Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on release

[EccentricMeat]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

Sadly the Shot Coverage Impact slider affects also the timing window for open shots, so if you lower that slider you also lower the timing window for open shots. If you put it low enough so that contested shots in the mid range - where the timing window is large enough so that lowering it has no huge impact on how many shots you or the CPU can make when open - to go in at a "realistic" percentage then it will be very hard to make threes (also if wide open) even when you or the CPU are exactly on the line, let alone being able to make deep threes with someone as Lillard or Curry. Try for example to put the slider at 10 and make shots from three with Curry in Freestyle, and you will see how much smaller the timing window for making shots (even when wide open) becomes in comparison to default 50.

We would really need instead a slider that affects the impact that contesting has on the making of jumpshots and only that (without affecting anything else). I hoped at first that Shot Coverage Impact would do just that but sadly it is also tied to a bonus for open shots that messes up everything (especially because the bonus is tied to timing window and not making % per se). The best of the best would be to have two separate sliders, one affecting the opening bonus and one affecting the contested bonus. As it is now they are tied so you cannot change one without affecting the other.

I play Real Player % and not Shot Timing, so this issue hopefully shouldn’t affect my gameplay. But for the Shot Timing people, that sucks if it really works like that.

[H2UKNOW]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

Some evidence that it's sort of in the game still.

https://<iframe width="560" height="...reen></iframe>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJRfBYzKWPM

https://<iframe width="560" height="...reen></iframe>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HSeHtkzb6c

And this is interesting. Ive seen it a fair bit. A CPU defender reacts to the roll. No help comes, but this indcates the game does recognise when a roll comes. Watch Garland in the corner.

https://<iframe width="560" height="...reen></iframe>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jldRRx0aOeY

Don't let 'em off the hook, bro. The rotation where the P&R defender stayed attached to his man while someone else rotated and left a shooter WIDE open in the corner was definitely what killed 2K21 and it's back. I do get it because other times they don't rotate at all, but this is bad.

[H2UKNOW]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

Excuse my lack of XO expertise, but I played today and noticed the play where a guard brings the ball up, hits another guard and double screens with the big is defended differently now and literally came to start this thread. As Spencer Dinwiddie, I was literally able to drive right past Bam and get to the rim every single possession. HOF default. At launch someone would switch out and basically stonewall the ball handler every time. Now we get an extreme on the other end of the spectrum. Man why balance is so hard for 2K, A-Rob?

[NYJin2011tm]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

I play Real Player % and not Shot Timing, so this issue hopefully shouldn’t affect my gameplay. But for the Shot Timing people, that sucks if it really works like that.

I also use real % and I think it does affect. I played two quarters with it, one where I set mine at 0 and CPU at 100 and next quarter opposite. To me there was a noticeable different in shot pcts.

[alabamarob]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

Excuse my lack of XO expertise, but I played today and noticed the play where a guard brings the ball up, hits another guard and double screens with the big is defended differently now and literally came to start this thread. As Spencer Dinwiddie, I was literally able to drive right past Bam and get to the rim every single possession. HOF default. At launch someone would switch out and basically stonewall the ball handler every time. Now we get an extreme on the other end of the spectrum. Man why balance is so hard for 2K, A-Rob?

The help that was in last week was good enough for me. That was more then balanced.

The thing we should all remember is the no he option works to prevent unwanted help. So there was no reason to remove help defense. I still think it's a bug. That is why it changes so much

[Smirkin Dirk]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

We would really need instead a slider that affects the impact that contesting has on the making of jumpshots and only that (without affecting anything else). I hoped at first that Shot Coverage Impact would do just that but sadly it is also tied to a bonus for open shots that messes up everything (especially because the bonus is tied to timing window and not making % per se). The best of the best would be to have two separate sliders, one affecting the opening bonus and one affecting the contested bonus. As it is now they are tied so you cannot change one without affecting the other.

I hear you. The jumpshot gather and release sliders are useful here.

Technically this reduce s the contest percentage but it still looks like you’re hitting contested shots.



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[ChaseB]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

I wish we could have logged how many hours ARob spent in settings and timeouts adjusting everything that never even worked. What’s the over/under?

[el jimmy]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

1. None of my comments are aimed at Czar.

2.. When something is available in an early version of the game, on early systems and not in the game its not excusable on a technical level. You can’t have it both ways and say “wait until we get this new console that can do things we couldn’t do last gen” and then turn around and say the system won’t allow it.

3. When a feature is in 2k22, and then it is removed or doesn’t work anymore then that is not excusable on a technical level.

One does not need to be a rocket scientist or a game designer to simply ask for things to not be taken out of a game.

At the end of the day you can’t sell something to someone, take their money, and then get mad at that them when a feature of the product stops working. We all have to be fairer with our commentary. No one is perfect, and sometimes things we do are not satisfactory. Defense today is not satisfactory, and that is not the consumer or the complainers fault. The fault lies at the person providing the service that they were paid to provide.

A lot of us work in specialized fields, that require privileged or expert knowledge. That doesn’t give us a license to provide a bad product, and then say its to technical for our customer to understand. It’s like a foot doctor killing 10 patients in a row, and then saying none of you have ever removed a toenail before so don’t question me.

This pretty much hits the nail in the head.

The standard next gen version of 2k is pretty damn expensive in my country and as of this moment, I frankly feel scammed.

After buying 2k21 and hating that game for it's non existent defence, I was lead to believe through developer blogs and general marketing that the focus on the game this year was defence.

I'd wager that it's even a bullet point on the back of the box.(don't know for sure, have the digital version).

I buy 2k22 after seeing overwhelming evidence that the games cpu defence is improved (particularly in the pnr) and for three weeks it was.

Now I'm essentially left with an expensive digital file that is no use to me because the reason I purchased it has been removed.

And if the solution is "it will be fixed in 23" I'm sorry, that's not good enough, I waited a year for a better game and now a month from launch I've been re- gifted last year's game.

I'm not trying to be over dramatic or anything, but advertising a feature and removing it after consumer purchase seems dodgy.

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

I just went on Twitter (24’s earlier recommendation) to czars page to see what was going on there. I went into 1 of the comments on a czar post (did I just say that out loud? Lol) and wow!

I saw like 10-15 comments of rec guys or my players (I don’t even know what they are called or mode they play?) talking about and asking for no corner help, why is help coming, stop help from coming, etc.

Then I saw other comments about how hard it is to get past the cpu. Bigs are too fast.

I mean that’s the feedback. Those were the changes that were made specifically in the latest patch.

The pull from all directions & struggle is real. Lol

So now we have a battle going on with the other side of the coin. It will be interesting to see how 2k handles this and appeases both communities. Especially if you can’t bring the help back then you will need to bring back the tougher on ball d that was also complained about. I mean someone will never be happy regardless. At what point does 2k stick to their guns and vision of how the game should be played. I think most here want a simulation of real basketball options and play with a difficulty attached to it. Is that feasible nowadays unless they create 2 separate experiences for both crowds so they can change each accordingly? I almost miss the days of the game I bought on release was what I got all year. On the flip side of that I remember game breaking bugs that would kill a game until the next year. So it’s a catch 22 for me.

At this point the question is who do you listen to? Who’s giving the feedback that I trust? Or is it who’s higher on the totem pole? I get we are in the minority here and I’m sure especially czar wants real basketball concepts in as he’s a sim guy but I can’t help but think there is this inner push/pull fight going on and we are losing currently. But this fight ain’t over boys! The season hasn’t even started yet. Lol

[strosdood]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

I just went on Twitter (24’s earlier recommendation) to czars page to see what was going on there. I went into 1 of the comments on a czar post (did I just say that out loud? Lol) and wow!



I saw like 10-15 comments of rec guys or my players (I don’t even know what they are called or mode they play?) talking about and asking for no corner help, why is help coming, stop help from coming, etc.



Then I saw other comments about how hard it is to get past the cpu. Bigs are too fast.



I mean that’s the feedback. Those were the changes that were made specifically in the latest patch.



The pull from all directions & struggle is real. Lol



So now we have a battle going on with the other side of the coin. It will be interesting to see how 2k handles this and appeases both communities. Especially if you can’t bring the help back then you will need to bring back the tougher on ball d that was also complained about. I mean someone will never be happy regardless. At what point does 2k stick to their guns and vision of how the game should be played. I think most here want a simulation of real basketball options and play with a difficulty attached to it. Is that feasible nowadays unless they create 2 separate experiences for both crowds so they can change each accordingly? I almost miss the days of the game I bought on release was what I got all year. On the flip side of that I remember game breaking bugs that would kill a game until the next year. So it’s a catch 22 for me.



At this point the question is who do you listen to? Who’s giving the feedback that I trust? Or is it who’s higher on the totem pole? I get we are in the minority here and I’m sure especially czar wants real basketball concepts in as he’s a sim guy but I can’t help but think there is this inner push/pull fight going on and we are losing currently. But this fight ain’t over boys! The season hasn’t even started yet. Lol

If they’re taking suggestions to not make the game play like actual basketball then that’s a issue and they need to be honest with themselves and their consumers as to what kind of game this is, cause it’s not a basketball game if that’s what they’re doing with these updates


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[el jimmy]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

Dead serious question.

Is it too early to look into a digital refund ( cyberpunk 2077 style) or do we believe that this issue will be fixed?

I've looked at twitter and the best I've found is czar saying he'll look into the issue over the weekend (Oct 2nd)

Since then we've had a patch and the issue still persists, so hopefully you can understand my concerns.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

Hit up Microsoft and explain your issue....can't hurt. If it's your first or first in a while, there's a chance they'll help...

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

If they’re taking suggestions to not make the game play like actual basketball then that’s a issue and they need to be honest with themselves and their consumers as to what kind of game this is, cause it’s not a basketball game if that’s what they’re doing with these updates


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

In 1 of the videos 24 posted earlier the czar said we don’t have the tech to separate Updates or changes YET so I’m assuming that will come in a year or 2 and really it has to so they can separate modes and the changes that each mode need or are required. I’m just speculating and going off his comment though so idk?

[nuckles2k2]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

I just went on Twitter (24’s earlier recommendation) to czars page to see what was going on there. I went into 1 of the comments on a czar post (did I just say that out loud? Lol) and wow!

I saw like 10-15 comments of rec guys or my players (I don’t even know what they are called or mode they play?) talking about and asking for no corner help, why is help coming, stop help from coming, etc.

Then I saw other comments about how hard it is to get past the cpu. Bigs are too fast.

I mean that’s the feedback. Those were the changes that were made specifically in the latest patch.

The pull from all directions & struggle is real. Lol

So now we have a battle going on with the other side of the coin. It will be interesting to see how 2k handles this and appeases both communities. Especially if you can’t bring the help back then you will need to bring back the tougher on ball d that was also complained about. I mean someone will never be happy regardless. At what point does 2k stick to their guns and vision of how the game should be played. I think most here want a simulation of real basketball options and play with a difficulty attached to it. Is that feasible nowadays unless they create 2 separate experiences for both crowds so they can change each accordingly? I almost miss the days of the game I bought on release was what I got all year. On the flip side of that I remember game breaking bugs that would kill a game until the next year. So it’s a catch 22 for me.

At this point the question is who do you listen to? Who’s giving the feedback that I trust? Or is it who’s higher on the totem pole? I get we are in the minority here and I’m sure especially czar wants real basketball concepts in as he’s a sim guy but I can’t help but think there is this inner push/pull fight going on and we are losing currently. But this fight ain’t over boys! The season hasn’t even started yet. Lol

Whoever Take Two wants to see happiest in their 2nd most valuable IP.

People can meet that statement with as much cynicism as they want, but the formerly single player GTA did not accidentally become a massive MMO (not condemning it. I play GTA Online on a semi-regular basis). Borderlands & Red Dead chugging along behind 2K too.

2K is not an indie title that is free of the trappings of a company trying to appease "the market". What that means for the actual game? Impossible to say definitively, but Visual Concepts are not free and clear to do whatever. That's almost a certainty.

[amioran]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

I play Real Player % and not Shot Timing, so this issue hopefully shouldn’t affect my gameplay. But for the Shot Timing people, that sucks if it really works like that.

It affects also Real Player %, and you can test this easily in Freestyle. Put the slider at 0 and do 50 open threes and test how many go in. Then put the slider to 100 after and do the test again. You will immediately be able to spot the difference since it will like night and day. In the second test much probably all threes will go in, in the former you will be lucky to have 10.