NBA 2K16 News Post

An In-Depth Look at the Changes to the NBA 2K16 Ratings System

09:41 PM - August 21, 2015 by Steve_OS

Mike Stauffer, AKA Beds, has just posted an in-depth look at the changes to the NBA 2K16 ratings system. It is definitely an interesting approach that will generate plenty of discussion. Read it over and post your thoughts.

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# 81 DC @ 08/22/15 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MP.Trey


	Is Steve Kerr the greatest 3 point shooter of all time because he has the highest percentage? Shawn Bradley has the highest block percentage of all time, GOAT shot blocker? Not that Rodman is so farfetched but just saying there's more to basketball than stats, and Moses is the greatest from the tape I've seen.

But "tape" can't be used as factual evidence when people see different things on tape. You have to use numbers. That is all a game is, a bunch of numbers and probability kicks in.

re: 3Pt

Not at all. But that is why we have "modifiers" with the shot ratings.

Height
Consistency
Badges
Off-Dribble

Steve Kerr's record breaking season for 3PT % should be used as the prototype when assigning 3PT ratings.

# 82 MP.Trey @ 08/22/15 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DC


	But "tape" can't be used as factual evidence when people see different things on tape. You have to use numbers. That is all a game is, a bunch of numbers and probability kicks in. re: 3Pt Not at all. But that is why we have "modifiers" with the shot ratings. Height Consistency Badges Off-Dribble Steve Kerr's record breaking season for 3PT % should be used as the prototype when assigning 3PT ratings.

Couldn't disagree more about basketball being nothing but numbers and probability. You have to watch tape to see HOW a player does something to truly understand what they're good and not good at. Just looking at Kerr's percentages, he shoots it better than Curry, but Curry by far takes more shots and more diffcult shots and is a much more impressive shooter. I think 2k does well with rating players but acting like numbers are the be all end all is pretty ridiculous imo.

# 83 DC @ 08/22/15 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MP.Trey


	Couldn't disagree more about basketball being nothing but numbers and probability.

A game = A basketball VIDEO GAME. Not "basketball."

And yes, attempts should be factored into shot ratings

# 84 ronyell @ 08/22/15 10:00 AM

ON THE WHOLE - this will be one of the single greatest improvements to resolve longevity & gameplay issues

ON A SMALLER SCALE - if this is executed properly, we will see a MUCH quicker project release on our part...

# 85 dwayne12345 @ 08/22/15 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfsolo


	I don't know if it is in MyGM, but Sim's blog post mentioned that in MyLeague they have added both a player regression rate slider, and quote:

That's awesome. Didn't notice that was added. Peak Start/End has been in the game for years as a hidden rating (red mc users are aware of it). Opening that up to us to be easily edited will allow me to fix my disagreements via roster editing actually.

# 86 ffaacc03 @ 08/22/15 10:16 AM

Great to hear, have been a propponent of this for a long time ... hopefuly, the rest of the team that handles the sim stats engine has been able to tune the results so they are in line with these changes.

As usual, we need everything editable, from the oncourt (gameplay) and offcourt (sim stats engine and roster building/trades logic) fronts.

# 87 fatboirob @ 08/22/15 10:18 AM

Out of all the news released so far, this has my attention the most. Hopefully it translate well in the gameplay.

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# 88 DEEBOFIOUS @ 08/22/15 10:30 AM

Finally 2K thinks about ratings comparisons that involve current and past players. This is good, but how can you start with Dennis Rodman as a rebounding example when Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain are in the game? These are the 1st 2 players that should receive 99 offensive/defensive rebounding ratings. The Worm was great but NOT 99 great. 95 yes but NOT 99.

# 89 JKSportsGamer1984 @ 08/22/15 10:39 AM

I love this change & it's long overdue. Kudos to 2K!

# 90 VDusen04 @ 08/22/15 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEEBOFIOUS


	Finally 2K thinks about ratings comparisons that involve current and past players. This is good, but how can you start with Dennis Rodman as a rebounding example when Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain are in the game? These are the 1st 2 players that should receive 99 offensive/defensive rebounding ratings. The Worm was great but NOT 99 great. 95 yes but NOT 99.

As mentioned previously, I think there's a lot of room for debate there. Chamberlain and Russell played at a time where there were, at its peak, close to 150 rebounds to be had each game. Rodman's era provided around 84. His rebounding percentages far exceed both Chamberlain and Russell across the board. That is to say, if Rodman had played in their era, there's a good bet he would have averaged more than 27 rebounds a night.

# 91 eko718 @ 08/22/15 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trackball


	...Did he just call Dennis Rodman the best offensive rebounder of all time? Uh, don't get me wrong, he's top five, but I still think Moses Ma-- Wait, this is the former bedwardsroy19?...Well, shoot, now I don't know WHAT to think. Well, whatever. Here's to hoping that improving your free throws in MyCareer doesn't automatically make you a better three-point shooter. Obviously looking forward to that news.

Seems more like he's saying Dennis Rodman had the highest single season number for offensive rebounding since they started recording stats in 1973 and that is the standard by which Offensive Rebounding in this game is measured. Probably the best metric to use would be a per 48 minute model or Offensive Rebounding %(which accounts for possessions while on the floor), in which either case, the all-time highest number for that is Dennis Rodman in 1994-1995.

Moses Malone may have been a more consistently high O Rebounder year after year, and that's fine. His ratings however, will likely(or should) reflect his stats for the particular season in which he is represented in the game, same for Rodman. So the 84-85 Moses Malone is probably the one we'll see, and that year he had one of the lower rebounding rates of his career. And just because Rodmans' 1994-1995 year is the standard, doesn't mean every year Rodman should have a 99 for Offensive Rebounding if his stats that year don't permit.

# 92 eko718 @ 08/22/15 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goffs


	So this is geared toward online play judging from the YouTube comment. What about offline players? Will player tendencies be touched so the cpu players act like their real life counterparts?

Until they really dig in to tendencies, the ratings mean very little, at least offline like you pointed out. Ratings reflect ability, Tendencies drive AI behavior. I hope this is a part of the overhaul.

# 93 PippenAintEasy @ 08/22/15 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEEBOFIOUS


	Finally 2K thinks about ratings comparisons that involve current and past players. This is good, but how can you start with Dennis Rodman as a rebounding example when Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain are in the game? These are the 1st 2 players that should receive 99 offensive/defensive rebounding ratings. The Worm was great but NOT 99 great. 95 yes but NOT 99.

You're kidding right? Rodman grabbed 19 rebounds a game at a height of barely over 6'6.

When Wilt grabbed 27 a game, each team missed 65 shots a game on average, that's 130 possible rebounding opportunities per game.

When Rodman grabbed 19 a game, each team missed 46 shots a game, allowing 92 possible rebounding opportunities per game.

So Wilt grabbed 27/130 rebounds a game (20.7% of available rebounds) and Rodman grabbed 19/92 per game (20.6% of available rebounds). Now consider the fact that Wilt played 47 mpg to Rodman's 40 mpg, and Rodman's rebound rate goes up to grabbing an absurd 26.2% of rebounds he was on the floor for.

TL;DR: You're wrong.

# 94 VDusen04 @ 08/22/15 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedream2k16


	no debate needed unless you want to for fun. Rodmans advanced stats wee recorded and the other two werent.

No worries. Just for the sake of knowledge, many advanced rebounding statistics can be recorded after an event has occurred, since they're mostly calculations involving rebounds, team rebounds, and minutes - all statistics that existed during Russell and Chamberlain's era. Of those advanced statistics, Rodman emerges as the frontrunner by a healthy margin in each category. Here is a link with more detail: http://skepticalsports.com/tag/wilt-chamberlain/

# 95 ojandpizza @ 08/22/15 10:57 AM

This is cool but dumb at the same time. For one stats are inflated due to the pace of the game regressing every year, therefor they can't really accurately be depicted by comparing someone now against someone 30 years ago.

I don't like the idea of only ONE player being able to top a rating scale. I love how you take an all time great and compare the rest after him, but no reason someone like Rodman AND Moses can't both be 99 offensive rebounders. The having one guy thing doesn't really make things accurate.

Also comparing offensive rebounding (just the sample stat) now to someone 30 years ago based on statistic production isn't accurate. Approximately 20 more shots taken per game in the 80's which opens up much more rebounding opportunities. Not to mention the majority of those shots coming closer to the rim back then, which usually yielded more rebounds for the big men than today's long shot long rebound style.

And this trickles down the farther you go. The reason Wilt and Bill could snatch up 50 rebound games. Speaking of Bill, who's to say he's not a better offensive rebounder than Rodman? Impossible to know under different rules and eras. The never played each other. This new formula would be MUCH improved if you topped out one player from each era. You can't truly make the claim that player A is better than player B at something if they never played against each other, or even the same era.

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# 96 stillfeelme @ 08/22/15 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEEBOFIOUS


	Finally 2K thinks about ratings comparisons that involve current and past players. This is good, but how can you start with Dennis Rodman as a rebounding example when Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain are in the game? These are the 1st 2 players that should receive 99 offensive/defensive rebounding ratings. The Worm was great but NOT 99 great. 95 yes but NOT 99.

There are no stats for offensive rebounds for their era. They did average more rebounds per game but they played in an era that had more possessions.

Wilt's team shot 112 FGA per game in his best rebound year
Rodman's team shot 84 FGA per game in his best rebound year.

Wilt's team shot 39 FT's/g
Rodman team shot 19FT's/g

Wilt played 47MPG damn just crazy
Rodman played 40MPG

In short Wilt was a great rebounder that had more rebounding opportunities. There is no way to compare offensive rebounds because there is no data for Wilt.
Check back a few pages someone posted a good link that suggest that Rodman had a greater TRB% than them. I not too worried about them giving Rodman the 99 I am sure they probably have Wilt Russell in the high 90's anyway.

I am glad that they will have the current guys all lowered and rated the same against themselves which should and will bring the overalls down.

# 97 bedwardsroy19 @ 08/22/15 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSOR24


	I think it's stupid that an entire ratings system is based on something so subjective. I would take advanced stats into consideration more than consensus opinions about players who played in easier eras. The ratings should be relative to all the players CURRENTLY in the league so there aren't as many variables.

All of the benchmarks are determined, by advanced stats (and other data if advanced stats weren't available at that time). Rodman was just an example to help explain conceptually how the system works.

# 98 Poke @ 08/22/15 11:15 AM

Loving it! As a slider creator this is sweet music to my ears! In real life players work hard day in and day out on the court to put up numbers except the rare days when someone just has one of those days the basket is like an ocean. This just makes it that much more realistic to have to work to score 30. As the game is now, without a good slider set almost anyone can average 25-30 PPG

# 99 eko718 @ 08/22/15 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedream2k16


	how will these ratings change during the nba season?

It seems that the same scale used to determine the ratings in the first place, should be used to determine them during the season. In other words, how the stats currently during the season compare to the standard for that particular rating category.

# 100 Da_Czar @ 08/22/15 11:50 AM

If the responses here tell me anything. It is that no matter what anyone does everyone has a better way to do it concerning rosters.LOL.

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An In-Depth Look at the Changes to the NBA 2K16 Ratings System