News Post

Why I'm Done With NBA Basketball This Year: NBA 2K9

11:53 AM - March 24, 2009 by RaychelSnr

If you have been paying attention to the community’s efforts to tweak NBA 2K9 during the past few months, you probably noticed that Neon1, one of the hardest-working NBA 2K community members, redid the ratings and tendencies for every player and coach in the game.

As someone who had previously shelved NBA 2K9 out of frustration, I was initially excited to sit down and try this tweaked version of NBA 2K9 now that March Madness is in full bloom.

But after only a few games as my underachieving Grizzlies -- who have actually gotten a lot better, ratings-wise, since I last touched the game -- it became clear to me that the same opinion I had formed a few months ago still holds true:

NBA 2K9 is a mess, and no amount of slider tweaking or roster editing can save it.

So, in the first of a two-part series, I am here to explain why I have given up on NBA hoops this year, and I am also here to detail what needs to be improved in 2010.

Read More - Why I'm Done With NBA Basketball This Year: NBA 2K9

Game: NBA 2K9Reader Score: 8.5/10 - Vote Now
Platform: PS2 / PS3 / Xbox 360Votes for game: 72 - View All

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Member Comments

# 281 DC @ 04/16/09 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benicio10


	But to sum this all up, 2K does need to communicate with us their design objectives for this game for 2 reasons... 1. it's becoming an industry standard, not just in gaming but all of the tech industry. 2. the hard core followers of this game (who want sim) are being turned off by the product.

#1 is key. You see it more and more each day. This is 2009. Companies reach out to their consumers through surveys, email, message boards, etc.

I don't think it is too much or wrong for us to want 2K to do the same.

# 282 Pared @ 04/16/09 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican


	COme on Pared, how does this sound. ...

We are arguing linguistics, but on a message board, your point comes across in the way you word it. Someone posted this and I thought it was hilarious:

I helped my Uncle jack off a horse.
I helped my Uncle Jack off a horse.

So if a dev. is reading YOUR comments, at face value, it would seem like the entire concept of help defense is terrible and that's simply not true. As you saw in the video, the basis is there; It just needs tightening up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benicio10


	But to sum this all up, 2K does need to communicate with us their design objectives for this game for 2 reasons... 1. it's becoming an industry standard, not just in gaming but all of the tech industry. 2. the hardcore followers of this game (who want sim) are being turned off by the product.

I'm sure they know this. However, it's not reason enough to warrant labeling them as "abandoning the sim gamer." If that was the case, the lead pass would be as effective as it has been in years past.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican


	Explain please...........Me using lock defense will trigger help?

If you're locked on, and your player gets "beat" (as the game sees it) then you get help. If you're not locked on, the defense tries it's best to compensate but obviously gets confused.

Another area where the game definitely needs work.

You can also use lock-on to call out your man on switches.

# 283 DC @ 04/16/09 02:19 PM

Quote:


	We are arguing linguistics, but on a message board, your point comes across in the way you word it. Someone posted this and I thought it was hilarious: I helped my Uncle jack off a horse. I helped my Uncle Jack off a horse.

You are gonna get me in trouble at work man

# 284 DC @ 04/16/09 02:20 PM

Quote:


	If you're locked on, and your player gets "beat" (as the game sees it) then you get help. If you're not locked on, the defense tries it's best to compensate but obviously gets confused. Another area where the game definitely needs work. You can also use lock-on to call out your man on switches.

Which brings up ANOTHER point.

Why am I finding out control related commands 6 months after the release. Can we get a manual PLEASE

# 285 slimm44 @ 04/16/09 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luv_mist


	What is the percentage of shots Nate gets block?? I could say the same thing about Ben Gordon who would be defended by taller guards. No offense but from jump shots, I don't think that Nate is block a lot because of his size as many would think. Maybe his close shots and layups but not shots like that on the outside. Could be wrong though.

Robinson 2% of his jumpers (2 and 3) and 7% of his close shots.
Gordon 2% of his jumpers and 18% of his close shots.
I'm assuming they have more midrange jumpers blocked than 3's but 82games.com doesn't differentiate.

# 286 Pared @ 04/16/09 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican


	You are gonna get me in trouble at work man Which brings up ANOTHER point. Why am I finding out control related commands 6 months after the release. Can we get a manual PLEASE

I thought you'd like that one.

I'm hoping we finally get the deep manual this game should already have.

# 287 GSW @ 04/16/09 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pared


	You're starting to sound like Hillary Goldstein. Yes, that annoying little chick from IGN. He has the Shaq test... take Shaq and shoot threes with him all game and see how many fall. Here's the thing that bothers me... remember when Duncan hit the 3 pointer to send the game to OT in the playoffs? If that happened in your game, would you immediately come to OS and complain how it should NEVER happen? There should be the ability, in a sports game, for the "impossible" to happen. The problem is... who the hell shoots 3's with Shaq? What you're asking is for the impossible to always be impossible. Vince should never be able to catch a reverse dunk off an inbound alley to win the game. The NBA and sports gaming is about the impossible. The Rays shouldn't have made the World Series last year. Kobe shouldn't be dropping 50+ points on 4 consecutive games. It shouldn't happen in a game until it happens in real life. And that's where a lot of the comments of sports gamers really annoy me. Guys that play a game, then say "C'mon that would never happen!" but they see amazing things happen all the time. And if it does happen in real life, there's an explanation for it. "Well, we all saw this one coming." No, you didn't. It's more about what the game is doing wrong than what it allows you to do right. There's a group of gamers that modify sliders, rosters, whatever, all year long because so and so "isn't possible." It's THAT gamer that I would hope these game developers never cater to. And this has nothing to do with the high FG%'s out of the box in 2k9, the lack of foot planting by the defense, the lack of fast breaks in Live '09, the supposed comeback AI in The Show... it's about what "tests" a sports game should be able to pass. This isn't the GMAT. It seems like I'm getting too old for some of the posts by "gamers" here.

youre bringing up duncan hitting a three in the playoffs.. and im saying him running around sprinting and spinnign in to the lane...

two totally different things man..

this isnt a "shaq tesT"... its the game.

You should be punished for doing unrealistic thing..like shooting threes with shaq (and you are)...you can still do it.. but youre punished...

The things i brought up you are not punished for.

so you missed me on whatever point you were trying to make there.

# 288 Benicio10 @ 04/16/09 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pared


	I'm sure they know this. However, it's not reason enough to warrant labeling them as "abandoning the sim gamer." If that was the case, the lead pass would be as effective as it has been in years past.

So one change negates all the other examples i brought up?

Again, we will continue to have these debates until 2K steps up and tells us, their hardcore audience, what direction their game is going. What is their mission statement?

You say you're sure you know they understand the need to communicate with us, yet in previous posts you didn't think they needed to. I have way more evidence to lead me to believe they're ignoring us, and don't want to confront us with the truth: that this game will never be a pure sim out of the box.

Call that sensationalist, but I think the slider people who help fix this game do more for the franchise than even the developers themselves, who ignore the same issues year after year.

# 289 Pared @ 04/16/09 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benicio10


	So one change negates all the other examples i brought up? Again, we will continue to have these debates until 2K steps up and tells us, their hardcore audience, what direction their game is going. What is their mission statement? You say you're sure you know they understand the need to communicate with us, yet in previous posts you didn't think they needed to. I have way more evidence to lead me to believe they're ignoring us, and don't want to confront us with the truth: that this game will never be a pure sim out of the box. Call that sensationalist, but I think the slider people who help fix this game do more for the franchise than even the developers themselves, who ignore the same issues year after year.

You can have your conspiracy theories. Nothing anyone can say outside of a developer can stop that.

I'm sure they understand where the genre is going but as long as they understand what they need to do, that's all that matters. The game I buy every year is what matters to me, not someone in a pink name telling me they "hear me." I don't need the reassurance. I don't need a mission statement. I don't need a weekly report.

But that's just me.

# 290 GSW @ 04/16/09 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by water777

# 291 ProfessaPackMan @ 04/16/09 03:18 PM

LMAO @ the random spam post.

# 292 Benicio10 @ 04/16/09 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pared


	You can have your conspiracy theories. Nothing anyone can say outside of a developer can stop that. I'm sure they understand where the genre is going but as long as they understand what they need to do, that's all that matters. The game I buy every year is what matters to me, not someone in a pink name telling me they "hear me." I don't need the reassurance. I don't need a mission statement. I don't need a weekly report. But that's just me.

That's not a conspiracy theory. The proof is in the dunk-fest of a game we get every year.

I do need re-assurance from the pink name because now I don't think 2K wants to make a sim anymore. And there are many hardcore followers of this game who are starting to feel the same way. It's not just DC and I.

How can you be confident they will suit your wishes of sim basketball when they haven't delivered yet on the issue of too many points inside the paint and too many crazy highlight dunks? It's the same issues year after year. No progress.

# 293 Pared @ 04/16/09 04:13 PM

Because I don't agree with you.

You say no progress when there certainly has been progress. Not to the level you obviously want, but progress nonetheless.

The problem here is that you want the game to be what you want it to be... And what that is is different from the next guy.

Just look at the thread asking "What is a simulation?" People can't even agree on that since it's such an abstract concept.

# 294 Rocky @ 04/16/09 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benicio10


	That's not a conspiracy theory. The proof is in the dunk-fest of a game we get every year. I do need re-assurance from the pink name because now I don't think 2K wants to make a sim anymore. And there are many hardcore followers of this game who are starting to feel the same way. It's not just DC and I. How can you be confident they will suit your wishes of sim basketball when they haven't delivered yet on the issue of too many points inside the paint and too many crazy highlight dunks? It's the same issues year after year. No progress.

Can't you easily adjust the crazy, unrealistic dunks? It doesn't take 30 seconds.

You can lower the PIP by adjusting the defensive settings and increasing the fouls. I never get more than half of the CPU team's PIP.

I'm not getting it. It's like complaining about having to drink out of a glass when you have a straw right next to the glass. Or having to eat food with your hands when you have a fork right next to your plate.

I do agree with DC. The help defense is broken, but so is every basketball game's in history. I do remember Inside Drive's being decent, though they still didn't have realistic rotations.

# 295 Pared @ 04/16/09 04:33 PM

NBA Live's help defense is much, much better.

The problem is the one on one defense is terrible.

# 296 GSW @ 04/16/09 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocky


	I do agree with DC. The help defense is broken, but so is every basketball game's in history. I do remember Inside Drive's being decent, though they still didn't have realistic rotations.

Just because it has never been done right doesnt mean that its supposed to be excused though.

I know thats not what you are syaing directly... but thats what it looks like.

Also: yea you can edit all that but what if im playing online?..then my pool of people to play against is relegated to people on OS...what if i want to play at midnight and nobody is Online...

I'm personally tired of having to wait for sliders or rosters to be done every year to play a semi realistic game...should be realistic from jump street, thats what i feel like im putting my money up for...until this year when i finally realized its not a simulation game

The sliders shouldn't be a crutch for the games weaknesses...they should be there to tweak any little things that might need changing..i don't really know of any other game Ive played where people are literally re-rating every player in order for the game to play correctly...

# 297 Benicio10 @ 04/16/09 05:03 PM

Thank you, GSW. He summed it up right there, Rocky.

If 2K knows dunking isn't realistic, then why don't they tone it down when the next game comes out?

Pared, do we both have the same interpretation that NBA 2K9's dunks out of the box are outrageous and unrealistic? I hope we do.

# 298 Rocky @ 04/16/09 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pared


	NBA Live's help defense is much, much better. The problem is the one on one defense is terrible.

I disagree. Live's help defense is misleading. You drive one way and a spot on the opposite corner is GUARANTEED to be open. This kinda happened in NBA2K8 as well and to tone it down, they didn't rotate the guards or leave anyone open. Two different approaches, but both are flawed.

Realistic help D in NBA2K series can't happen until the passing engine is reworked IMO.

# 299 Stickz24 @ 04/16/09 08:36 PM

There are some issues with the game that are beyond the techincal decision making - match-up, playcalling aspects. I'm mostly addressing the game play on-line.

Offline, I'd just adjust the sliders until they are a good fit -- but theres something about playing the game without adjusting the sliders that gives people some satisfaction. If the intent was to depend on the sliders from the beginning - levels of difficulty would not be necessary. Why have pro, allstar or hof -- if you can simply tweak the sliders for those difficulties -- maybe even link sliders with those diffuculties ... I digress.

Maybe if the random matches were set up on hof difficulty -- hardcore gamers might get some satisfaction. I think the biggest thing 2k can do to make their games better is individualize fatigue. As opposed to prorating it. Yao ming would have a heart attack trying to full court press all quarter .. let alone all game. Even Kobe and Lebron dont dunk allll game -- by making sure their fatigue is adjusted according to how much they are used -- as opposed to how long they are in the game -- you'll keep some of the OD masters honest. Also -- the stop on complete stop on fast break issue seemed like something that could be easily fixed -- combine that with tighter fatigue mechanics -- you've kept the full court cheesers at bay, forced a more cognitive game -- I have never built a game so I don't know how easy those things are to execute -- but what I've seen from 2k tells me they can do this -- but then, it seems they mess it up for 1 year and give you a classic the next -- 2k10 will likely prep us for a flopped 2k11, then ofd course -- you'll buy 2k12 hoping 2k11's mistakes were fixed -- then 2k13 will flop and 2k14 will be better --- easy marketing strategy for half a decade. We'll figure it out in 2k15.

Just bring the lobbies back so I can play my boys on hof difficulty -- or have enough chances to figure out and dispose of the cheesers that come my way. This posting thing is harder than I thought. I'll be back.

# 300 Zihin @ 04/16/09 11:31 PM

Interesting thread.

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