Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on release

[AIRJ23]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

I know in years past that’s how they used to work. But unless I am misunderstanding what your saying or maybe even how it’s been in the past (I shelved last 3 editions early), That’s not the case this year with gather and release. If you want to make it easier or harder for the user then you use user gather settings. It makes the cpu defense tougher or vice versa. You can also see this by going to different skill levels (rookie, all star, superstar, hof, etc). You can see they set it as intended as well. You can test this by zero out driving contact and going 100 on the cpu. Then reverse it. You will immediately see the difference.

But Im pretty sure you are talking here about shot timing and coverage impact? Those also don’t work reversed. I have tested this and used shot feedback on both user and cpu to confirm. When on 100 for shot coverage impact and even for cpu they didn’t hit any shots when shot was contested. At 0 they hit a ton while being above 50% contests. I have settled on 15 for cpu. Eliminating shot timing impact for cpu as well. I did the same thing for me and saw same results. Ive seen other people think it’s the other way around. It was placebo.

So, if you want more user shots to go in lower user setting. If your bad at shot timing lower it to 34 on user side. You will see a huge difference. Just leave the shot feedback on and you will see. If you want more contested shots to go in and lower the user shot coverage. This will mean the cpu has to be super close to be considered a contest as well as mean you have a higher chance of making the contested shot. You will also see this in shot feedback. You will see lower contest percentages and more balls going in the hoop.

Edit: I should state this is X box next gen & I have no clue if last gen is the same or not?

I made a pretty detailed post about how the defense strength sliders work. The user sliders control how much of an effect the CPU defense has on the user, and vice versa for the CPU sliders. So if the user sliders are at 100 and the CPU sliders are at 0, the user will shoot a low percentage and the CPU will shoot as if everything is wide open.

Ok I’m starting to get it. The defensive settings drive me nuts in confusion. I had no idea the CPU defense sliders impact the CPU OFFENSE. I figured raising their sliders would make their defense better and not mine.

So in layman’s terms, if I, the User, want to make contested shots, I LOWER the jump shot related defensive sliders on the User side?

Knowing me, I’ll keep it at 50 and try to master making contested jumpers as is. But if it gets too annoying it’ll be a good change perhaps.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

Note, not trying to actively stress the p&r, but I'm seeing help come

https://streamable.com/mk4nec

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

[rudyjuly2]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

Before 2K21 released I remember reading subtle shade thrown at former defensive dev Scott after he left. Well I don’t remember anywhere near the amount of critical defensive coding issues we are seeing in next gen. It’s disappointing to see basic PNR Defense be abused two years in a row now. Praying for a quick fix.

[alabamarob]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

Note, not trying to actively stress the p&r, but I'm seeing help come

https://streamable.com/mk4nec

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

Yeah. I am not seeing any problems with the defense on pnr. The cpu is mucking up the paint. I don’t think people realize how many points are generated by the roll man. Capela avg 15 ppg last year on this alone. So the idea that you can’t consistently get good offense from the pnr should be questioned.

I am not clear what spamming the pnr means, but I definitely don’t want it at a point where the roll man is never open, and every single shot is a corner 3.

It seems to be in a good spot right now.

[ataman5]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

Just noticed that AI is hanging off bad shooters (on ball, not off) and they're going under on bad shooters in pnr and over on good shooters.

From my forst 5 minutes, manual pick and roll is absolutely spammable although help on drives is better. Ill need to play multiple games against different teams though.

Yes they hang off, i have some video examples for it on my phone. FE Ben Simmons after a pnr i take my onball defender onto Embiid and with my cpu Center and nobody has any business or alert to help on Simmons on the perimeter which when i realized really made me smile but these were happening since a while, not new.

EDIT: Ok Smirkin i was not lazy around and did the work for you for the videos. Here you go, these are from last week and from current gen. A 5v5 MLO game on HOF, no change to any setting or defense or anything, all on default.

Ben Simmons on the perimeter are being neglected by my ai defenders. I hope that same Ben Simmons would be better get some problems with good rotations and help in the paint though.

https://streamable.com/ezccqg

https://streamable.com/rnzzlu

[el jimmy]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

It's not enough though, I feel no sense of challenge or resistance. Occasionally they'll be help, but it never actually stops me on the drive or forces me to give it up.

For contrast, I just booted up 2k16 and ran prime Westbrook manual pnr against a terrible Sixers defensive team - and they made me work for it. Switches, help at the rim etc, bottom line It was not a viable strategy to run manual pnr everytime down the floor.

In the 2k22 king's vs bucks example I posted I RUN INTO the help, more or less screaming at them "hello! I'm De'Aaron Fox! I'm trying to get to the rim! Won't you please try to stop me!?"

Nothing, I just waltz through for ANOTHER wide open dunk.

If you would have told me six years ago that the cpu pnr defence would be better in 2k16 then 2k22 I would have laughed in your face.

[Smirkin Dirk]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

Yes they hang off, i have some video examples for it on my phone. FE Ben Simmons after a pnr i take my onball defender onto Embiid and with my cpu Center and nobody has any business or alert to help on Simmons on the perimeter which when i realized really made me smile but these were happening since a while, not new.

EDIT: Ok Smirkin i was not lazy around and did the work for you for the videos. Here you go, these are from last week and from current gen. A 5v5 MLO game on HOF, no change to any setting or defense or anything, all on default.

Ben Simmons on the perimeter are being neglected by my ai defenders. I hope that same Ben Simmons would be better get some problems with good rotations and help in the paint though.

https://streamable.com/ezccqg

https://streamable.com/rnzzlu

haha nice man. I only took a screenshot of Ben mucking up Embiids space. Pity we need an advanced degree in computer science to post a screenshot to the forum.

Weird how they only sag off him on ball, not off ball.

[Smirkin Dirk]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

Im going to play some actual games rather scrimmages. The amount of **** I talk....I only play with one team, and here I am passing judgement on a game.

[rudyjuly2]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

The roll man in the NBA always averages more points per possession than the handler. That’s why the NBA drops to take them away and push the mid range. Clint Capela had a high amount of rolls at 3.3 per game and 1.20 PPP. I’d say roughly 75% of the time the ball handler is forced to keep because of drop coverage and help. We still don’t see effective drop coverage which is crucial if they start going over on screens. Can anyone show me a video of the cpu playing effective drop coverage in this game vs PNR?

I will respectfully disagree with those that think PNR defence is in a good spot. I think it’s the worst we have seen this entire release of 2K22.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/roll-man/?SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=PPP&dir=1&CF=POSS*G*1

[Smirkin Dirk]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

From my limted play with this new update, it's not the ball handler that is ignored, it's the roller.

The help has no interest in the guy rolling to the rim (as Ive said, this is from scrimmaging).

I found some good examples of the roller being recognised from help 2K17.

https://<iframe width="560" height="...reen></iframe>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvgV6EMvEwU

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

It's not enough though, I feel no sense of challenge or resistance. Occasionally they'll be help, but it never actually stops me on the drive or forces me to give it up.



For contrast, I just booted up 2k16 and ran prime Westbrook manual pnr against a terrible Sixers defensive team - and they made me work for it. Switches, help at the rim etc, bottom line It was not a viable strategy to run manual pnr everytime down the floor.



In the 2k22 king's vs bucks example I posted I RUN INTO the help, more or less screaming at them "hello! I'm De'Aaron Fox! I'm trying to get to the rim! Won't you please try to stop me!?"



Nothing, I just waltz through for ANOTHER wide open dunk.



If you would have told me six years ago that the cpu pnr defence would be better in 2k16 then 2k22 I would have laughed in your face.

2K16, for reference, on HOF default.

https://streamable.com/sr1fef

The P&R has and will always be the most exploitable tool in basketball games. Just a matter of how. (That's not to say 2K16's coverage was horrible)

I think we all saw the non help from the corner and agreed there was a fix needed. There seem to be varying opinions now.

I think the best thing to do if you feel it's not strong enough is give feedback to Czar.

Is it happening outside of scrimmage mode?

What difficulty are we playing on and what sliders did we hit?

Is it something that's actually constantly exploitable? or a handful of times?

Are we now good with the initial pick and roll defense the game shipped with? There were many complaints about the bigs coverage.

Smirk: Looks like the roller was covered pretty well in my vid above by Crowder, not seeing that at all?

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[el jimmy]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

2K16, for reference, on HOF default.

https://streamable.com/sr1fef

The P&R has and will always be the most exploitable tool in basketball games. Just a matter of how. (That's not to say 2K16's coverage was horrible)

I think we all saw the non help from the corner and agreed there was a fix needed. There seem to be varying opinions now.

I think the best thing to do if you feel it's not strong enough is give feedback to Czar.

Is it happening outside of scrimmage mode?

What difficulty are we playing on and what sliders did we hit?

Is it something that's actually constantly exploitable? or a handful of times?

Are we now good with the initial pick and roll defense the game shipped with? There were many complaints about the bigs coverage.

Smirk: Looks like the roller was covered pretty well in my vid above by Crowder, not seeing that at all?

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

Yeah I've chatted to him on Twitter and sent him some videos. Don't want to hassle the guy too much though, I'm sure he's busy.

For the record Ive tested scrimmage, play now and my Mynba (which was started before the update) on all star, superstar and HOF, Ive tried adjusting sliders myself (defensive help, lateral quickness, on ball d, body up, user speed, quickness etc)

I've tried downloading sliders and making adjustments.

It doesn't work %100 of the time, but the fact that I can never touch the plays menu, run manual pnr everytime down the floor and be quite easily beating the cpu on said difficulty levels is an issue.

No 2k16 wasn't perfect, but the fact that I'm still playing it 6 years later and working to make it a feasible offensive option is a good sign.

Honestly there were issues with launch pnr coverage but I was enjoying being challenged by the cpu again. I had to learn effective plays, I had to watch czar's stream to learn how to utilise my speed in the roll, and it felt great.

I had to learn the strengths and weaknesses of my team.
I would also argue that we weren't given enough time with the game at launch to fully expose the biggest issues with the game. 3 and a half weeks and they took it away from us.

I suppose some of what I'm trying to get across is an intangible feeling of challenging basketball, one that I get from older 2k's (16, 19, even 14) and until I get that back the game is going to seem unplayable to me.

Anyway, I just want to be scared if the cpu again. I want the Lakers, nets etc to put the fear of God into me again.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

Yeah I've chatted to him on Twitter and sent him some videos. Don't want to hassle the guy too much though, I'm sure he's busy.



For the record Ive tested scrimmage, play now and my Mynba (which was started before the update) on all star, superstar and HOF, Ive tried adjusting sliders myself (defensive help, lateral quickness, on ball d, body up, user speed, quickness etc)



I've tried downloading sliders and making adjustments.



It doesn't work %100 of the time, but the fact that I can never touch the plays menu, run manual pnr everytime down the floor and be quite easily beating the cpu on said difficulty levels is an issue.



No 2k16 wasn't perfect, but the fact that I'm still playing it 6 years later and working to make it a feasible offensive option is a good sign.



Honestly there were issues with launch pnr coverage but I was enjoying being challenged by the cpu again. I had to learn effective plays, I had to watch czar's stream to learn how to utilise my speed in the roll, and it felt great.



I had to learn the strengths and weaknesses of my team.

I would also argue that we weren't given enough time with the game at launch to fully expose the biggest issues with the game. 3 and a half weeks and they took it away from us.



I suppose some of what I'm trying to get across is an intangible feeling of challenging basketball, one that I get from older 2k's (16, 19, even 14) and until I get that back the game is going to seem unplayable to me.



Anyway, I just want to be scared if the cpu again. I want the Lakers, nets etc to put the fear of God into me again.

I hear you-

I admittedly split my time between on/offline..so maybe I'm just not there yet like you guys are. .

I consider myself to be a pretty good 2k player...but I can't say I'm straight
tearing up the 2K22 AI on HOF like I did in 2K21... Feels like I've been seeing some incredible things from the CPU

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[AIRJ23]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

I’m playing MyNBA on Superstar with slightly adjusted shooting sliders (52 for both teams).

ZERO double teams and help defense on drives to the rim. ZERO. Feels exactly like 2K21.

Actually 2K21 is starting to feel more fun. Why? Because at least I can choose to mix it up and shoot. 2K22 has defenders stuck to me like glue on the perimeter but once I beat them, I can just waltz to the rim. And in order to be competitive in 2K22, I HAVE to drive every play. Because I can’t shot create at the perimeter good enough yet.

I hate to say that as I love this game. But the defense is broken.

Can’t find an open three or just have some fun and create a semi open mid range jumper. So I just have to keep turboing to the rim.

Defenders do get in front of me a bit better than 2K21 while driving, but once I lose them, it’s just like 21. Nobody gets in my way.

What the F***** HAPPENED TO THE DOUBLE TEAMS I BOUGHT THIS GAME FOR? They were gorgeously smart and active. Now non existent.

I’m not passing judgment yet as there are so many improvements in this game and a lot of my frustration is inevitably the learning curve. But I feel like it’s more competitive than 21 in the worst way possible (harder to shoot when shooting was already not great in 21, and nearly as easy to drive and score in the paint).

I really hope a patch is coming.

[el jimmy]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

I hear you-

I admittedly split my time between on/offline..so maybe I'm just not there yet like you guys are. .

I consider myself to be a pretty good 2k player...but I can't say I'm straight
tearing up the 2K22 AI on HOF like I did in 2K21... Feels like I've been seeing some incredible things from the CPU

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

That's what makes it especially frustrating, Ive seen the cpu do exciting things. Doubles on Luka in the post after bullying kemba, hitting a three on me by passing and rotating for an open shot like the 14 Spurs (it was a dagger shot in the 4th, I wasn't even angry - just smiled and said to myself "nice ball movement)

The game is so close in some ways to being the best representation of b-ball in a video game, but to have something as common as the pnr be an issue is like a splinter in the back of my brain.