Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on release

[Smirkin Dirk]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

Is the help in the room with you right now?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Operation Sports mobile app

I have video.

[ChaseB]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

If y'all want to put something together with some generally agreed upon high-level stuff going on right now with the D (aka alabamarob if you wanna send me some notes and video(s) then hit me up in DMs).

I'm spread a little thin right now since a lot of updates are happening for sports games this week so I have not played any 2K really the last couple weeks, but since this topic remains very popular on here, happy to give it some more life on the front page this week if it remains wonky for y'all and there's some general consensus that has been reached of a now vs. then breakdown of the D.

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

I just Re read through this thread and man it is pretty comical. Talk about roller coaster! It’s fixed, no it’s not, I’m seeing help, now I’m not, helps back, oh no it’s not, it’s back again, oh but it’s bad. Lmao! And I was just as guilty! Dirk said it earlier and the saga continues but at 1 point said we fixed it and was ready to tackle climate change. Lol

Anyways, I also hopped on and played a little bit tonight too. I could immediately tell it was updated again (in either the last 2 days since I played last) as it felt super slow. I can always tell with the movement if it was updated. It’s the first thing I can feel and notice. I had to turn the game speed up to 60 to get it to feel good. It was awful and felt like a completely different game. Everything was bad so no need to explain it all. What was crazy though is 3-4 days ago after the update the movement felt the best I felt. Now that’s gone. The dribbling also didn’t feel as crisp. I feel like they are trying to band aid it somehow and slow everything down to help the d now. But that’s making it worse.

But after reading back through this thread and playing tonight we have had a patch and like 5 updates in a week and a half. That’s part of the issue is every day it’s a different game and it’s getting worse every update. Reading this thread confirms it as every day was different. Different console updates at different times, etc. I’m not sure if they are tweaking sliders behind the scene but I feel the difference every time I turn the game on. I’m sure they are trying to fix their issues but it’s ruined the core game from launch. Before for me, after editing rosters and playing with sliders I was having a ton of fun with it. I even stated I felt like this was the best 2k ever. I’m now retracting that statement because it’s not anymore! Lol! It’s not even close to that anymore. I’m not having fun at all and I basically can’t even play this game right now and for the last week it’s so bad.

These constant updates and changes from launch has become a joke. Whoever is in charge of tweaking the game daily has ruined it. Just get the game back to where it was (which wasn’t great as far as realistic pre adjustments but it was 1000x better than what we have right now) and then leave it alone. Just have all the sliders and settings work and we are good. Let us fix it! Lol But don’t get me wrong I still need that tag man and X out and drop coverage fix and then have them assign it to the cpu ACE but that’s me trying to remain optimistic. But if I can’t get that just give me the original gameplay with working sliders.

It’s pretty frustrating to have a game I bought and was having a ton of fun with just a few weeks ago to now (a month later) not even wanting to touch it because it’s a totally different game. I just try at least once every day or 2, but every day it gets worse and I get more and more frustrated and disappointed.

I can’t wait to login to OS and see Steve’s post saying the new patch is out. This game desperately needs it. I hope their radio silence means it should drop any day now and they are hard at work to fix it. I mean the crowd who was whining about turn off cutter help d and saying on ball was too tough was listened to and responded to but this goes unaddressed and it’s been crickets for a week and a half. It’s funny when all is good there is ongoing communication but when it’s not it’s quiet until next year. I couldn’t imagine if I did that with my business how that would go over. It’s not a good look! Which brings me to the d settings turned off and not working but it’s in the game yet no one tells us not to go waste time in there as it’s turned off. I mean poor Arob lost hours of his life and hair trying to figure them out. Lol

I’m not sure I’ve seen this before as I shelved the last 3 editions early, but I do know this has been an ongoing joke with 2k as far as the game changing from launch every year. So it’s new to me but what a disaster!

[Smirkin Dirk]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

Well said.

It’s been emotional and the real lessons are the friends we’ve made along the way.

[alabamarob]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

1. The root of most of the help defense problems is off ball pressure. Leave him, Gap, Moderate, Tight, and Smother. I honestly believe that this is the cause of 90 percent of the help defense problems. Gap, moderate, tight, and smother work properly with on ball defensive settings, but if you look at the difference between the 4 on off ball there is no to very little difference between the 4. In previous 2ks it was not that way. I don’t understand how they can working gap defensive pressure settings work on ball, but not off ball. It is right there in the code.

Gap on ball makes a defender stand on the box when there man has the ball in the corner at the 3 point line. Gap off ball makes the defender stand at the 3 point line with the offensive player. It makes no sense to me at all.

2. If you could make your players gap properly it would not only cut down driving lanes, but also put defenders in better help and recovery positions. If you look at a real NBA game the weak side defender is standing right outside the box with no ground to cover on a drive. This also allows him an ability to sprint directly to his man in the corner or wing.

In 2k22 they are sprinting down to help on the drive, which then requires the weak side to run towards the rim, stop and sprint the opposite direction to contest a 3 point shot. That is unrealistic, and another reason the corner 3 was so easy.

I am simply asking that the gap on ball defensive setting that is already working in 2k22 also be added to the off ball defensive setting in 2k22. Even if they just got rid of off ball defensive settings this year since they don’t work, and made it where if turning the on ball to gap means they gapped that offensive player on or off ball. That would even help.

I think this is one realistic fix they can make right now since it is already working in the game, that would greatly help the defense out.

[ataman5]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

I just Re read through this thread and man it is pretty comical. Talk about roller coaster! It’s fixed, no it’s not, I’m seeing help, now I’m not, helps back, oh no it’s not, it’s back again, oh but it’s bad. Lmao! And I was just as guilty! Dirk said it earlier and the saga continues but at 1 point said we fixed it and was ready to tackle climate change. Lol

Anyways, I also hopped on and played a little bit tonight too. I could immediately tell it was updated again (in either the last 2 days since I played last) as it felt super slow. I can always tell with the movement if it was updated. It’s the first thing I can feel and notice. I had to turn the game speed up to 60 to get it to feel good. It was awful and felt like a completely different game. Everything was bad so no need to explain it all. What was crazy though is 3-4 days ago after the update the movement felt the best I felt. Now that’s gone. The dribbling also didn’t feel as crisp. I feel like they are trying to band aid it somehow and slow everything down to help the d now. But that’s making it worse.

But after reading back through this thread and playing tonight we have had a patch and like 5 updates in a week and a half. That’s part of the issue is every day it’s a different game and it’s getting worse every update. Reading this thread confirms it as every day was different. Different console updates at different times, etc. I’m not sure if they are tweaking sliders behind the scene but I feel the difference every time I turn the game on. I’m sure they are trying to fix their issues but it’s ruined the core game from launch. Before for me, after editing rosters and playing with sliders I was having a ton of fun with it. I even stated I felt like this was the best 2k ever. I’m now retracting that statement because it’s not anymore! Lol! It’s not even close to that anymore. I’m not having fun at all and I basically can’t even play this game right now and for the last week it’s so bad.

These constant updates and changes from launch has become a joke. Whoever is in charge of tweaking the game daily has ruined it. Just get the game back to where it was (which wasn’t great as far as realistic pre adjustments but it was 1000x better than what we have right now) and then leave it alone. Just have all the sliders and settings work and we are good. Let us fix it! Lol But don’t get me wrong I still need that tag man and X out and drop coverage fix and then have them assign it to the cpu ACE but that’s me trying to remain optimistic. But if I can’t get that just give me the original gameplay with working sliders.

It’s pretty frustrating to have a game I bought and was having a ton of fun with just a few weeks ago to now (a month later) not even wanting to touch it because it’s a totally different game. I just try at least once every day or 2, but every day it gets worse and I get more and more frustrated and disappointed.

I can’t wait to login to OS and see Steve’s post saying the new patch is out. This game desperately needs it. I hope their radio silence means it should drop any day now and they are hard at work to fix it. I mean the crowd who was whining about turn off cutter help d and saying on ball was too tough was listened to and responded to but this goes unaddressed and it’s been crickets for a week and a half. It’s funny when all is good there is ongoing communication but when it’s not it’s quiet until next year. I couldn’t imagine if I did that with my business how that would go over. It’s not a good look! Which brings me to the d settings turned off and not working but it’s in the game yet no one tells us not to go waste time in there as it’s turned off. I mean poor Arob lost hours of his life and hair trying to figure them out. Lol

I’m not sure I’ve seen this before as I shelved the last 3 editions early, but I do know this has been an ongoing joke with 2k as far as the game changing from launch every year. So it’s new to me but what a disaster!

Welcome to my world vann. I've been here for a looooooonngggg timee...

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

Ok, I’m going to give this a shot and recap everything and see if we can come to a common ground on what needs to be fixed (for all modes), and summarize where it was out of the box and where it’s at today.


Out of the box game

1. There was sticky on ball defense (whether you liked it or not) that was stonewalling defenders. I personally found this unrealistic and a band aid fix. Plus every defender played the same and picked you up at half court. Even the bigs.

2. Everything was a Under on the PNR and there was super fast fight through screens (unrealistic IMO). So this made it hard to tell how the help was but it also made the pnr tougher.

3. Drop coverage is not working and not true drop coverage. The big does not drop at all like he should.

4. The basic help was there at launch. We saw players rotating. I never stress tested this or realized if there was a tag or not? Hard to tell…

5. Most all defensive settings were disabled and not working properly

6. There was double teams turned off and not working at all. But then they were and it was great along with the cpu scrambles out of it.

7. The sliders all worked. The defensive awareness and help d sliders specifically.

8. There was no small ball as bigs agility and sticky d was too high out of the box with no slider adjustments.

9. They nerfed and capped the player speeds on fast breaks and players would get stuck in mud and let players catch up.

10. The bigs could outrun fast point guards in transition.

11. Crazy amounts of steals on ball and the cpu swiping at the ball and chase down blocks. I loved all that personally although I thought slightly overdone at launch. But all that could get toned down with sliders.

12. PNR defense could not be spammed. Mostly because of the band aid fixes with everything I posted above.


Post patch & After they turned cutter help of for the online guys

1. Sticky on ball d is gone. We have players now backing off certain players although some are questionable. For example the cpu AI just backs off Chris Paul saying shoot the 3.

2. We see a variety of PNR coverages and the ball handler defender gets stuck more on the screens. That’s good IMO.

3. Drop coverage is still not working and not true drop coverage. The big does not drop at all like he should still.

4. This one is controversial as we have differing experiences. I am getting a ton of rotations but as I’ve explained earlier it’s all bad. No tags, bad scrambles, slow rotations with help not triggering til you get in the paint, etc. add to that it’s easy buckets to roll man all day. It’s easy to get a layup or roll man whenever you want on HOF and with sliders jacked up. The good news though is I have seen some mixed coverages and help.

5. Defensive settings still not working and most disabled by 2k purposely.

6. Double teams turned off purposely until late in games. No doubles by most apparently.

7. Some sliders like defensive awareness and help defense seem to not work or make a difference last I checked. It doesn’t help the defense rotate more or less.

8. Small ball is there as they toned down agility and speed of bigs. This is great for ISO’s on bigs but it killed the pnr game.

9. Still seeing the nerfed and cap on the player speeds on fast breaks and players still getting stuck in mud and letting players catch up.

10. I’m not seeing the bigs recover on fast breaks and beating fast players anymore but I’m on adjusted sliders to mitigate that. Maybe someone else can chime in here.

11. Both steals and blocks were way toned down. I preferred it at launch. Protect the ball people. But now the cpu defenders mostly just reach when you get in traffic instead of on ball 1 on 1. I will say though that has slightly changed in their last update. I saw players reaching again more often so it seems they are finding a more happy median there.

12. PNR defense is horrible. I touched on in #4. Too many things to name but go see my previous posts in this thread. But 1 big thing is the bigs can’t help properly and help as well as the no tag. But multiple things here.


I think that covers most of it. Please correct any of this if you think i’m wrong or missing something. This was all right after the last patch and when they turned cutter help off.

Like I said in my previous post the constant updates change the game nearly everyday or at least every other day. It makes it impossible for offline guys to enjoy the game or lock in sliders. It changes behind the scenes but effects our sliders. I can see how online probably needs constant updates and it’s good but offline I almost wish the updates just came on a patch to patch basis so we can lock in a fix until the next patch.

Anyways can we agree on some of this? When I think fixes it has to be fix solutions for everyone. It has to be for user and cpu. Online and off. Fixing defensive settings helps a user but unless they attach it to ACE it has no effect on offline guys.

I say fix the tag, fix drop coverage, fix d settings, and fix the help d sliders and I think we can be somewhere. Then stop with all the updates. At least we could have the ability to tweak it from there. Idk just my .02

[ChaseB]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

I shall read through whatever is posted (following my request), and will move on it from there.

[el jimmy]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

Ok, I’m going to give this a shot and recap everything and see if we can come to a common ground on what needs to be fixed (for all modes), and summarize where it was out of the box and where it’s at today.


Out of the box game

1. There was sticky on ball defense (whether you liked it or not) that was stonewalling defenders. I personally found this unrealistic and a band aid fix. Plus every defender played the same and picked you up at half court. Even the bigs.

2. Everything was a Under on the PNR and there was super fast fight through screens (unrealistic IMO). So this made it hard to tell how the help was but it also made the pnr tougher.

3. Drop coverage is not working and not true drop coverage. The big does not drop at all like he should.

4. The basic help was there at launch. We saw players rotating. I never stress tested this or realized if there was a tag or not? Hard to tell…

5. Most all defensive settings were disabled and not working properly

6. There was double teams turned off and not working at all. But then they were and it was great along with the cpu scrambles out of it.

7. The sliders all worked. The defensive awareness and help d sliders specifically.

8. There was no small ball as bigs agility and sticky d was too high out of the box with no slider adjustments.

9. They nerfed and capped the player speeds on fast breaks and players would get stuck in mud and let players catch up.

10. The bigs could outrun fast point guards in transition.

11. Crazy amounts of steals on ball and the cpu swiping at the ball and chase down blocks. I loved all that personally although I thought slightly overdone at launch. But all that could get toned down with sliders.

12. PNR defense could not be spammed. Mostly because of the band aid fixes with everything I posted above.


Post patch & After they turned cutter help of for the online guys

1. Sticky on ball d is gone. We have players now backing off certain players although some are questionable. For example the cpu AI just backs off Chris Paul saying shoot the 3.

2. We see a variety of PNR coverages and the ball handler defender gets stuck more on the screens. That’s good IMO.

3. Drop coverage is still not working and not true drop coverage. The big does not drop at all like he should still.

4. This one is controversial as we have differing experiences. I am getting a ton of rotations but as I’ve explained earlier it’s all bad. No tags, bad scrambles, slow rotations with help not triggering til you get in the paint, etc. add to that it’s easy buckets to roll man all day. It’s easy to get a layup or roll man whenever you want on HOF and with sliders jacked up. The good news though is I have seen some mixed coverages and help.

5. Defensive settings still not working and most disabled by 2k purposely.

6. Double teams turned off purposely until late in games. No doubles by most apparently.

7. Some sliders like defensive awareness and help defense seem to not work or make a difference last I checked. It doesn’t help the defense rotate more or less.

8. Small ball is there as they toned down agility and speed of bigs. This is great for ISO’s on bigs but it killed the pnr game.

9. Still seeing the nerfed and cap on the player speeds on fast breaks and players still getting stuck in mud and letting players catch up.

10. I’m not seeing the bigs recover on fast breaks and beating fast players anymore but I’m on adjusted sliders to mitigate that. Maybe someone else can chime in here.

11. Both steals and blocks were way toned down. I preferred it at launch. Protect the ball people. But now the cpu defenders mostly just reach when you get in traffic instead of on ball 1 on 1. I will say though that has slightly changed in their last update. I saw players reaching again more often so it seems they are finding a more happy median there.

12. PNR defense is horrible. I touched on in #4. Too many things to name but go see my previous posts in this thread. But 1 big thing is the bigs can’t help properly and help as well as the no tag. But multiple things here.


I think that covers most of it. Please correct any of this if you think i’m wrong or missing something. This was all right after the last patch and when they turned cutter help off.

Like I said in my previous post the constant updates change the game nearly everyday or at least every other day. It makes it impossible for offline guys to enjoy the game or lock in sliders. It changes behind the scenes but effects our sliders. I can see how online probably needs constant updates and it’s good but offline I almost wish the updates just came on a patch to patch basis so we can lock in a fix until the next patch.

Anyways can we agree on some of this? When I think fixes it has to be fix solutions for everyone. It has to be for user and cpu. Online and off. Fixing defensive settings helps a user but unless they attach it to ACE it has no effect on offline guys.

I say fix the tag, fix drop coverage, fix d settings, and fix the help d sliders and I think we can be somewhere. Then stop with all the updates. At least we could have the ability to tweak it from there. Idk just my .02

Agree with all this 100%, frankly if I can get a challenge out of the cpu, not be able to spam pnr without being punished and start seeing dynamic adjustments by the cpu (relevant timely doubles and working defence settings) I'll be happy and able to actually play the game again.

Most of all I just want the game to be fun. Despite the band-aid issues at launch, it was the most fun I've had playing 2k in years.would be nice to get that back

[alabamarob]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

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[jk31]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

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seeing this just hurts my eyes. i am a players Coach on a relatively low Level in germany and i preach to my players so often that everyone 2 passes away from the Ball is on help side Position which is basically on the imaginary line connecting both Baskets. meaning the first help side defender, which is the defender the furthest away. from the Ball will stand under the basket right outside the no Charge circle.most of the Times my players will do that.
remember: this is on a very low Level (3rd lowest League in germany).



i Know, in the nba There is the defensive 3 seconds rule meaning that a defender should Camp the paint for 2.9 seconds, leave it, and come back again. even if a Player would Camp right outside the paint this would be Good. what happens in 2k is a shame for Basketball especially as it was so much better in older Iteration of a game.



i want to fight against my opponent. with the game as it is nowadays i have to fight both my opponent and my AI teammates doing non Basketball Stuff on defense.

[kwabalicious]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

I agree the off ball defense gap logic is probably a big reason why help defense isn't working. The player defending the weakside corner 2+ passes away should pretty much have a foot in the paint by the low block. 2+ passes away guarding the wing should pretty much be at the elbow. This way they're in position to be in help almost immediately and they still have time to scramble back and contest if the ball gets thrown over their head.

Having functional 'play tight' 'smother' 'gap' etc off-ball settings could even ensure a shooter in the corner never gets left open, albeit at the expense of some rim protection down low.

Helping from the weakside corner is such a fundamental part of basketball as it creates a lot of the basketball actions and most of the ball movement that we're used to watching in the NBA. And it's not like it's a complicated concept to understand either. Help comes from the weakside to account for a players with a clear path to a bucket, and the leftover defender on the weakside plays between the two weakside shooters and takes the first pass.

Part of the problem are the off-ball settings, but I think we could also incentivize help defense under the rim more. Having more defenders closer the basket during a layup should slightly decrease the chances of making the shot, while maybe having just one defender with perfect position in front of the basket shouldn't just lead to an automatic miss.

If you watch an NBA game, you can see how hard players go to help their teammates and prevent the team from giving up an easy shot on the inside. At times it looks like they're just asking to give up an open shot, but help defense stops several easy layups/dunks throughout the course of every possession. You take your chances scrambling trying to force a contested jumper and/or reset your defense. I guess it also helps that real defenders can time help based on the ball handlers blind spots; blind spots that 2k players don't have.

It was so satisfying having to read the help and use ball movement to find an open shot for the first time ever in a 2k game. I hope 2k isn't abandoning that concept altogether.

[Smirkin Dirk]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

The sight of defenders hugging up on non-shooters off ball but running 3 steps away once they catch the ball is pretty funny.

Not ha ha funny.

[alabamarob]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

The sight of defenders hugging up on non-shooters off ball but running 3 steps away once they catch the ball is pretty funny.

Not ha ha funny.

I thought non functioning defensive settings took the cake until I saw this happen. It's in the game why not just have them do that off ball. Why enable on ball def settings before off ball?

Never in NBA history has a player hugged a man at the 3 pt line just to sag off him when he catches the pass.

[jeebs9]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

This morning I watched the cpu defender run away from Jerami Grant to make sure he sagged off him at the 3 point line. He literally turned around, ran to a spot then turned back around. It left me wondering. Does the cpu defender not know how to back pedal in this game? Do they not use L2 at any time? Is this why they never execute drop coverage properly?



I get the “drop” communication when I’m playing defence in the PNR at times so the cpu must use the same logic but I can’t remember them actually executing it properly. Am I crazy?



Miles Turner here doesn’t hedge and doesn’t back pedal. Gets roasted. Plus more (jimmy vids) including Brook Lopez turnstile.

https://youtu.be/3ZJLdyWKbjw

https://youtu.be/TvCmQBGudqU

Brook Lopez the drop king with no back pedal

https://youtu.be/CBCV035L_T0

Man these are spot on