As a community we can not support Madden 16 without Overhauled Penalties.

[purplerat]

Quote: Originally Posted by bucky60

EDIT: I had to edit this because I forgot to say that first, I agree with much of what you are saying about tying penalties to something to make them more or less frequent for that game. A veteran QB with a great hard count, a physical CB, etc. But there should still be an element of randomness to the penalties. ORIGINAL POST: Yeah, like an offensive lineman forgets the snap count. That's only tied to the offensive lineman, well, forgetting the snap count. Random doesn't always mean nonsensical. Now I could see this tied into an awareness rating, but even the smartest of o-lineman can forget the snap count and jump off sides.

True, but Madden doesn't have a snap count or even a cadence. Once again this is putting the cart before the horse to want o-lineman to jump the count when there is no such count.

[Franchise408]

Quote: Originally Posted by NINJAK2

Would you like them to remove fouls, traveling, goaltending, etc. from b-ball games? How about no more yellow cards, red cards, offsides in soccer games? Penalties are a part of the NFL and you should want to see them. How many times in a real NFL game have you seen a big run or pass negated by a holding penalty? Now how many times do you see this in Madden? How many 1st downs have you seen awarded by a timely PI call in an NFL game? Now how many times have you seen this in Madden? They have to fix this imo. If ALL the penalty sliders actually worked, those that want to see them could see them. In it's current state that isn't a reality.

I would say that the difference here is that goaltending, traveling, fouls, etc. in basketball games are more often than not all things that are actually done by the user. They aren't just random occurrences that happen for no particular reason - they happen because the user actually did these things.

I'm not arguing against the implementation of penalties. All I'm offering is my perspective that I absolutely hate "random" happenings for no other reason than the game arbitrarily decided it needed to happen. Fumbles in this game are bad enough. I've had times where running with my QB, I hit the button to slide, and instead of sliding, he dives forward and fumbles the ball. I've had way too many times where, a running back with 90+ carrying fumbled the ball numerous times in a game while I was pressing the "cover ball" button each time.

Last thing I need is penalties being arbitrarily called during a game.

I play in an online league, so the winner being the better player on that day is very important to me. I absolutely can't stand when I feel like one side or the other got "Maddened" in a game, and that's exactly what it would feel like if penalties were completely random. It's already bad enough when I watch one team constantly fumble while the other doesn't, or one team drops gimme interceptions while the other picks off every slightly off thrown ball, or one team drops wide open passes while the other is catching prayers in double coverage.

Does that stuff happen in real life? Yes. But there is human effort that goes into making that stuff happen, not just random luck.

And I wouldn't call myself a casual. I'm in an online league that prides itself on attempting to be "sim", adjusting settings and sliders to get the most "realistic" experience, from accuracy to injuries, and has many rules in place to eliminate "lobby ball" from our league.

But some things just don't seem fun to me. Penalties occurring for no reason other than the game randomly decided to do it isn't fun.

[capa]

Yours is the perfect argument on why there needs to be 2 options - Use Penalties and Don't Use Penalties. They already have the "don't use penalties" code in the game!

Many, not all, online leagues, tournament, or lobby players do not want games decided by "random" occurrences...right or wrong. Offline players, for the most part, want to see in Madden what they see on the field each week.

It's such an easy thing for EA to implement. Their issue is when they decide to ram down the user's throat their interpretation of how the game should play. Just let us decide how we want it to play, and as you mentioned, that could be different for the different user types and play styles.

C

[NINJAK2]

Quote: Originally Posted by capa

Yours is the perfect argument on why there needs to be 2 options - Use Penalties and Don't Use Penalties. They already have the "don't use penalties" code in the game! Many, not all, online leagues, tournament, or lobby players do not want games decided by "random" occurrences...right or wrong. Offline players, for the most part, want to see in Madden what they see on the field each week. It's such an easy thing for EA to implement. Their issue is when they decide to ram down the user's throat their interpretation of how the game should play. Just let us decide how we want it to play, and as you mentioned, that could be different for the different user types and play styles. C

[Fist Of Kings]

Penalties may not be fun, but they are a part of football, and if this game is going to call itself a 'sim', they need to be called more often. That is the point of sliders(if they worked). If you don't like penalties being called, you lower them, and do the opposite if you wanted more penalties. I played until 2020 in cfm, and I could count on one hand the times I saw pass interference called. Why have them in the game if raising the slider doesn't do anything?

And as for scripted actions, the game has that with challenges, that we can't even challenge plays ourselves most of the time. The ai challenges plays for us, and the end result is often wrong resulting in a loss of a time out. Losing time outs because of the game challenging plays itself instead of us would be a bigger problem if the games were competitive and if the ai weren't so bad.

Another flaw is that unlike in other sports games, raising or lowering penalties determines how players play instead of just focusing on the penalty itself.

[Cardot]

Quote: Originally Posted by purplerat

I think the example was you could tackle a WR running a route and the game would just ignore that. It's basically saying that if you don't want/don't care about penalties then you basically just want NFL Street or something.

Right, so I guess a key question here is when a user sets a penalty to off, does that mean he doesn't want the penalty called in the game? Or he doesn't want it to happen to begin with?

In either case, I don't think you need a separate "engine". For the later, with Pass Interference, they would probably need to program a force field around the receiver until the ball arrives. With offsides, there is force field at the line of scrimmage until the ball is snapped. So there is some programming involved, but far from a complete overhaul.

[Franchise408]

Quote: Originally Posted by capa

Yours is the perfect argument on why there needs to be 2 options - Use Penalties and Don't Use Penalties. They already have the "don't use penalties" code in the game! Many, not all, online leagues, tournament, or lobby players do not want games decided by "random" occurrences...right or wrong. Offline players, for the most part, want to see in Madden what they see on the field each week. It's such an easy thing for EA to implement. Their issue is when they decide to ram down the user's throat their interpretation of how the game should play. Just let us decide how we want it to play, and as you mentioned, that could be different for the different user types and play styles. C

But again, is implementing random penalties that happen for no reason other than an under the hood "dice roll" just for the sake of having penalties really a good reality?

I'm going to side with the poster here who says that if penalties are implemented (well, penalties ARE implemented, we should start saying "fixed") that penalties should come from human action and choice, not just random dice rolls.

I would agree that yes, penalties NEED to be fixed. I pretty accurately got screwed out of a game in my league because the game randomly decided to call Defensive P.I. on me, despite the fact that my defenders never made even the slightest contact with the receiver (and was actively trailing about a yard behind the receiver), but P.I. was called, and essentially gave my opponent a free touchdown in what amounted to be a 7 point game (the play in question was a 3rd and long in his own territory, and he'd have been forced to punt).

I don't mind if false starts occur from hard counts, that give a chance to draw the defense offsides, OR risk getting a false start. That's a penalty that comes from human action. But a random facemask call because an animation randomly triggered for absolutely no reason? A random flag for a holding penalty because reasons? That's not really effective gameplay.

[Franchise408]

I'm also getting minorly frustrated at the idea that if we want penalties to actually work properly, and not just be random dice rolls, that we don't want penalties.

I DO want penalties in the game. I DON'T want flags thrown randomly for the sake of having penalties in the game, but having the factor for the flags be nothing more than the game arbitrarily deciding that there needed to be a penalty on that play.

Like I said, to the comparison of NBA 2K, fouls, goaltending, traveling, etc. are all USER actions. They aren't random dice rolls. The human user player actually does these things.

That's how I want penalties in Madden. Not just random occurrences for the sake of penalties.

That's like saying that touchdowns happen in football, so teams should just be randomly awarded 7 points because the game decided it was time for a touchdown. Or interceptions happen, so even though a receiver was wide open, the game decided it was interception time so the defense intercepted the ball.

Oh wait... that one already happens...