H2H settings.

The OTs and DEs in one-on-one match-ups collpase into linear 1v1 play and lack any awareness of the QB's movements from there. As the QB steps up and gets himself into a disavantaged location (with the pass rush between himself and his protection) it should result in either a sack, a QB hit or a penalty. In that example they had the QB throw to the flats to illustrate better coverage...but seriously, if the line play remains that broken I don't think the zone logic of the AI is going to matter. People in H2H games will get the timing down and the passing game will end up feeling painfully familiar before Labor Day...

[vannwolfhawk]

Quote: Originally Posted by GiantBlue76

Nice breakdown and this is exactly my issue. I can see this leading to the exact same extreme frustration moments I had with 25. I wonder how long it would have taken for the corner to react had Flacco run to that side. I have some clips where this exact same scenario happens in 25. My CB and linebacker literally stood still while RG3 ran right by them. They only reacted AFTER he had cleared them by 3 or 4 yards. To me, this implementation seems to basically say, "cover this zone, if no players enter the zone, I am idle. Once a player enters the zone circle, then I can move to chase said player". Where is the player intelligence that would have that corner creep to the line of scrimmage or even attack it? When you tout "player sense 2.0", I would expect to see these things, especially since games like backbreaker even have this kind of logic in it.

See this is why I think ea should release more clips earlier in cycle so people with a different perspective can give feedback before it's to late in dev cycle to change it. If devs are lurking and reading videos and posts like this and one above it can only help except if it's to late in the game, kind of like I assume we are now.

I know that is what game changers are supposed to be for but when your at these events it's hard to catch it all like you can with a slowed down video capture like this. Then not to mention so many are caught up in hype and praise it rather than break down what still needs to be fixed. Having thousands see these rather than 6 or 7 people can only help with more eyes and perspectives given. I know it's wishful thinking and will probably never happen though. Oh well...