Dual Archetypes Confirmed... Thoughts? Combinations?

[howardphillips214]

Re: Dual Archetypes Confirmed... Thoughts? Combinations?

I dunno man. I’ve played over 800 walk on games at Center. Yeah the undersized ones can sometimes beat me down court in transition for a couple easy buckets. But most of the time I can either trigger an animation to run beside them, spam steal to catch up or my teammates aren’t idiots and actually pick him up until I get back. On the other hand, I destroy them on the glass and I find it way easier to trigger insta-dunks and favourable animations on offence against them.

Trust me, i understand everything you're saying. But you're not getting it. I'm not talking about winning individual battles. I'm talking about the war. There's no way, even as a light 7'3 can you run 94 feet with me consistently. You can try and box me and if i don't come down with it, I'm damn sure beating you down court to match your 2 points. If my teammates are back to stop the break, I'm not letting you get easy position on me every play, i WILL get stops. How are you effective on defense if I'm scoring before you cross half court?

If a half court set i will lose out a lot of the time. Pump fakes morphing me off you, i tip your shot,you get it back and score. It's cool. But I'm telling you I'll win the match up more often than not. If your team knows how to exploit the match up, great. If they don't, and you're struggling to get it going, I'll feast.

[Thrustie]

Re: Dual Archetypes Confirmed... Thoughts? Combinations?

Trust me, i understand everything you're saying. But you're not getting it. I'm not talking about winning individual battles. I'm talking about the war. There's no way, even as a light 7'3 can you run 94 feet with me consistently. You can try and box me and if i don't come down with it, I'm damn sure beating you down court to match your 2 points. If my teammates are back to stop the break, I'm not letting you get easy position on me every play, i WILL get stops. How are you effective on defense if I'm scoring before you cross half court?

If a half court set i will lose out a lot of the time. Pump fakes morphing me off you, i tip your shot,you get it back and score. It's cool. But I'm telling you I'll win the match up more often than not. If your team knows how to exploit the match up, great. If they don't, and you're struggling to get it going, I'll feast.

I don’t doubt you’ll outscore me but I think you’re underestimating how many extra possessions my team will gain due to my rebounding and how many fast break points I create with my outlet passes that lead to easy buckets. The war is more than who out scores who.

Like I said, your easy transition buckets only happen if nobody else picks you up. Even a 20 speed difference only amounts to 1 to 1.5 seconds down the court. Probably less if I’m steal spamming. And I’m not convinced you’ll be able to do much against me in the half court either.

I wish speed meant more and that size differences were more noticeable but in my experience they simply aren’t.

[howardphillips214]

Re: Dual Archetypes Confirmed... Thoughts? Combinations?

I don’t doubt you’ll outscore me but I think you’re underestimating how many extra possessions my team will gain due to my rebounding and how many fast break points I create with my outlet passes that lead to easy buckets. The war is more than who out scores who.

Like I said, your easy transition buckets only happen if nobody else picks you up. Even a 20 speed difference only amounts to 1 to 1.5 seconds down the court. Probably less if I’m steal spamming. And I’m not convinced you’ll be able to do much against me in the half court either.

I wish speed meant more and that size differences were more noticeable but in my experience they simply aren’t.

You're right, you know. Let ANYONE else on your team guard me in transition. LMAO, what? You think guards are going to D me up consistently? Even your PF it's probably either too slow or undersized. But EVEN THEN, i play predominantly PG, so if a 2 on 1 happens and he guards the paint, I'll make the extra pass for 3. And if i comes off I'm getting the rebound and killing your teammates with a putback slam. And you'll probably JUST BARELY make it back in time to try and block me.

You apparently don't know me. I can play 1-5 at any time. I have competent players at every position. I know hoops. I make smart plays most of the time.

Extra possessions only happen if we're missing. Typically i run with a squad and i know how they play. If I'm not exploiting my match up, damn sure someone else is. I don't have to be the leading scorer, but as long as I'm playing good defense getting back, good things happen. You're insinuating that you're rebounding advantage is going to lead your team to victory. If i can beat you in EVERY OTHER aspect of running big (pnr, blocks, steals, ****... Spacing the floor) i help my team in more ways than you.

I've been getting better at playing the weak side anyways. My dude was straight murdering people in park last night using length and speed. If you're not pulling me away from the basket with a legitimate 3pt shot, your teammates won't score very well at the cup. I may get dusted if you've got position, but you're teammates better beware the giant who moves like a guard on defense.

Craziest thing about this build is i can guard 1-5 pretty comfortably too. The length and speed makes up for my 48 lateral quickness. Pure point forwards and stretch bigs don't even give me too many issues.



Literally no downside to playing pure athletic. None.

[Thrustie]

Re: Dual Archetypes Confirmed... Thoughts? Combinations?

You're right, you know. Let ANYONE else on your team guard me in transition. LMAO, what? You think guards are going to D me up consistently? Even your PF it's probably either too slow or undersized. But EVEN THEN, i play predominantly PG, so if a 2 on 1 happens and he guards the paint, I'll make the extra pass for 3. And if i comes off I'm getting the rebound and killing your teammates with a putback slam. And you'll probably JUST BARELY make it back in time to try and block me.

You apparently don't know me. I can play 1-5 at any time. I have competent players at every position. I know hoops. I make smart plays most of the time.

Extra possessions only happen if we're missing. Typically i run with a squad and i know how they play. If I'm not exploiting my match up, damn sure someone else is. I don't have to be the leading scorer, but as long as I'm playing good defense getting back, good things happen. You're insinuating that you're rebounding advantage is going to lead your team to victory. If i can beat you in EVERY OTHER aspect of running big (pnr, blocks, steals, ****... Spacing the floor) i help my team in more ways than you.

I've been getting better at playing the weak side anyways. My dude was straight murdering people in park last night using length and speed. If you're not pulling me away from the basket with a legitimate 3pt shot, your teammates won't score very well at the cup. I may get dusted if you've got position, but you're teammates better beware the giant who moves like a guard on defense.

Craziest thing about this build is i can guard 1-5 pretty comfortably too. The length and speed makes up for my 48 lateral quickness. Pure point forwards and stretch bigs don't even give me too many issues.



Literally no downside to playing pure athletic. None.

First, you’re SEVERELY overrating the effect of speed on your character. Even if you’re rocking 20 speed over me, it’s not giving you 5 seconds to run plays before I make it back down the court. That’s simply false. Nobody needs to “stop” you. All they need to do is prevent you from getting the pass for an easy score or slow you down for 1 second for me to catch up. Not every transition is a mismatch. There’s 8 other guys on the floor. And if you’re not underneath the hoop with me trying to get the board, there’s a good chance I’m the one with the ball and not your team.

Just like extra possessions only happen if you’re missing, your fast break dunks only happen if we’re missing. The point is moot. You run with a squad, that’s great. I’m envious. I run alone and still hold a .688 win percentage in walk-on primarily because I typically win my matchup. I’m not arguing if your squad is better than me and some randoms. I’m not even arguing that your build might not be better for the way your squad runs. I’m simply saying the meta is 7’3 for a reason - because it has more advantages than smaller centers do.

I think Pure Athletic is a great build. I just think a 7’3 Pure Athletic is better than a 6’11 Pure Athletic, discounting skill.

My size doesn’t handicap me in all the ways you seem to think it might. You can make plays? So can I


Blocks? Steals? Blocks are even easier when your taller.



The handicaps for being huge aren’t as prevalent as you think they are/want them to be.

[howardphillips214]

Re: Dual Archetypes Confirmed... Thoughts? Combinations?

I get it, dude. I REALLY do. LMFAO you act like every match up i go against, just about, isn't a 7'3. I HAVE a 7'3 and the reason i NEVER use him is speed, plain and simple. He's SO slow. And even on that guy, yeah I'll grab rebounds and can kick it up, but that **** is so boring. You're never in any play on the break.. You're hardly ever back on defense fast enough, and while in the half court there's nothing to do except set screens and sit directly under the basket.

I'd MUCH rather be nimble than this giant blob of gross.

I hated this guy when i made him, thought he was too small.. Then i got his attributes maxed and started getting badges and I'm actually having fun again.

We can argue this all day. Point of the matter is the game is supposed to be fun. You can play the meta, that's cool. But if you run into me, better be on your Ps and Qs!

[Thrustie]

Re: Dual Archetypes Confirmed... Thoughts? Combinations?

Oh I won’t argue that being your size would be more fun. No question. Being a giant slow guy is boring. I played a 6’11 GC last year and it was fun - especially in Park. But I found it really frustrating in Pro Am, especially in the half court. I want them to make 7’3 guys REALLY slow. I know you say they’re slow but they can still move relatively quickly in the half court and get still get explosive dunk animations a lot of time. I get crazy chase down Lebron animations all the time and I can recover from jumping on a pump fake almost instantly. Their needs to be more penalties for being max size.

Haha if you run with a squad, I hope I don’t run into you in walk on. I’m sure I would get exposed more for being big if I played against a coordinated team.

[howardphillips214]

Re: Dual Archetypes Confirmed... Thoughts? Combinations?

Oh I won’t argue that being your size would be more fun. No question. Being a giant slow guy is boring. I played a 6’11 GC last year and it was fun - especially in Park. But I found it really frustrating in Pro Am, especially in the half court. I want them to make 7’3 guys REALLY slow. I know you say they’re slow but they can still move relatively quickly in the half court and get still get explosive dunk animations a lot of time. I get crazy chase down Lebron animations all the time and I can recover from jumping on a pump fake almost instantly. Their needs to be more penalties for being max size.

Haha if you run with a squad, I hope I don’t run into you in walk on. I’m sure I would get exposed more for being big if I played against a coordinated team.

Lol, i wouldn't consider us "coordinated".. I've done the whole 5 out thing and I'm not a fan. If we were running real sets, that may be interesting, but we don't try that hard.

It's funny tho because the squads in walk on that TRY to run the 5 out or 1 on 1 ball get done by 30 plus on the regular against us. And most of the time we're just shooting the **** and having fun.

Go into team tho and those teams just don't miss.

I'll take the dregs of walk on any day.

[howardphillips214]

Re: Dual Archetypes Confirmed... Thoughts? Combinations?

So just to be dumb... Lol we went to the walk on with four 6'10 players all athletic first and me at the center and we were CLOWNING. LMFAO

I got a few screens, but I'm lazy.

First game i got worked a bit, not gon lie. I had 14-12 to my Mans 25 and 15. The difference was my 2blocks and two steals to his none then also i was like 6/8 from the floor and he was 14/21. He seemed around my height, i didn't see the match up. I'm assuming slashing rebounder.

Second game we went up against two 7'3 bigs with me at the 5 and a 6'10 post scoring athletic. My man was a rebounding athletic and he didn't have a rebound through 3quarters, i had 8. He quit at the 4th and i ended up with 16. Another double double but in the teens again.

Last game we lost a 6'10 and picked up a 6'4 pg slasher first to maintain the slasher line up. It didn't go as smoothly, but i was matched up on a 69ovr 6'9 slashing rim protector........ Dude got destroyed. Finished 18-18 with 4 blocks and we blew them out in the second half.


All in all, my point was proven in full tonight. As stated: the combination of speed, height, and vertical is undeniable. If your team is smart, you can run a full transition offense damn near no sweat in the walk on.




We thinking of running the full athletic in team. Lol

[Yesh2kdone]

Re: Dual Archetypes Confirmed... Thoughts? Combinations?

Too much sexual tension between Howard and Thrustle

[Thrustie]

Re: Dual Archetypes Confirmed... Thoughts? Combinations?

Too much sexual tension between Howard and Thrustle

My wife is pregnant and not in the mood. I’m frustrated, my dude.

[redsfan4life]

Re: Dual Archetypes Confirmed... Thoughts? Combinations?

I can get 20 boards in games with my point forward in walk on. Moral to the story is anything works in walk on. Being an undersized center will get you murdered in high level comp pro am games though. So the build ultimately is only going to disappoint you if you play on the ranked Pro Am scene.

[howardphillips214]

Re: Dual Archetypes Confirmed... Thoughts? Combinations?

I can get 20 boards in games with my point forward in walk on. Moral to the story is anything works in walk on. Being an undersized center will get you murdered in high level comp pro am games though. So the build ultimately is only going to disappoint you if you play on the ranked Pro Am scene.

Real talk, we want to create a team and only play with 6'10s and me. I really think we could kill people. Lol

[ILLSmak]

Re: Dual Archetypes Confirmed... Thoughts? Combinations?

First, you’re SEVERELY overrating the effect of speed on your character. Even if you’re rocking 20 speed over me, it’s not giving you 5 seconds to run plays before I make it back down the court. That’s simply false. Nobody needs to “stop” you. All they need to do is prevent you from getting the pass for an easy score or slow you down for 1 second for me to catch up. Not every transition is a mismatch. There’s 8 other guys on the floor. And if you’re not underneath the hoop with me trying to get the board, there’s a good chance I’m the one with the ball and not your team.

Just like extra possessions only happen if you’re missing, your fast break dunks only happen if we’re missing. The point is moot. You run with a squad, that’s great. I’m envious. I run alone and still hold a .688 win percentage in walk-on primarily because I typically win my matchup. I’m not arguing if your squad is better than me and some randoms. I’m not even arguing that your build might not be better for the way your squad runs. I’m simply saying the meta is 7’3 for a reason - because it has more advantages than smaller centers do.

I think Pure Athletic is a great build. I just think a 7’3 Pure Athletic is better than a 6’11 Pure Athletic, discounting skill.

My size doesn’t handicap me in all the ways you seem to think it might. You can make plays? So can I


Blocks? Steals? Blocks are even easier when your taller.



The handicaps for being huge aren’t as prevalent as you think they are/want them to be.

Haha the win percentage is impressive. I’ve been losing by 40 seems like every time. Stuff makes you mad at life, watching dudes get uncontested corner fast break threes over and over. Then I switch to a wing and we get killed on the boards.

Terrible shots, turnovers cuz people pass me the ball when I’m trying to get in position... at this point I’m like dude just shoot it, I have way more chance of getting it than if you try to throw it to me on a cut. Then dudes break out 3 v 0, we get down by fifteen, everyone starts raging and end up losing by 30. Losing by 30 in a 5 min game is some uninstall level stuff even if it’s “not your fault.” Stuff makes you wanna go play L*ve.

-Smak

[redsfan4life]

Re: Dual Archetypes Confirmed... Thoughts? Combinations?

Real talk, we want to create a team and only play with 6'10s and me. I really think we could kill people. Lol

Prepare for 5 out and a 7'3 center relentlessly scoring at will on you then. You could have fun up until like elite 4-5 or so. But the good teams will just systematically tear you apart with a lineup like that.

[Yesh2kdone]

Re: Dual Archetypes Confirmed... Thoughts? Combinations?

My wife is pregnant and not in the mood. I’m frustrated, my dude.

Sounds like you've been doing too much Thrustieing in your own time. Congrats dude.