News Post

Why I'm Done With NBA Basketball This Year: NBA 2K9

11:53 AM - March 24, 2009 by RaychelSnr

If you have been paying attention to the community’s efforts to tweak NBA 2K9 during the past few months, you probably noticed that Neon1, one of the hardest-working NBA 2K community members, redid the ratings and tendencies for every player and coach in the game.

As someone who had previously shelved NBA 2K9 out of frustration, I was initially excited to sit down and try this tweaked version of NBA 2K9 now that March Madness is in full bloom.

But after only a few games as my underachieving Grizzlies -- who have actually gotten a lot better, ratings-wise, since I last touched the game -- it became clear to me that the same opinion I had formed a few months ago still holds true:

NBA 2K9 is a mess, and no amount of slider tweaking or roster editing can save it.

So, in the first of a two-part series, I am here to explain why I have given up on NBA hoops this year, and I am also here to detail what needs to be improved in 2010.

Read More - Why I'm Done With NBA Basketball This Year: NBA 2K9

Game: NBA 2K9Reader Score: 8.5/10 - Vote Now
Platform: PS2 / PS3 / Xbox 360Votes for game: 72 - View All

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Member Comments

# 181 DC @ 04/09/09 10:42 AM

1. Pared do you think contesting the shot (not jumping) is effective?

2. How long of a window do I have to press LT and get the hands up animation from when I see the offensive player is about to shoot?

# 182 Pared @ 04/09/09 10:44 AM

Yeah, your player used to jump at a pump fake, and you were upset about that. And I agreed with you; He shouldn't.

Then everyone said he shouldn't buy the pumpfake but challenge the shot when locked on, using the one hand up animation. Boom, it's in the game this year.

But the 2k devs obviously don't listen or know anything about basketball.

# 183 DC @ 04/09/09 10:44 AM

# 184 Pared @ 04/09/09 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican


	1. Pared do you think contesting the shot (not jumping) is effective? 2. How long of a window do I have to press LT and get the hands up animation from when I see the offensive player is about to shoot?

1. Honestly, I don't think it's as effective as it should be. It depends on the shot. Challenging a shot only seems to happen if the players "hand" area impedes the shooter's face, or "vision." That's why the two handed defense feels useless at times.

2. I really don't know; I know it plays out if you're locked on and holding towards the shooter. At least that's how I do it. It could just occur regardless but when the ball handler shoots, that's what I do.

# 185 DC @ 04/09/09 10:55 AM

1. Does "proximity defense" still exist in this series? I remember back in 2K5 if Ben Wallace was NEAR you while you took a shot, the probability of the shot going in decreased

2. I think we need to come up with ways the "hand in face" animation can be more effective. I will think of something soon. You have any ideas? If proximity defense isn't there anymore then I think that needs to be incorporated into the hands in face animation

# 186 Pared @ 04/09/09 11:04 AM

I don't think proximity defense is in the game. It's pretty much just challenge the shooter's face.

I have a few ideas for defense to be more effective. I guess we'll just have to see what transpires.

# 187 HMcCoy @ 04/09/09 05:24 PM

DC...

Lock on considers you guarding the shot, no matter the position. You can really see this in the team-up mode, because the CPU gives you a pop up that says "good defensive position" when you're locked on to a shooter.

Proximity is almost meaningless in this game. Again, go to Association mode, sim about a half a season (so you can build up some development points) and do the "challenge shot" drill. You'll be amazed how many times the feedback will say "wide open" or "barely there" even though you are actually touching the shooter or jumping right in his face. the CPU is EXTREMELY picky when it comes to freelance shot challenging. Just lock on, trust me.

One caveat about lock on though...you can't challenge quick shots. It takes a second for the lock on icon to pop up, so if you're trying to quickly switch and defend a catch and shoot situation, go ahead and try to jump to block it, because by the time the lock on is available, the shot will be halfway through the net...

# 188 mars blackmon @ 04/09/09 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by o_capone


	this is a video game... too many people take this way to seriously... if you just hop on and play with the intention of having fun you will love it... but when you make it your life of course you will search for all the flaws and hate it...

No offense but this post makes absolutely no sense. To draw an analogy, one might go to the movies to see Spider-man 3 for the sole purpose of having fun......but after watching it they'll give critiques about what could have improved the film as well as the experience. We all do it.

So I really don't think the thread starter or anyone else with criticisms are "searching for any flaws". They're merely stating what they don't like about NBA 2K9 in hopes that there will either be some solutions from other posters or changes made in the future by the developers.

# 189 Behindshadows @ 04/09/09 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by o_capone


	this is a video game... too many people take this way to seriously... if you just hop on and play with the intention of having fun you will love it... but when you make it your life of course you will search for all the flaws and hate it...

Nothing fun about constantly getting beat because the cpu is hitting anything they throw up. It's a video game is a bunch of crap, it's a game that is suppose to mimic real life NBA Basketball, just as they have done every year. No exceptions when it comes to this game, especially since they come so far, only to be plagued with no defense A.I. and sliding across the court which has never been such a pain in a 2k basketball game. Basically the game stinks compared to 2k8 and 2k7 when it comes to gameplay.

# 190 HMcCoy @ 04/09/09 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by o_capone


	the good by far outweighs the bad...

# 191 DC @ 04/10/09 12:48 PM

Now this is just sad - http://www.2ksports.com/forums/showthread.php?t=215735

And also look at ROcBoys video with Gilbert

# 192 DC @ 04/10/09 05:07 PM

They shouldn't be going in at such a high rate. THe game needs to punish foolish behavior

# 193 DC @ 04/10/09 05:21 PM

Why would I do that? I don't play on that level

# 194 DC @ 04/10/09 06:50 PM

# 195 Artman22 @ 04/11/09 12:22 AM

All i can say is that NBA2k9 is playable but with many flaws. I really hope 2k10 is a lot more sim then this.

# 196 Rawdeal28 @ 04/11/09 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HMcCoy


	Defensive Fundamental #1 -- The Basic Defensive Stance Off-ball defenders don't crouch in real life, bro. They try to use their peripheral vision to watch the ball and their man at the same time...and are usually completely upright and shifting back and forth on their feet. I agree that the off-ball defensive animation doesn't always kick in, leaving the defender in the stupid idle stance, but that's eye candy. 2K's backdoor issues are an entirely unrelated to their stance...its the fact that they don't react quickly enough to their defender cutting, and ungodly lead-pass accuracy. I do wish off ball defenders sagged off more. My issue is that 2K doesn't shrink the floor at all, and weakside defense is way too tight. Defensive Fundamental #2 -- Guarding Off the Ball Ironically, in your video example, every defender is in-between the their man and the hoop when the cam switches to behind Baron. No one is on the high side. As a matter of fact, the reason the cutter was open is because Warrick stayed under the pick, and got stuck behind Gasol...and yes, Gasol did indeed try to help defend the basket. Glitchy? Meh, maybe...but we're probably still a few year away from having every motion that a body could go through in traffic mo-capped, though. That will be AWESOME, but I'm not going to ditch lovely videogame b-ball because they don't. That said, it takes some mighty powerful slider fixin to stop those infernal cuts to the basket. I agree that it takes way too much adjusting to get the CPU to actually take jumpers and run offense. I've found a nice set of sliders that eliminates it on Superstar, but I'm of the opinion that sliders are personal. These work for the way I play, and ymmv. Defensive Fundamental #3 -- Be Aware of Tendencies You can avoid bad switches by either controlling the center early in the defensive possession (so your wing guys don't do stupid stuff becasue they assume the guy you happen to be standing next to is who you're guarding), or pick up the PG before he crosses the timeline. Standing at the top of the arc waiting for the opponent PG to come to you easy peasy will get you some bad assignments if the play calls for him to set up on the wings. By the time you get over, someone else has picked him up and you now have issues. Its impossible to completely avoid mismatches, as it is in real life, especially in transition..but you can at least keep it at a tolerable level by being smart. Also, you can stop stupid CPU doubles in the 'pressure/double' screen, and still double good post defenders your self by bringing over the other big. I'm kinda glad they make the double come from the top, because lots of dudes cheesed the double in the past. Lazily jamming on the RB will get you burned now, as it should be. Switch the double teams to "never" for the bigs, or everyone if its a problem...Or did you do that already and its still a problem? Defensive Fundamental #4 -- Switching and Helping In that vid you called that an unnecessary switch, but what did you expect the CPU to do? Should the AI have anticipated Shaq getting it at the top and have his man pick him up at half court? Shaq has never been picked up that high...heck, he's never even stopped there...ever. Unless he's settin a screen, Shaq goes directly to the blocks. He does not pass Go or collect 200.00 dollars. Of Course Parker is going to pick up the totally unguarded ball handler, since Shaqs man was in the paint waiting for him. Perhaps the person using the Suns is a complete cheeser, and his stupidity should have been rewarded with Shaq catching on fire and doing a 720 dunk, because the very first time I see an MVP point guard toss the ball backwards to a trailing Shaq at the top so he can And-1 his way through traffic in real life, is the last time I watch basketball. I promise. The culprit here is the jerkiness you get with all of these animations. The CPU decided Bosh would contest it from the back since there were two deeper defenders, and his animation "yanked" him behind Shaq. I don't like those canned defensive reatcions either. I would have switched to Bosh, and hit the lunge sideways move with the d-stick. He probably would have gotten run over but it looks cool as hell...as does doing the "hands up" when my Cavs trap the ballhandler off the PnR. Still working on that. BTW, Shaqs dribble wasn't an isomotion, its the "between the legs/behind the back/gradually slow down" animation you sometimes get when the ball is on the perimeter and you come to a stop or quickly change directions. Everyone can do those and I agree 2K should limit that to good ballhandlers. I hate when Z does it occasionally...but then again, I don't handle the ball on the perimeter with bigs that often. I guess I'm saying that at some point, VC shouldn't be held responsible for stupid basketball, IMO. If he would have tried an actual Isomotion dribble, he would have dropped it 8 out of 10 times. I can barely do a simple back out with Pavlovic without coughing it up. Defensive Fundamental #5 -- Low-Post Defense Usually, if a guy is successfully pushed off the blocks, he just wont get the entry, and if he does, he'll throw it back out and re-post. So yes, almost all deep entry passes are to a guy no more than a step outside the paint. I do agree that any mediocre big in this game can get that position pretty easily though, made worse by the defenders inability to front the post. That doesn't make this unplayable, but I know what you mean. Its funny they patched the postup whereas now you can barely budge a guy on the backdown, after the same dude just Debo'd his way into position, lol. Offense: You must call your play as soon as the PG receives the inbounds. Right away, before they get set up with something else. If you wait until you get to the top to call it, yes, they are very sluggish to reposition...but if you call it early, they run to their spots immediately, and by the time you get across midcourt, they're ready. I dunno, I run alot of plays, and I haven't had this problem since the first month or so. Also you DO NOT have to stop completely inside the starting circle...you need only touch it or run near it. When Animations Attack If the animations were rigid, and didn't cancel, most players would be frustrated with the unresponsiveness. "Dude, in 2K your always locked in an animation!!!" is how that particular rant is usually expressed. IE, in your example, Rudy Gay started his layup animation before the dribble animation was complete. Well, yeah...the USER hit the shoot button one step inside the 3 line with no reguard to where his dribble was. If 2K held us accountable for that, this game would truly be unplayable. We'd complain that you can't start a layup until you're into the teeth of the D, or wail about how you have to watch animations play out before you can do anything. This forum would be up in arms if 2K punished us for sloppy "cancels" cuz thats what all of this stuff boils down to. The technology for completely hitch-less 10-man movement is a generation or two away fellas, and for right now, at least you have the responsiveness. I also wish they would make the court bigger, something we've all been begging for. The huge strides and glitchy animation transitions can get you form the arc to the bucket without completing a dribbe animation. Making the distance greater would help this alot. At the end of the day though, you can't even tell at full speed. You only notice the canceled animations being glitchy on replays. Same thing for Gasols sliding. What the hell was that jerky move once you faced up? Don't get me wrong, I've seen alot of sliding especially in the post...but can we take some responsibility for simply not being good at smoothly controlling the players? Bottom line, the AI decides what happens, and then the animations try to show that, not the other way around. For example, blocked shots. How many times has the ball went directly through your hand...or how many times have you seen a block where the guys hand was at least 2 feet away from the ball? The CPU has calculated the success or failure of the block with "behind the curtain" number-crunching based on whatever stats they use. Then the put it on the screen. The animation doesn't decide what happens, it's just showing you what the background calculations have determined happens. Success/failure of your passes, drives, shots...whatever...is all determined before you see a single polygon move. If the CPU calculates that a pass could make it from A to B based on distance, sliders and attributes...that pass is going to make it regardless of who it has to go through. I know, we all wish that the visualization could represent that calculation flawlessly, but again, the tech isn't there yet. I agree with alot of the stuff you complain about, but at the same time, some of the criticisms aren't very fair, and if you let these kill your experience thats fine...but don't mistake all of those for being screwups by 2K, but some things you just aren't good at. Yeah, the "No!!! My favorite game is flawless!!! You're just not doing it right!!!" take is homegrown OS cliche by now, but it is sometimes very true. I'm far from the best 2K player, but honestly...out of the dozens of "sim" players i've matched up with, I've only played 4-5 guys who truly know how to work these animations, and do the little things that make this game look amazing. 2K has combos too, lol. Things that override the glitches. Mo coming up the wing, tap LT for the step out, then immediately "y" and away from the basket into the stepback, then immediatly use the shot stick jumper which responds faster and makes the stepback jumper much smoother. That sequence looks so nasty. Being sim doesn't equal being good at making this game look smooth and pretty. There's a whole different level to 2K. One last thing, lock-on D challenges a shot without jumping, and the steal button contests layups..without stealing. Wha? Yep, if you time the steal button correctly, and you aren't right up on the layup-er, they will do a hard contest...sometimes its just a physical play on the ball...sometimes it's a block. Unfortunately, many times it will gives you the steal attempt, which is cheesy and overpowered, IMO, but sometimes you get really cool defense at the rim. Anyone who struggles on D should go to the drill "contest shot" in association mode. That thing shows you just how hard it is to get good defensive position without locking on.

one hell of a ******* post!

EXCELLENT

Quote:

Originally Posted by HMcCoy


	DC... Lock on considers you guarding the shot, no matter the position. You can really see this in the team-up mode, because the CPU gives you a pop up that says "good defensive position" when you're locked on to a shooter. Proximity is almost meaningless in this game. Again, go to Association mode, sim about a half a season (so you can build up some development points) and do the "challenge shot" drill. You'll be amazed how many times the feedback will say "wide open" or "barely there" even though you are actually touching the shooter or jumping right in his face. the CPU is EXTREMELY picky when it comes to freelance shot challenging. Just lock on, trust me. One caveat about lock on though...you can't challenge quick shots. It takes a second for the lock on icon to pop up, so if you're trying to quickly switch and defend a catch and shoot situation, go ahead and try to jump to block it, because by the time the lock on is available, the shot will be halfway through the net...

see that is what i dont like and exactly what i was saying before. i have had my defenders hand literally go through the shooters face..........swish!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Behindshadows


	Nothing fun about constantly getting beat because the cpu is hitting anything they throw up. It's a video game is a bunch of crap, it's a game that is suppose to mimic real life NBA Basketball, just as they have done every year. No exceptions when it comes to this game, especially since they come so far, only to be plagued with no defense A.I. and sliding across the court which has never been such a pain in a 2k basketball game. Basically the game stinks compared to 2k8 and 2k7 when it comes to gameplay.

i was with u up until that point. the game doesnt stink. just has some issues. and it is still way better than 2k8

Quote:

Originally Posted by totalownership


	For me the only reason for consoles are sports. Win or lose I just like to play sports. Football is my number one sport and we see where that has gone in the past few years. Basketball is my number 2 and I always thought 2K would come through for me and only get better but as the years go by the worse it's getting. So that leaves baseball as my number 3. Now when I gotta play the Show to get a pretty decent sim fashioned sport game then something is dead wrong. The Show is probably the best current sim sport on a console right now. But , ok I'm about to get controversial here, it's not that the Show is so FANTASTIC that it makes you want to slap your momma. It's because everything else is so lacking the Show can't help but look great. Don't get me wrong the Show is SOLID in what it does but there's nothing really "next level" "holy smokes I gotta sell some crack to get a PS3 and this game" "Hey sony take a pint of my blood please but just get me the game" great about it.

naw, THE SHOW is a great game no matter what. baseball isnt my number 1 sport either but i can clearly see how the game is so critically acclaimed.

to me nba2k and THE SHOW are great games.

# 197 ehh @ 04/11/09 10:49 AM

Since the college bball season ended last week I spent about two hours with 2K9 last night for the first time since November. Not gonna go on a long rant but let's just say 2K9 will never be seeing my PS3 again.

# 198 DC @ 04/12/09 11:03 AM

That is just sad

# 199 luv_mist @ 04/12/09 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by o_capone


	it sucked for both of you guys.. first lebron got sucked in to a lame animation trying to get around a screen, then he floated in the air for 5 minutes to block the shot lol... nate gets shots block a lot though because of his size...

What is the percentage of shots Nate gets block?? I could say the same thing about Ben Gordon who would be defended by taller guards. No offense but from jump shots, I don't think that Nate is block a lot because of his size as many would think. Maybe his close shots and layups but not shots like that on the outside. Could be wrong though.

# 200 luv_mist @ 04/12/09 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by o_capone


	thats because he is not gonna pull up for a jumper with a defender right there to block him like some people do when using him in the video game...

In all honesty, the game causes some of those stupid blocks and things. I haven't watched Nate's game but I know he doesn't get it smashed like that. Probably one of the harder players to block in the league due to his speed. In the video game, the computer will setup the block automatically like in that video that was posted. Too many times the computer would slow down that jump shot animation in order to screw the user over. Never see that problem on the computer's end. The jumpshot releases on this game are iffy because they are still to slow from the catch and shoot animation.

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