News Post

Why I'm Done With NBA Basketball This Year: NBA 2K9

11:53 AM - March 24, 2009 by RaychelSnr

If you have been paying attention to the community’s efforts to tweak NBA 2K9 during the past few months, you probably noticed that Neon1, one of the hardest-working NBA 2K community members, redid the ratings and tendencies for every player and coach in the game.

As someone who had previously shelved NBA 2K9 out of frustration, I was initially excited to sit down and try this tweaked version of NBA 2K9 now that March Madness is in full bloom.

But after only a few games as my underachieving Grizzlies -- who have actually gotten a lot better, ratings-wise, since I last touched the game -- it became clear to me that the same opinion I had formed a few months ago still holds true:

NBA 2K9 is a mess, and no amount of slider tweaking or roster editing can save it.

So, in the first of a two-part series, I am here to explain why I have given up on NBA hoops this year, and I am also here to detail what needs to be improved in 2010.

Read More - Why I'm Done With NBA Basketball This Year: NBA 2K9

Game: NBA 2K9Reader Score: 8.5/10 - Vote Now
Platform: PS2 / PS3 / Xbox 360Votes for game: 72 - View All

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Member Comments

# 221 DC @ 04/15/09 11:59 AM

Yes I DO believe that they have to have certain aracade elements in their game to sell records. I believe that.

# 222 spankdatazz22 @ 04/15/09 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican


	Yes I DO believe that they have to have certain aracade elements in their game to sell records. I believe that.

Yeah I didn't phrase that correctly. I think they do make an effort to make the game more appealing to a wider audience, but on some level that has to be expected. And would be expected of most games I would think

# 223 lasthour @ 04/15/09 02:06 PM

I say simplify the gameplay to give the game its fun back. I would rather have a game that played to each team's key strengths on offense and defense in say about ten categories. Turn the game into a lite chess match with believable plays, realistic stat control and BALANCED GAMEPLAY.

SF4, LOW, COD 4 in a basketball or football game for the WIN!

# 224 GSW @ 04/15/09 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spankdatazz22


	Yeah I didn't phrase that correctly. I think they do make an effort to make the game more appealing to a wider audience, but on some level that has to be expected. And would be expected of most games I would think

MLB The Show doesnt do that though.

# 225 spankdatazz22 @ 04/15/09 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by totalownership


	Well said DC well said on all points. Furthermore, or rather, specifically in MY case I've been attacking the game all the while people have been attacking ME. A few people here have made it a mission to do so. Up until now I've been pretty much ignoring it, for the most part. I don't think we want to go that route so I suggest everyone keep it about the game. If you're not adult enough to do that I suggest you move on. So let this be the last of the personal attacks. The last.

lol it was about the game - and your contradictions about it. As I said: if you hate it, fine. But implying the game has no redeeming value while trying to prove your point by saying you play the 5,6,7 times a day - because of friends - is a contradiction imo. All I did was point that out; it wasn't an attack. It's a message board; if you're going to make statements then you expect someone might respond to something you say

# 226 spankdatazz22 @ 04/15/09 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GSW


	MLB The Show doesnt do that though.

Not sure what that means. That every game needs to be the same? I would think the bottom line for all of these developers is to be profitable. From what I understand, NBA2K9 did well in terms of the units sold, better than it had in years previous. They seem to know what they're doing and have a grasp of what they're doing with the game. I understand it unnerves some people here because all of a sudden people expect reassurances or some sort of acknowledgement of a game's direction. As I've said, I guess because I'm not hardcore basketball fan enough I don't see this drastic "SIM to Arcade" turn some of you feel they've taken. I enjoy the game immensely, as I did last year's and the year before's.

If you were successful at doing something would you change simply because someone else told you to? Shouldn't they be at least given the chance to fail, instead of people assuming that will be the case? Haven't they earned the chance to fail? If The Show had an off year because of [something they did with the game] - haven't they earned the chance to fail? Of course no one wants to see any of them fail. But they've been making good decisions and progressing the game along nicely on their own. I would think it would earn them some benefit of the doubt

# 227 spankdatazz22 @ 04/15/09 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by totalownership


	We all do things for family and friends that we don't always want to do.

ummmm... okay lol

I don't necessarily agree w/the Forza 2 analogy. A true driving SIM is Gran Turismo. But many (including me) don't find Gran Turismo enjoyable because it's too sim. It's to the point where it's too realistic and no longer fun. Of course for some, that's what they want. And it's a popular game, no doubt. But not everyone wants that extreme sim experience. Forza's a good example of a game that has a lot of simulation elements, but isn't so much of a sim that it becomes overbearing imo.

As with The Show. I played the demo on my PS3 and you can feel the polish that went into the game. That said, I have more fun playing MLB2K9 - flaws and all. Perhaps because I'm not a big enough baseball fan to appreciate all the minute details they've put into The Show. Either way I'm just saying - I don't think everything needs to be essentially the same. There will be a market for The Show just as there's a market for MLB2K. Just as there's one for Forza and one for Gran Turismo

# 228 spankdatazz22 @ 04/15/09 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by totalownership


	They've worn out their chances starting around 2K7 or should I say 180 dollars ago.

Was it your cousin or your uncle that gave you NBA2K9

sorry, couldn't resist

# 229 Rocky @ 04/15/09 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GSW


	MLB The Show doesnt do that though.

If you think NBA2K9 hasn't changed since the last gen, than The Show hasn't changed AT ALL since the last gen. No reason why we should still be using the same dated and simplistic mechanics and control schemes that was used in the old gen. It is especially apparent online. However, the ease of the controls helps casual gamers immensely.

ALL games try to appeal to a broader audience. That's why they created sliders and 2KShare for us.

The main thing 2K9 is guilty of is band-aiding the defensive AI(which was MUCH worse last year) and not telling us what the sliders and adjustments do (simply bad PR).

# 230 GSW @ 04/15/09 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocky


	If you think NBA2K9 hasn't changed since the last gen, than The Show hasn't changed AT ALL since the last gen. No reason why we should still be using the same dated and simplistic mechanics and control schemes that was used in the old gen. It is especially apparent online. However, the ease of the controls helps casual gamers immensely. ALL games try to appeal to a broader audience. That's why they created sliders and 2KShare for us. The main thing 2K9 is guilty of is band-aiding the defensive AI(which was MUCH worse last year) and not telling us what the sliders and adjustments do (simply bad PR).

he was saying the company keeps it ARCADE liek to appeal to the masses.

and MLB The Show doesnt do that.

Your not hitting an unrealistic amoutn of homeruns, or stealing bases, or getting an insane amount of hits, and triples, or striking out a zillion guys in the Show to appeal to a broader base...

why would i buy the show then, id just play The bigs 2.

Liek i was tellin my man... I want NBA 2k to be a sim as it was my favorite basketball game/favorite game period thru the years... but its not getting to that point, nor have steps been made in the last 4 years to get to that point...

That is OKAY...weve had Inside Drive, and now NBA Live appears to be going in that direction..

both sides can be happy... just like MLB 2k9 fans, vs The Show fans.

just because i say its "ARCADE" doesnt mean im saying its a terrible game, or that its bad.. i just cant personally get in to it as much as i prefer more realism than "video game"...

# 231 spankdatazz22 @ 04/15/09 06:29 PM

Just wanted to clarify - I've tweaked MLB2K9 to play realistically so I get accurate hit/pitch counts. I don't enjoy slapping a zillion homeruns or stealing ten times a game. Nor do I enjoy 5pitch innings. It's 2K's approach to the game that's appealing. I don't know much about the accuracy of the batter walkups and stances, but I enjoy them and enjoy the various camera options they give. With NBA2K9, I've tweaked the sliders to give me realistic shooting percentages. I'm no different than DC in not wanting to see windmill dunks occur in traffic with frequency in games. But I'm not to the point where I'm counting the dunks to make sure they don't exceed the league average. I play the games because I want a realistic experience. But there are varying degrees between something being deemed SIM and something being deemed ARCADE imo, at least by the definition some are putting out there. I don't think it's an either/or issue.

# 232 DC @ 04/15/09 06:36 PM

But of course something that is as simple as holding a button for gas and releasing it off of turns for 30+ mins won't be fun. Sim or Arcade. You can't compare a racing game to basketball. Come on now

# 233 Rocky @ 04/15/09 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GSW


	he was saying the company keeps it ARCADE liek to appeal to the masses. and MLB The Show doesnt do that. Your not hitting an unrealistic amoutn of homeruns, or stealing bases, or getting an insane amount of hits, and triples, or striking out a zillion guys in the Show to appeal to a broader base... why would i buy the show then, id just play The bigs 2. Liek i was tellin my man... I want NBA 2k to be a sim as it was my favorite basketball game/favorite game period thru the years... but its not getting to that point, nor have steps been made in the last 4 years to get to that point... That is OKAY...weve had Inside Drive, and now NBA Live appears to be going in that direction.. both sides can be happy... just like MLB 2k9 fans, vs The Show fans. just because i say its "ARCADE" doesnt mean im saying its a terrible game, or that its bad.. i just cant personally get in to it as much as i prefer more realism than "video game"...

But what has NBA2K9 done to make the game more arcade? The flashy dunks problem was the worst in NBA2K7 and has gotten better each successive year.

I remember when the game first came out, people were having trouble getting to the rim and finishing with star players. People were having problems getting open shots. Having problems with the post game, etc.

You can say they made the game more accessible. With practice, you can now pull off those flashy dunks with Lebron. But hell, I don't even think they have made the game more accessible by today's standards (NHL 09 and MLB2K9 are the guilty culprits of this...making the game easier without fixing fundamental problems). I do think they have fundamental problems with defense and particularly passing that should be corrected.

# 234 GSW @ 04/15/09 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spankdatazz22


	Just wanted to clarify - I've tweaked MLB2K9 to play realistically so I get accurate hit/pitch counts. I don't enjoy slapping a zillion homeruns or stealing ten times a game. Nor do I enjoy 5pitch innings. It's 2K's approach to the game that's appealing. I don't know much about the accuracy of the batter walkups and stances, but I enjoy them and enjoy the various camera options they give. With NBA2K9, I've tweaked the sliders to give me realistic shooting percentages. I'm no different than DC in not wanting to see windmill dunks occur in traffic with frequency in games. But I'm not to the point where I'm counting the dunks to make sure they don't exceed the league average. I play the games because I want a realistic experience. But there are varying degrees between something being deemed SIM and something being deemed ARCADE imo, at least by the definition some are putting out there. I don't think it's an either/or issue.

i dont count the dunks or anything of that nature...nor would i ever do that.

but you cant call NBA 2k9 a "Simulation" game... its a realistic looking arcade game IMO... again nothing "WRONG" with that.. just as ive gotten older i want more...

I prefer a game that punishes me for playing unrealistically, and rewards me for playing the right way..(Ive played online vs people who are run and gun with the SPURS, the ROCKETS, Pistons, and basocally any other team...)

I want a game that rewards/punishes you for using that team those players in a capacity tht they play in in real life...not vice versa.

Thats what i mean when i say ARCADE.

NBA Jam, was over the top, but the basic premise is, every team was basically the SAME, just different player heads...Arcade...easy to pick up n play, very little depth.

so nba 2k9, yes you can tone down dunks and make realistic field goal percentages but the basic under lying truth is, you can pick the game up, having never played it and have succses...i dont want that i like a challenge/steep learning curve...and i want to feel rewarded when playing because i feel i have in-depth knowledge of the NBA game and its players.

Its not fun to me to get a rebound with jason richardson be able to cross up kobe then get a dunk...doesnt/wouldnt happen in real life at the frequency that it happens in the game, and un fortunatly id have to do extense tweaking to his ratings to fix it...(Arcade)

I want the game as is to clearly show that JR smith is not one of the best Sg's in the NBA because he can dunk and hit threes...hes inconsitent in real life and cant just get to the basket anytime he wants...in the game he can though (Arcade)

Thats just me though...

So as 2k is/was my favorite game i just want things that make it Arcade-like to go away, and be replaced by things that make it REALISTIC.

Im 100% positive if the game gets more relaistic people will still play it, even casuals...dont underestimate the casuals..Theres a reason why NBA Jam isnt being made anymore...It's not fun to ANYONE to play for long periods of time anymore.

# 235 spankdatazz22 @ 04/15/09 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GSW


	NBA Jam, was over the top, but the basic premise is, every team was basically the SAME, just different player heads...Arcade...easy to pick up n play, very little depth. so nba 2k9, yes you can tone down dunks and make realistic field goal percentages but the basic under lying truth is, you can pick the game up, having never played it and have succses...i dont want that i like a challenge/steep learning curve...and i want to feel rewarded when playing because i feel i have in-depth knowledge of the NBA game and its players.

Wow. I didn't get that you were reaching that much to make this "2K9 is ARCADE" point lol. So Live is ARCADE ('09 - I know people only want to talk about the future with the game)? It seems you're basically trying to fault the games for playing a certain way out of the box. I'm not a seamhead, but I can pick up The Show and have success - that doesn't make it less of a SIM. I may not be as knowledgeable as some here are regarding baseball, but I do have *some* knowledge of the game. If my daughter were to pick up The Show or NBA2K9 she'd likely have little to no success because she doesn't have a working knowledge of either sport. Really, trying to equate 2K9 to NBA Jam, NBA Street, or any other arcade game is ridiculous imo because you're trying to make an extreme distinction that a game is either/or SIM/ARCADE. I think that's why I didn't get where you were heading with The Show and your "Inside Drive/wait till next year for Live: are the only SIMs" comment.

# 236 spankdatazz22 @ 04/15/09 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by totalownership


	See now this is a great argument. I feel Forza 2 is more sim than GTP5 in just about every aspect. There's some things it does physics-wise that I think is off that Forza seems to do right. But this is a good debate about simplay. There's no debate that NBA 2K9 has gone further away from sim and has embraced some major arcade elements.

I didn't mean to imply that Forza 2 wasn't a simulation, because I feel it is. But I felt Gran Turismo is even more detailed with it's car customization options; in how I've read the lead developer is crazy about getting every detail about the cars in the game right. There have been a couple of Forza's released in the time since there was even one GT.

As far as 2K9 embracing arcade elements, I don't feel so. I think they've tried to make the game more authentic, tried to further distinguish players via attributes and individual dribble/dunk packages, they've worked to make the entire game experience feel like a real game from a presentation standpoint, etc. Online still has it's issues, but it's so much more playable than it was last year. They were the first to do online leagues and to my knowledge I don't think there's another sports game more customizable than 2K9 is (or it's top 2-3, at least). I just don't get why the game gets condemned as a whole for the few things some people don't like

# 237 GSW @ 04/15/09 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spankdatazz22


	Wow. I didn't get that you were reaching that much to make this "2K9 is ARCADE" point lol. So Live is ARCADE ('09 - I know people only want to talk about the future with the game)? It seems you're basically trying to fault the games for playing a certain way out of the box. I'm not a seamhead, but I can pick up The Show and have success - that doesn't make it less of a SIM. I may not be as knowledgeable as some here are regarding baseball, but I do have some knowledge of the game. If my daughter were to pick up The Show or NBA2K9 she'd likely have little to no success because she doesn't have a working knowledge of either sport. Really, trying to equate 2K9 to NBA Jam, NBA Street, or any other arcade game is ridiculous imo because you're trying to make an extreme distinction that a game is either/or SIM/ARCADE. I think that's why I didn't get where you were heading with The Show and your "Inside Drive/wait till next year for Live: are the only SIMs" comment.

i didnt call nba 2k9 a replica of nba jams, i said its a arcade game like nba jam... because all teams can be used in a similar manner with similar succses.

its easy to pick up and play.

and yea nba live is arcade too, but im not talking about live...live however has verbally come out and say they want to be a simulation game...so atleast they are putting there necks on the line and trying to go for the gusto.

again..nothign wrong with nba 2k9, its a good game but it is an arcade game...not over the top like nba jam and nba street were...but that doesnt mean its not "arcade".

And id liek to see you play MLB The Show on Legend/Hall Of Fame mode (no it doesnt cheat) and have continued succses.

I get what youre doing man and i appluad you youre trying to stick up for a good game.. but thats not changing the fact that its still an arcade game... its a really realistic looking arcade game though... thats whats so frustrating.

# 238 Rocky @ 04/15/09 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GSW


	i didnt call nba 2k9 a replica of nba jams, i said its a arcade game like nba jam... because all teams can be used in a similar manner with similar succses. its easy to pick up and play. and yea nba live is arcade too, but im not talking about live...live however has verbally come out and say they want to be a simulation game...so atleast they are putting there necks on the line and trying to go for the gusto. again..nothign wrong with nba 2k9, its a good game but it is an arcade game...not over the top like nba jam and nba street were...but that doesnt mean its not "arcade". And id liek to see you play MLB The Show on Legend/Hall Of Fame mode (no it doesnt cheat) and have continued succses. I get what youre doing man and i appluad you youre trying to stick up for a good game.. but thats not changing the fact that its still an arcade game... its a really realistic looking arcade game though... thats whats so frustrating.

I disagree.

If you play against people who play the game like it's a sim or hell, even the CPU even with all their cheese...I would say the game plays fairly sim like.

If you play it against gamers who play it like an arcade game, it's going to play arcade. That's every game.

# 239 spankdatazz22 @ 04/15/09 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GSW


	i didnt call nba 2k9 a replica of nba jams, i said its a arcade game like nba jam... because all teams can be used in a similar manner with similar succses. its easy to pick up and play. and yea nba live is arcade too, but im not talking about live...live however has verbally come out and say they want to be a simulation game...so atleast they are putting there necks on the line and trying to go for the gusto.

lol I knew that was coming; just didn't know how it would be worded. Either way, you feel 2K9 is arcade and everything plays the same, fine. I'm enjoying the game and don't feel frustrated as you do. Personally I love the way 2K's been able to distinguish playing with Kobe/Lebron/Wade, Iverson/Nash/Paul, Garnett/Duncan/Nowitzki, etc., love the variation I get with games, and can't imagine how someone could say the teams essentially play the same. But to each his own.

# 240 Rocky @ 04/16/09 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by totalownership


	No actually that's not every game. Play forza like an arcade and you'll hopefully be limping back to the pits, while getting dusted by someone who plays it sim. Play The Show like arcade and you'll never see a hit and get worked from someone who's playing it sim. Play this game like an arcade and you win. You play this game sim and you lose, play arcade and you win. Of course it all depends on the teams you pick but thats the point. A person who plays like an idiot should lose no matter which team they pick. Not this game.

1) That's not by design. That's people taking advantage of flaws in the game. The rapid, reaction times, pinpoint passes, some unstoppable ISO moves, and the inability to defend close baskets. Every game has people who take advantage of flaws or tricks in the game....The Show (after playing a top player), Fifa included.

If I want to play with the Spurs, should I really be forced to play a slow it down game just because they do so in real life. Sure, it shouldn't be advantageous to do so, but I clearly don't think you can force someone to play the way they don't want to play.

2) If you know the game well enough, you can beat 80% of arcade gamers by playing sim. Switching on defense, using the right combination of settings, and playing controlled basketball will beat hardened cheesers most of the time. That said, I would agree that it is too easy for arcade-like gamers to compete.

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