MLB 12 The Show Pitch Repertoires Corrections Thread

[seanjeezy]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Pitch Repertoires Corrections Thread

One can easily see you did a whole lot of work on this, figuring out pitch movement, etc. I find it very interesting that Brooksbaseball calculates speed differently than fangraphs or texasleaguers, very interesting indeed.

The one thing I would have preferred you do is lump them by teams instead of first name. But, I still love what you did, and still appreciate what you did. Man, that was lots of work and doing it so fast is amazing. Look what you did in two weeks and SCEA...

Well, thank you very much for the time and effort you put into giving us such a gem

The spreadsheet can be sorted by teams, it took me a good 10 minutes to figure this out:

First click on view and change to list mode

If you click on "Team" it will sort by team name in alphabetical order (Angels, Astros, etc.)

I think a cooler feature is that if you click "all" under team name, you can view players on a specific team only, so if i click on the Mariners, the sheet will only show Mariners players

I know I promised you guys 1 day tops (LOL) but two weeks ain't that bad either

[LanteriX]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Pitch Repertoires Corrections Thread

Reposting this from Mavs' thread for you to take a look at sean, as far as Control ratings are concerned:

I find that SCEA's BB/9 ratings are solid for most pitchers, so what I do is use the pitch that has the highest strike %, and give that a rating a few points above what their BB/9 rating is. Then adjust downwards for each pitch that is a lower strike %. Tweak until all the pitches combined average out to the pitcher's BB/9 rating, while maintaining the correct increments.

Examples:

Tim Lincecum

BB/9 = 62

Slider K% = 65, Rating = 67
4FB K% = 64, Rating = 66
2FB K% = 61, Rating = 63
CH K% = 59, Rating = 61
CU K% = 55, Rating = 57

Average control rating = 62.8

Zack Greinke

BB/9 = 81

4FB K% = 68, Rating = 87
2FB K% = 64, Rating = 83
SL K% = 62, Rating = 81
CU K% = 60, Rating = 79
CH K% = 56, Rating = 75

Average control = 81

It's not an exact science, but I feel like it gives a little bit more accurate of a representation of pitcher's command over pitches, by rating off their best controlled pitch and scaling down from there, using their walk tendency to dictate how much control they have.

[Cavicchi]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Pitch Repertoires Corrections Thread

The spreadsheet can be sorted by teams, it took me a good 10 minutes to figure this out:

First click on view and change to list mode

If you click on "Team" it will sort by team name in alphabetical order (Angels, Astros, etc.)

I think a cooler feature is that if you click "all" under team name, you can view players on a specific team only, so if i click on the Mariners, the sheet will only show Mariners players

I know I promised you guys 1 day tops (LOL) but two weeks ain't that bad either

Yes, I did as you suggested and it works as intended. I know this is going to be controversial, but how did you come up with a slurve for Kimbrel instead of a slider? I think I've read articles where some call it a slurve and some call it a slider.

[AUTiger1]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Pitch Repertoires Corrections Thread

Yes, I did as you suggested and it works as intended. I know this is going to be controversial, but how did you come up with a slurve for Kimbrel instead of a slider? I think I've read articles where some call it a slurve and some call it a slider.

Because it really is a slurve. It's not a straight silder nor a straight curve. All you've got to do is what how the pitch moves.

[seanjeezy]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Pitch Repertoires Corrections Thread

Yes, I did as you suggested and it works as intended. I know this is going to be controversial, but how did you come up with a slurve for Kimbrel instead of a slider? I think I've read articles where some call it a slurve and some call it a slider.

I'd say Craig Kimbrel owns the weirdest pitch in all of baseball

There are a couple of methods to determine what is a slider:

pitch speed - a typical slider is 5-8 mph slower than a fastball, some guys have slow sweeping sliders, but those are really rare

RPM - Sliders generally have an RPM under 1000, anything higher is pushing curveball/slurve range

vertical movement - Sliders typically have vertical movement in the 20-30 inch range, curveballs usually have vertical movement in the 40-60 inch range, which indicates topspin

Kimbrel's breaking ball only fits into one of these categories, Brooks actually lists the pitch as a curveball and for good reason - check out this grip:


610x.jpg



Unfortunately, the Knuckle Curve in-game does not act like Kimbrel's, therefore the most logical choice would be a slurve, since its a mish-mash of a curveball and a slider

[Cavicchi]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Pitch Repertoires Corrections Thread

How about power-curve. I read a few articles suggesting it could be a power-curve:

reference to power-curve along with slider http://www.fantasybaseball365.com/ar...ion-no-70.html

Kimbrel calling it a curve and article refers to it more like a power-curve and also suggests slurve http://capitolavenueclub.com/?p=5287

[Cavicchi]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Pitch Repertoires Corrections Thread

I forgot to ask about the pitchers with just two pitches, such as Kimbrel, Downs, Harden, Marmol, etc. The game will not allow us to give just 2 pitches. What is to be done there? What are you going to do?

[seanjeezy]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Pitch Repertoires Corrections Thread

I forgot to ask about the pitchers with just two pitches, such as Kimbrel, Downs, Harden, Marmol, etc. The game will not allow us to give just 2 pitches. What is to be done there? What are you going to do?

probably just give them a pitch that is similar, like an extra fastball or breaking ball; I don't like giving pitchers a mandatory changeup if they don't have one, much rather give them a 2-seam or a RFB if possible, in Kimbrel's case, you can give him either a 4SB or a sweeping curve, just give them very low control ratings so he doesn't use them over his primary and secondary pitches

[Cavicchi]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Pitch Repertoires Corrections Thread

probably just give them a pitch that is similar, like an extra fastball or breaking ball; I don't like giving pitchers a mandatory changeup if they don't have one, much rather give them a 2-seam or a RFB if possible, in Kimbrel's case, you can give him either a 4SB or a sweeping curve, just give them very low control ratings so he doesn't use them over his primary and secondary pitches

An extra pitch with zero movement, such as 4SB with 0 if they have a RFB or RFB with 0 if they have a 4SB, or a breaking pitch with 0 movement?

I wish they would allow us to edit pitch types so that only 2 would be shown.

Also, what about speed for that extra pitch?

[seanjeezy]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Pitch Repertoires Corrections Thread

An extra pitch with zero movement, such as 4SB with 0 if they have a RFB or RFB with 0 if they have a 4SB, or a breaking pitch with 0 movement?

I wish they would allow us to edit pitch types so that only 2 would be shown.

Also, what about speed for that extra pitch?

Try to make it as similar to one of the pitches as possible, except for the control rating

If a pitcher has a 4SB, give them a RFB with 0 movement, it will still move a little bit, but not much

If a guy has a RFB with 90 movement for example, give him a 2SFB with 70 movement, they will look similar visually in-game

I'm not totally sure about this, but I think the 4SB movement is related to whiff rates. Last year Vinnie Pestano's 4SB had the highest % of whiffs in the majors at 38.66%, so theoretically if you give Kimbrel a 4SB (his graphs show he did throw a number of pitches with <5 inches of movement), you take his whiff % of 32.41 and divide it by 38.66 to get an 84 movement rating

[Cavicchi]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Pitch Repertoires Corrections Thread

Try to make it as similar to one of the pitches as possible, except for the control rating

If a pitcher has a 4SB, give them a RFB with 0 movement, it will still move a little bit, but not much

If a guy has a RFB with 90 movement for example, give him a 2SFB with 70 movement, they will look similar visually in-game

I'm not totally sure about this, but I think the 4SB movement is related to whiff rates. Last year Vinnie Pestano's 4SB had the highest % of whiffs in the majors at 38.66%, so theoretically if you give Kimbrel a 4SB (his graphs show he did throw a number of pitches with <5 inches of movement), you take his whiff % of 32.41 and divide it by 38.66 to get an 84 movement rating

That's interesting about 84 for movement based on whiffs. Did you know Kershaw's slider produced the most whiffs of any LHP in the majors last year? Yet, the movement of his slider is nothing to speak of, nor is the speed. I'm not suggesting his movement rating is wrong, just that whiffs do not necessarily correlate with movement.

[AUTiger1]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Pitch Repertoires Corrections Thread

I'd say Craig Kimbrel owns the weirdest pitch in all of baseball

There are a couple of methods to determine what is a slider:

pitch speed - a typical slider is 5-8 mph slower than a fastball, some guys have slow sweeping sliders, but those are really rare

RPM - Sliders generally have an RPM under 1000, anything higher is pushing curveball/slurve range

vertical movement - Sliders typically have vertical movement in the 20-30 inch range, curveballs usually have vertical movement in the 40-60 inch range, which indicates topspin

Kimbrel's breaking ball only fits into one of these categories, Brooks actually lists the pitch as a curveball and for good reason - check out this grip:


[ATTACH]43166[/ATTACH]



Unfortunately, the Knuckle Curve in-game does not act like Kimbrel's, therefore the most logical choice would be a slurve, since its a mish-mash of a curveball and a slider

That's what makes Kimbrel damn near impossible to hit.

[Cavicchi]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Pitch Repertoires Corrections Thread

That's what makes Kimbrel damn near impossible to hit.

Yes, but the real problem is how to make him like that in the game. I've pitched with Strasburg who has a slurve, and that slurve can be hit by CPU batters. I looked at Kimbrel's curve/slurve/slider chart showing how he gets ks with it. I don't think you can get the same results pitching with it as he does in the game. Maybe raising speed to 99 mph would help. Yes, a 99 mph slurve

[seanjeezy]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Pitch Repertoires Corrections Thread

That's interesting about 84 for movement based on whiffs. Did you know Kershaw's slider produced the most whiffs of any LHP in the majors last year? Yet, the movement of his slider is nothing to speak of, nor is the speed. I'm not suggesting his movement rating is wrong, just that whiffs do not necessarily correlate with movement.

In-game, the 4-seam fastball is straight as an arrow no matter how many points you put into movement. Why put a movement rating if visually it makes not difference? A couple of years ago there was a thread about how it was harder to square up a 4-seam fastball with 99 movement compared to 0 movement, or how 99 movement fastballs seemed to have more late life to them. It's all speculation since none of us work for SCEA or have heard a concrete explanation as to what 4-seam movement represents, but what I do know is that whiffs do have a small correlation with movement - tell me what's easier to hit, a 95 mph fastball straight as an arrow or a 95 mph fastball with 14 inches of armside run? Lol I just compared Joba Chamberlain to David Price

[Cavicchi]

Re: MLB 12 The Show Pitch Repertoires Corrections Thread

In-game, the 4-seam fastball is straight as an arrow no matter how many points you put into movement. Why put a movement rating if visually it makes not difference? A couple of years ago there was a thread about how it was harder to square up a 4-seam fastball with 99 movement compared to 0 movement, or how 99 movement fastballs seemed to have more late life to them. It's all speculation since none of us work for SCEA or have heard a concrete explanation as to what 4-seam movement represents, but what I do know is that whiffs do have a small correlation with movement - tell me what's easier to hit, a 95 mph fastball straight as an arrow or a 95 mph fastball with 14 inches of armside run? Lol I just compared Joba Chamberlain to David Price

In theory this is true, but not with regard for Kershaw's slider. Kershaw's slider does not have lots of movement, or lots of speed. Yet, his slider produced the most strikeouts of any LHP in the majors. It wasn't movement, and it certainly wasn't speed, but it worked! I believe around half, over 100, of his ks were by slider.

I read an article about Kershaw where the author said Kershaw's "hard slider" was or would be more effective than a sweeping slider, which I assume he was saying a slider with lots of movement. Anyway, in the game, Kershaw will not get half or more of his strikeouts with his slider, because the game doesn't understand how Kershaw does it with that 83-84 mph so-so movement slider. I think the game gives more to those with lots of speed and perhaps lots of movement--but that is not always the case in real baseball; enter Kershaw