Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on release

[VictorMG]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

I agree but then we will find something else that needs fixing and it will always continue to be an ongoing conundrum.

But when the problem is something that was really good at one point, that's where it becomes frustrating.

[rjohns23]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

There's no overtime, it's boring now. It was boring last year with 2k21.



That's the biggest sin this game commits, it's boring.



I just killed the nets (as my hornets) in my Mynba. I was forcing the manual pnr everytime in the hope they would call a timeout and combat it.



Spoilers: they never did. We beat them by 20 and I was yawning the entire way.

lol yea thats bad.

Not sure if you did any slider or roster adjustments but thats the only way right now to make the game more interesting and entertaining.

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[rjohns23]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

But when the problem is something that was really good at one point, that's where it becomes frustrating.

True... but come on we all knew that they would make some type of change once my 13 year old nephew couldn't do a damn dance move or something at the park lol

2k is just waiting for us dinosaurs to phase out so they can make the game they really want. Basketball fortnite lol

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[loso_34]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

Absolutely wasn't the solution. Agreed.

We can call it basic/fundamental, but we're literally living in the moment of how delicate the balance is with this stuff. Highly doubt it was a nefarious plot to nerf help defense (Not saying that you're saying that) but it's more like a trickle down effect. This doesn't benefit players of any mode tbh..

As far as who complained- Impressions Thread is right up top. We can blame everyone else, but sometimes we have to trust the process too.. Said the same thing in that thread.

I have faith though. I mean, we were there. This reminds me of 2K16's cycle where gameplay had a good base and needed to be ironed out. Czar may be in the lab about to drop a monster adjustment at any moment.

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The main complaints I’ve seen on Reddit/Twitter are the contest system and steals. Maybe it’s the my team guys whining about help defence but I don’t see it.

I really hope they don’t bring back ghost contests. Guards in rec have lightning quick releases and defenders either neglected their block rating or routinely close out late, thus triggering weak contests.

The real problem is op shooting but everyone’s cool with shooting 70% so no complaints there.

[amioran]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

Not sure if you did any slider or roster adjustments but thats the only way right now to make the game more interesting and entertaining.

No roster or slider change will improve the lack/slow Help D, since that's a matter strictly tied to coding.

I can even understand 2K wanting to make the comp community happy, but before making such a huge change that they know will drastically (and negatively) affect another part of the community they should at least be sure to give the option to people to turn such a change On or Off.

Unless 2K is made with an unknown programming language that behaves completely different in the way routines and globals are handled please don't believe even for a second that putting a simple UI switch in the menu to turn part of a code (that already exists) on or off is a "difficult" (let alone impossible) thing to do, because it is something that any first year programming student can do in less than 30 minutes, alone.

So there's absolutely no excuse on 2K part on not giving the option to users to have Help D On or Off, depending on their preference. It can be difficult to add the option if the code is not yet there, but obviously it existed since it worked before, so it was just a simple matter of adding a UI switch for it, but they obviously couldn't care less to do it (and I suppose this is the case because the defensive settings UI is not yet finalized and they didn't want to add a UI option in the menu for such a thing).

[el jimmy]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

Set_active = false;

For example. Obviously a bit more complicated then that, but basically turn the function off or on.

Add it to the UI options for defence settings.

I don't buy that a company pulling in 2k's kind of revenue can't add this option before next year. Frankly sounds like another excuse to get us to buy 2k23, much like they told us last year that "defence was fundementaly broken and couldn't be fixed in a simple patch"

And then this year they fixed it (admittedly with some band-aid solutions but hey it worked) and now it's gone.

[wepr3]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

This thread has become depressing. I normally play MyTeam until the season starts, and watching the gameplay go from really good to really bad just sucks. It seems every year I end up going back to 2k16. It has warts too, but to me it was the most complete of the last 2 generations.

I'll keep watching and hoping they bring back what they took away.

[AIRJ23]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

Set_active = false;

For example. Obviously a bit more complicated then that, but basically turn the function off or on.

Add it to the UI options for defence settings.

I don't buy that a company pulling in 2k's kind of revenue can't add this option before next year. Frankly sounds like another excuse to get us to buy 2k23, much like they told us last year that "defence was fundementaly broken and couldn't be fixed in a simple patch"

And then this year they fixed it (admittedly with some band-aid solutions but hey it worked) and now it's gone.

They don’t care, is the simple answer. There’s obviously some lazy, or careless, or dollars and cents bottom line that prevents them from giving us an option or slider to manually enable a feature THAT WE ALREADY HAD AND WHICH THEY ADVERTISED THE GAME ON but they won’t, because simply put they don’t care enough. If they cared enough, they’d figure it out.

But not only do we not get the defense coded how it was at launch, but the help D sliders, help D coach settings, double team defensive settings, and help D player attributes don’t work. They refuse to give us one way to strengthen help D when there are literally handfuls of sliders and settings that are supposed to control it.

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

No roster or slider change will improve the lack/slow Help D, since that's a matter strictly tied to coding.

I can even understand 2K wanting to make the comp community happy, but before making such a huge change that they know will drastically (and negatively) affect another part of the community they should at least be sure to give the option to people to turn such a change On or Off.

Unless 2K is made with an unknown programming language that behaves completely different in the way routines and globals are handled please don't believe even for a second that putting a simple UI switch in the menu to turn part of a code (that already exists) on or off is a "difficult" (let alone impossible) thing to do, because it is something that any first year programming student can do in less than 30 minutes, alone.

So there's absolutely no excuse on 2K part on not giving the option to users to have Help D On or Off, depending on their preference. It can be difficult to add the option if the code is not yet there, but obviously it existed since it worked before, so it was just a simple matter of adding a UI switch for it, but they obviously couldn't care less to do it (and I suppose this is the case because the defensive settings UI is not yet finalized and they didn't want to add a UI option in the menu for such a thing).

Agree… This is coding. Nothing we can do in this one…

As far as the talking points in this thread the last few pages, did help defense really work before? We saw tag the roller and X outs? And we saw proper help from the WEAK SIDE corner and not leaving the strong side open? We saw proper drop coverage on PNR? We saw help before I hit the paint? We saw proper closeouts? C’mon! Lol

No one saw much help because of the stick D. The help they did see was the new blocks system or help on a drive if they did beat the sticky on ball d. That doesn’t mean the rotations worked after that. That’s not good defense. I don’t think it was what people thought it was. I’m not saying I haven’t seen some good rotations from time to time. I mean the defense is rotating like crazy for me. It’s not that they aren’t. They are, but it’s slow, bad rotations, no tag. It’s coded and we can’t fix it. It has to be 2k fixing it. My problem isn’t the cpu helping. It’s helping just too slow and bad rotation logic.

I am not sure 2k has help defense properly coded in the game with a scramble system to match? I am just talking about basic help defense that we cover in day 1 of practice every year with the basic 4 on 4 shell drill and 3 on 4 and 4 on 5 scramble drills. Bumping and tagging the roll man and X out scrambles. This is fundamental basic stuff that’s missing. The biggest thing though is if they can have the weakside corner react faster. Put him on a string with the ball handler like irl. This puts him in a better position to help and not have to come as far to help on the roll man. The help not even leaving until I’m in the paint is killing it but they should be tagging the roll anyways. As is right now the game is coded to help as soon as the ball handler touches the paint. No sooner. Then, the defensive awareness slider was working to help on player closeouts and helped before but it isn’t now. It was helping players react faster, scramble to their man faster, and recover faster. Not sure what happened there either because now it’s not. Lastly and I’ve said it numerous times and this would help with overall not needing help at all (band aid & realism) FIX DROP COVERAGE! Ding ding ding… That eliminates needing help, slow rotations from AI and oh ya By the way 95% of the league runs it throughout a game. In turn, this would also open up the mid range game, floater game, and snake dribbles more. Again all real life things we are seeing in today’s NBA.

Another strategy and 1 that we see in today’s game is more switching which leads to small ball and more ISO’s. Another tactic the cpu AI could use but we don’t see as much. But to do that we better have better help on drives and rotations. It was super weird to see the out of the box under coverage as it’s not something we see anymore. The pnr coverages in 2k are almost archaic. Teams either switch, drop, or ICE nowadays. They go over everything and force help to the big. They go over or switch all Chicago actions. It’s another reason we see more small ball and ISO’s. But in the chance they do go under or ICE on the wings then that’s where we have been seeing so many re screens by the screener. That’s hard to replicate in 2k.

At this point I think czar has to add the logic in the game like he is adding a play to 2k?! Someone posted a help video earlier with an X out but it was the user doing it. I’m yet to see it all tied together with a tag followed by an X out scramble. The only time I have seen it is off doubles and that scramble system is great but it also needs to be applied to the PNR game as well. We all watch games and how many times do we see “the extra pass” or “the one more pass” for the corner 3 and defenders scrambling and running at the shooters? That’s basketball and that we don’t see enough of in 2k because of all of these issues above. The only time I see that is off a double team and it’s beautiful to pass out and swing for the open corner 3. Again Id also like to see this logic out of the pnr as well. That all leads me to my last point. When the defender is playing 2 the cpu doesn’t take the 1st pass most of the time and X out. It instead plays the extra pass and not the ball (the only time I saw it was when the corner defender goes to help on the pick & pop). That’s another thing taking away from realism and because of that we don’t get to see the extra pass for open corner 3’s with good and proper ball movement. It should be the opposite.

So, we can’t fix this stuff. That’s basic fundamental basketball rotation logic that doesn’t exist in 2k. They have to fix that 1st before anything else. Then tweak on ball speed, agility, on ball defense, and reaction speeds to balance between the two. Just my .02…

[rjohns23]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

No roster or slider change will improve the lack/slow Help D, since that's a matter strictly tied to coding.

I can even understand 2K wanting to make the comp community happy, but before making such a huge change that they know will drastically (and negatively) affect another part of the community they should at least be sure to give the option to people to turn such a change On or Off.

Unless 2K is made with an unknown programming language that behaves completely different in the way routines and globals are handled please don't believe even for a second that putting a simple UI switch in the menu to turn part of a code (that already exists) on or off is a "difficult" (let alone impossible) thing to do, because it is something that any first year programming student can do in less than 30 minutes, alone.

So there's absolutely no excuse on 2K part on not giving the option to users to have Help D On or Off, depending on their preference. It can be difficult to add the option if the code is not yet there, but obviously it existed since it worked before, so it was just a simple matter of adding a UI switch for it, but they obviously couldn't care less to do it (and I suppose this is the case because the defensive settings UI is not yet finalized and they didn't want to add a UI option in the menu for such a thing).

Yea well if its coding, Dont expect it to be fixed anytime soon. Especially since a Dev hasn't commented on it yet, at least to my in knowledge. So it may be something thats just not that simple or it may cost other problems. Who the f*** knows lol

It may be that Im on PC, in where I'm seeing different defensive strategies (not perfect) by the CPU in where the game is at least challenging enough to keep me entertained for a game or 2.


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[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

But not only do we not get the defense coded how it was at launch, but the help D sliders, help D coach settings, double team defensive settings, and help D player attributes don’t work. They refuse to give us one way to strengthen help D when there are literally handfuls of sliders and settings that are supposed to control it.

This is the most disappointing thing to me. If we can fix it through the options they give us that like you said should give us the ability too then i’m ok with it. They literally give us the options to tweak it to our liking. But in this case they don’t work, it’s hard coded, and even if they did work, because the help logic isn’t correct it still only means we fix it to help more but not properly. So we are at the mercy of 2k to fix it unfortunately.

[nuckles2k2]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

No roster or slider change will improve the lack/slow Help D, since that's a matter strictly tied to coding.

I can even understand 2K wanting to make the comp community happy, but before making such a huge change that they know will drastically (and negatively) affect another part of the community they should at least be sure to give the option to people to turn such a change On or Off.

Unless 2K is made with an unknown programming language that behaves completely different in the way routines and globals are handled please don't believe even for a second that putting a simple UI switch in the menu to turn part of a code (that already exists) on or off is a "difficult" (let alone impossible) thing to do, because it is something that any first year programming student can do in less than 30 minutes, alone.

So there's absolutely no excuse on 2K part on not giving the option to users to have Help D On or Off, depending on their preference. It can be difficult to add the option if the code is not yet there, but obviously it existed since it worked before, so it was just a simple matter of adding a UI switch for it, but they obviously couldn't care less to do it (and I suppose this is the case because the defensive settings UI is not yet finalized and they didn't want to add a UI option in the menu for such a thing).

preach tho.

As stated before, it's all about the motivations of the person/people choosing code priorities. The term "dev" has been romanticized hard into an amorphous term, but actual devs don't choose what goes in. And those that do choose code priorities and assign projects are the directors/producers/leads and their marching orders come from someone above their pay grade.

I still think the best (really "cleanest") solution is separate 5v5 NBA-centric gameplay & online competitive-centric gameplay. One game publicly, two separate games behind the scenes with two diff dev pipelines. Those pipelines can converge at staging (where I assume they test ****, if they test anything at all)

Right now everything seems to be built from one base, and they keep tweaking one base for two experiences - where neither can fully be itself.

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

I just got an update and decided to try and test real quick. I am seeing way better help and just got a tag on the roll! (1st tag I have seen). It left the backside lift open!

Help seems to be coming way faster now?!

Maybe not. Lol saw it once but haven’t seen it again. The game does feel better and bigs more agile in PNR though (small sample size) but it does FEEL better.

Edit- so just tested a few quarters real quick (Xbox next gen). The feel is it seems agility for all players was tweaked and it feels great. Feels more responsive on both ends of the floor and it’s helping defensive players (bigs on PNR and rotations off ball recover and help better). Not sure yet if this effects small ball yet as I haven’t tried but will.

I still have only seen the tag once but it appears from stopping and replaying that the help is leaving to help at just inside 3 point line rather than the paint now. Another thing is I’ve seen a few different coverages (strong help Vs weak side help) play to play rather than after a timeout. Small sample size but it does seem improved from yesterday.

I also had a couple extra pass and 1 more pass for open 3. Not in the corner but corner to wing for open 3 on a few kick outs. Felt good.

Also seeing more switches so the corner doesn’t leave to cover the pop now and because the big is containing the ball handler better and more often.

Edit 2 - small ball still there. It’s still hit and miss though with help. No tagging consistently still. Seems like the 1 time I saw it was an anomaly. But definitely having a tougher time getting into the paint as easy as before. Still getting there but again picked up mostly by the big now.

Edit 3 - Faster players like Trae Young & Donavan Mitchell still easy and a problem to easily get in the paint. But they should be. I was having a tougher time with J. Murray all against Nurkic with is slower. I’m gonna try against jazz and heat to see the difference with Gobert and Adebayo. But with faster guys it shows still lack of a tag still hurts the cpu d.

Edit 4 - I hate this game. Lol Now I get no help. And big can’t contain and I’ve changed nothing. Just faster guys I guess… no tag. Same issues. The different experiences game to game is baffling. I played 3 quarters of Nuggets and Blazers and it was great. Then I tried jazz and heat and nothing. Don’t want mislead anyone. I just get different things every game. When I 1st saw the tag in the 1st few minutes of 1st game after update I got excited and thought it was fixed but it’s not.

[sperlz_99]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

The game is broken. I just played as timberwolves and if anyone remembers on 2k21 I did a thread about pick and roll defense and how it was broken and posted a video of dangelo Russell and how I could time and time again get open buckets by calling a pick and roll.

Well this exact thing is happening again since the patch. 9 out of 10 possessions I can give the ball to him and get a clear path to the bucket by calling a pick and running around the helpless big. Absolute joke that the game has reverted back to this when it was absolutely fine before. I only bought the game because it was fixed but to now break it again means I was sold a copy of something which is no longer the product that I bought and I don't want it. That should mean I am entitled to a full refund. Anyone got any ideas how I can go about getting that?

[Luke Skywalker]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

The game is broken. I just played as timberwolves and if anyone remembers on 2k21 I did a thread about pick and roll defense and how it was broken and posted a video of dangelo Russell and how I could time and time again get open buckets by calling a pick and roll.

Well this exact thing is happening again since the patch. 9 out of 10 possessions I can give the ball to him and get a clear path to the bucket by calling a pick and running around the helpless big. Absolute joke that the game has reverted back to this when it was absolutely fine before. I only bought the game because it was fixed but to now break it again means I was sold a copy of something which is no longer the product that I bought and I don't want it. That should mean I am entitled to a full refund. Anyone got any ideas how I can go about getting that?

I have the digital copy, I would love to have a refund as well.