Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on release

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  • Smirkin Dirk
    All Star
    • Oct 2008
    • 5178

    #601
    Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

    I lower it to 20.


    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
    2022 'Plug and play' sim roster (XBX)

    Comment

    • Rawdeal28
      Swiitch U? lol
      • Oct 2007
      • 7407

      #602
      Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

      Originally posted by Smirkin Dirk
      I lower it to 20.


      Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
      The jump shot defense strength release slider right?

      Sent from my SM-A205U using Tapatalk
      "on hoping there is a PSN flash sale before Valentine's Day"
      Man there are no flashers... now what are we going to do for vd
      I'm sure there's plenty of prostitutes you could pay if you really want vd.
      yea but will they take psn cards
      Depends on what area of a hooker you would use to redeem them.

      lol

      Comment

      • Smirkin Dirk
        All Star
        • Oct 2008
        • 5178

        #603
        Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

        Originally posted by Rawdeal28
        The jump shot defense strength release slider right?

        Sent from my SM-A205U using Tapatalk


        And gather. Both teams


        Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
        2022 'Plug and play' sim roster (XBX)

        Comment

        • ChaseB
          #BringBackFaceuary
          • Oct 2003
          • 9844

          #604
          Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

          Will be running a two-part series on this topic today in the afternoon. Thanks for all the input and both articles will re-direct back to this thread so continue to use this thread to talk about this topic (like adults).

          There are many words written (hence why it's two parts), so I apologize in advance if you don't like reading.
          I won't ask for Christmas or birthday gifts if you subscribe to the Operation Sports Newsletter (Not Just Another Roster Update). I write it, and it hits your inbox every Friday morning (for freeeeeee). We also have an official OS Discord you can now join.

          Comment

          • Rawdeal28
            Swiitch U? lol
            • Oct 2007
            • 7407

            #605
            Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

            Originally posted by Smirkin Dirk
            And gather. Both teams


            Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
            You know I've never thought of putting them both that low but I'm going to try it. I'll report back after a few games.

            Also, I concur that the pick and roll defense is much worse than when the game first came out. For me it's always the roll man. There are times where it is played decently but then there's times where he's absolutely wide open continuously and they make no adjustment to stop it and I can get 14 16 points in a row.



            Sent from my SM-A205U using Tapatalk
            "on hoping there is a PSN flash sale before Valentine's Day"
            Man there are no flashers... now what are we going to do for vd
            I'm sure there's plenty of prostitutes you could pay if you really want vd.
            yea but will they take psn cards
            Depends on what area of a hooker you would use to redeem them.

            lol

            Comment

            • Smallville102001
              All Star
              • Mar 2015
              • 6542

              #606
              Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

              Originally posted by Rawdeal28
              You know I've never thought of putting them both that low but I'm going to try it. I'll report back after a few games.

              Also, I concur that the pick and roll defense is much worse than when the game first came out. For me it's always the roll man. There are times where it is played decently but then there's times where he's absolutely wide open continuously and they make no adjustment to stop it and I can get 14 16 points in a row.



              Sent from my SM-A205U using Tapatalk
              I have not tried 20 with those 2 sliders but I have been trying 25-30. At default like ever game I was sub 45% shooting and like half the time sub 40%. I think may end up at 27 for both.

              Comment

              • ChaseB
                #BringBackFaceuary
                • Oct 2003
                • 9844

                #607
                Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

                Part 1 and Part 2 are now up. They link to this thread. I will also update alabamarob's OP in this thread just to put these links there as well.

                Again, thanks to everyone for contributing in the thread.
                I won't ask for Christmas or birthday gifts if you subscribe to the Operation Sports Newsletter (Not Just Another Roster Update). I write it, and it hits your inbox every Friday morning (for freeeeeee). We also have an official OS Discord you can now join.

                Comment

                • alabamarob
                  MVP
                  • Nov 2010
                  • 3340

                  #608
                  Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

                  Originally posted by ChaseB
                  Part 1 and Part 2 are now up. They link to this thread. I will also update alabamarob's OP in this thread just to put these links there as well.

                  Again, thanks to everyone for contributing in the thread.
                  hell of a write up Chase. i agree with 99 percent of what was said.
                  1. If the defensive options worked there could be no legitimate complaint from anyone. You could make your off ball defenders guard however you want.

                  2. I still don’t understand how if the “comp” guys are going off ball anyway, they can’t just either user the corner guy to keep him from helping. Or keep the big in the proper/realistic defensive coverage. Keeping Capela at the ft line is bogus, and making the player drop from the corner seems to be a realistic solution to prevent people from playing defense that way.

                  3. I still think its a bug. I will hold out hope.

                  I appreciate the article
                  Psn: Alabamarob
                  Xbox: Alabama Rob

                  Youtube: 2k Hawks

                  Settings I play on.
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                  Comment

                  • amioran
                    Rookie
                    • Oct 2019
                    • 71

                    #609
                    Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

                    Originally posted by Rawdeal28
                    I thought that slider was the answer to my prayers but I guess not. Year after year one of my constant problems with 2K shooting is that I can never make any decently contested shots even with good shooters. Because other than 2k21 all CPU defenders hug everyone on the perimeter so unless you're wide open jump shots aren't really going in.

                    I guess the only thing to mess with is the jump shot defense strength release slider. Usually I only lower that to about 45 or 44.
                    Yeah. We REALLY need from 2K a slider that affects making % of contested jump shots, as we have for contact shots in the paint. Even if Coverage Impact Timing worked without affecting the timing window bonus for open shots it would still not be an ideal solution because anyway the making percentage is not affected, only the timing window is. This means, practically, that only if you nail the timing window perfectly (executing a green release) a contested shot will go in, since the percentage making of contested shots is so little by default that practically no contested shot can go in unless you green it (even badges like Deadeye and Blinders really only affect the timing window and not the making percentage per se, so very few contested shots that aren't green can be made). This also means that using Real % instead of shot timing will turn contested shots almost impossible to make (since Real % doesn't use timing window) unless you lower the jump defense sliders (that's the only way right now to simulate making percentage for contested shots).

                    The default gameplay is clearly made with Park/Rec in mind, not to simulate real NBA basketball. We desperately need many more sliders from 2K to tailor the experience to sim basketball (other sliders missing are for example stepbacks/hopshots making %, Post moves making %, stamina related making percentages, moving shots % and so on an so forth).

                    I'm fine that 2K on default tailors the experience for Park/Rec but at least they should give us the tools to actually redesign the gameplay to be best suited for NBA basketball.

                    P.S: I also discovered recently that Shot Coverage Impact (and probably also Timing, albeit that one is much more difficult to test properly) works exclusively for the User, for the CPU it does absolutely nothing at all. You can put it even to 0 for the CPU and they will make open shots exactly as before.
                    Last edited by amioran; 10-18-2021, 03:00 PM.

                    Comment

                    • vannwolfhawk
                      MVP
                      • Jun 2009
                      • 3412

                      #610
                      Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

                      Originally posted by ChaseB
                      Part 1 and Part 2 are now up. They link to this thread. I will also update alabamarob's OP in this thread just to put these links there as well.

                      Again, thanks to everyone for contributing in the thread.
                      Well written and good read! Hopefully this helps bring some fixes at some point soon.

                      Originally posted by alabamarob
                      1. If the defensive options worked there could be no legitimate complaint from anyone. You could make your off ball defenders guard however you want.
                      Wrong. That helps all users yes, but it doesn’t solve the issue I have while playing against my CPU opponent. I’m at the mercy of 2k having proper help, sliders working, and them attaching it to ACE for the cpu to play good defense against me.
                      Last edited by vannwolfhawk; 10-18-2021, 03:11 PM.
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                      http://www.nextplayhoops.com

                      Comment

                      • 49UNCFan
                        MVP
                        • Aug 2010
                        • 2460

                        #611
                        Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

                        Thanks Chase! Hopefully we get a solution because I was addicted pre patch. Easily the best 2k hands down pre patch
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                        • AIRJ23
                          MVP
                          • Apr 2021
                          • 2804

                          #612
                          Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

                          Originally posted by amioran
                          Yeah. We REALLY need from 2K a slider that affects making % of contested jump shots, as we have for contact shots in the paint. Even if Coverage Impact Timing worked without affecting the timing window bonus for open shots it would still not be an ideal solution because anyway the making percentage is not affected, only the timing window is. This means, practically, that only if you nail the timing window perfectly (executing a green release) a contested shot will go in, since the percentage making of contested shots is so little by default that practically no contested shot can go in unless you green it (even badges like Deadeye and Blinders really only affect the timing window and not the making percentage per se, so very few contested shots that aren't green can be made). This also means that using Real % instead of shot timing will turn contested shots almost impossible to make (since Real % doesn't use timing window) unless you lower the jump defense sliders (that's the only way right now to simulate making percentage for contested shots).

                          The default gameplay is clearly made with Park/Rec in mind, not to simulate real NBA basketball. We desperately need many more sliders from 2K to tailor the experience to sim basketball (other sliders missing are for example stepbacks/hopshots making %, Post moves making %, stamina related making percentages, moving shots % and so on an so forth).

                          I'm fine that 2K on default tailors the experience for Park/Rec but at least they should give us the tools to actually redesign the gameplay to be best suited for NBA basketball.

                          P.S: I also discovered recently that Shot Coverage Impact (and probably also Timing, albeit that one is much more difficult to test properly) works exclusively for the User, for the CPU it does absolutely nothing at all. You can put it even to 0 for the CPU and they will make open shots exactly as before.
                          Can you Just turn up the contested shot success slider? That’s what I did and I left the defensive sliders alone on 50. It seems to have helped a bit. Still too hard to make shots but I have it at 56, so not crazy high. It’s definitely brought some balance at least. Further, you can lower the CPU contest shot tendency. I think those two are the best sliders to focus on when it comes to making contesteds.

                          Comment

                          • Smallville102001
                            All Star
                            • Mar 2015
                            • 6542

                            #613
                            Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

                            Originally posted by amioran
                            Yeah. We REALLY need from 2K a slider that affects making % of contested jump shots, as we have for contact shots in the paint. Even if Coverage Impact Timing worked without affecting the timing window bonus for open shots it would still not be an ideal solution because anyway the making percentage is not affected, only the timing window is. This means, practically, that only if you nail the timing window perfectly (executing a green release) a contested shot will go in, since the percentage making of contested shots is so little by default that practically no contested shot can go in unless you green it (even badges like Deadeye and Blinders really only affect the timing window and not the making percentage per se, so very few contested shots that aren't green can be made). This also means that using Real % instead of shot timing will turn contested shots almost impossible to make (since Real % doesn't use timing window) unless you lower the jump defense sliders (that's the only way right now to simulate making percentage for contested shots).

                            The default gameplay is clearly made with Park/Rec in mind, not to simulate real NBA basketball. We desperately need many more sliders from 2K to tailor the experience to sim basketball (other sliders missing are for example stepbacks/hopshots making %, Post moves making %, stamina related making percentages, moving shots % and so on an so forth).

                            I'm fine that 2K on default tailors the experience for Park/Rec but at least they should give us the tools to actually redesign the gameplay to be best suited for NBA basketball.

                            P.S: I also discovered recently that Shot Coverage Impact (and probably also Timing, albeit that one is much more difficult to test properly) works exclusively for the User, for the CPU it does absolutely nothing at all. You can put it even to 0 for the CPU and they will make open shots exactly as before.
                            I disagree about the shot coverage impact for the CPU. I have it at like 43 for CPU and this miss more open shots than at 50 for sure.

                            Comment

                            • amioran
                              Rookie
                              • Oct 2019
                              • 71

                              #614
                              Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

                              Originally posted by Smallville102001
                              I disagree about the shot coverage impact for the CPU. I have it at like 43 for CPU and this miss more open shots than at 50 for sure.
                              I'm sorry but it's simply randomness (as the timing for the CPU has an amount of randomness in it that varies greatly from situation to situation and game to game). Put the slider at 0 for the CPU and you will see immediately that it doesn't work. That low the CPU shouldn't be able to make any excellent release almost at all from three outside of extremely good shooters (since the timing window would be too low) yet they can still make greens if left open with the same consistency as before (taking randomness in consideration) even with B shooters (try to make a three with a 0 Shot coverage on HoF with a B shooter for yourself and you will see how difficult it actually is to make an excellent release even wide open).

                              If you then want even more confirmation that it does nothing turn just after the slider to 100 (now the CPU should be able to green almost every open shot as the timing window will be huge) and you will see clearly that it doesn't work since yet again they miss open shots exactly as before.
                              Last edited by amioran; 10-19-2021, 01:06 AM.

                              Comment

                              • amioran
                                Rookie
                                • Oct 2019
                                • 71

                                #615
                                Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

                                Originally posted by AIRJ23
                                Can you Just turn up the contested shot success slider? That’s what I did and I left the defensive sliders alone on 50. It seems to have helped a bit. Still too hard to make shots but I have it at 56, so not crazy high. It’s definitely brought some balance at least. Further, you can lower the CPU contest shot tendency. I think those two are the best sliders to focus on when it comes to making contesteds.
                                I don't know if I understand correctly what you are saying. Are you talking about the Contest Shots tendency slider? That certainly influences how much you are contested but it's not really the same as effecting the % making of contested shots. There's no "Contested shot SUCCESS" slider right now, that's all the point.

                                We don't have a real slider that governs the making % of contested shots (as you have for contact shots in the paint). Even a slightly contested shot (less than 10%) right now has a much lower (extremely lower) percentage of success than a open shot unless you green it. That's not consistent with the NBA and so the only real way to resolve the issue is to actually lower how strong a contest actually is (either by the defensive sliders or also by the contest shot tendency) but that's not the same as actually changing the % of making a contested shot. We have this possibility for layups and inside shots (the Contact Shot slider) but we don't have it for Jump shots atm.

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