Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on release

[ataman5]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

With all due respect this is not up to par.

The defense this morning is back to not helping at all, after 4 or 5 days of helping. It’s back to a one v one battle everytime down the floor while everyone else stands around’ s and watch.

I am confused by what is going on. The main improvement this year was supposed to be help defense. It was in the game. Then it was removed, and then put back in. Now removed again?

I guess I am going to have to put this game back down until it gets some direction. I am very confused.

These inconsistincies were the reason why i came on the forums last year and before and before that year Rob, a lot of people were playing different games and i did my best to explain all in good manner not you but some who didn't experience what i've or someone else been experiencing wouldn't really understand us and all they did was to say to us that don't keep on whining or why are you here and saying all these similar stuff etc.

Now most guys can get to see what's really wrong with 2K,too on a different part of the game with a bigger picture of understanding how the game plays differently from one to another.

The game is always connected to servers and gets tuning through roster updates or else and the game keeps changing and gets more inconsistent from one person to another, morning to nite, on one console to another, current to next and on and on so.. These tunes, little patches or whatever is definitely causing more bugs than 2k realize they would.

Ever since roster tuning got in, ever since 2k started to get all the data from users even on offline games etc. and that started with 2k15-16 times things started go on a different route. (CG years) We've seen atrocious 2k17 shooting remember...

I know that this post won't get much understanding,too because it's hard to explain and comprehend of all the experineces and testing i've been doing and seeing over the years but still it's good let it out of my system.

[nuckles2k2]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

These inconsistincies were the reason why i came on the forums last year and before and before that year Rob, a lot of people were playing different games and i did my best to explain all in good manner not you but some who didn't experience what i've or someone else been experiencing wouldn't really understand us and all they did was to say to us that don't keep on whining or why are you here and saying all these similar stuff etc.

Now most guys can get to see what's really wrong with 2K,too on a different part of the game with a bigger picture of understanding how the game plays differently from one to another.

The game is always connected to servers and gets tuning through roster updates or else and the game keeps changing and gets more inconsistent from one person to another, morning to nite, on one console to another, current to next and on and on so.. These tunes, little patches or whatever is definitely causing more bugs than 2k realize they would.

Ever since roster tuning got in, ever since 2k started to get all the data from users even on offline games etc. and that started with 2k15-16 times things started go on a different route. (CG years) We've seen atrocious 2k17 shooting remember...

I know that this post won't get much understanding,too because it's hard to explain and comprehend of all the experineces and testing i've been doing and seeing over the years but still it's good let it out of my system.

There's legitimacy here tho.

I remember at times where a game at 6/7 am would feel 100% diff from a game at 10/11pm (NYC, so.. eastern US server locations I would assume). I can't speak on how things are now--don't have 2k22 & didn't play 2k21 (last gen) as regularly--but it felt for a while that VC's server load was affecting offline modes too.

If someone primarily played one mode, at a particular time of the day, where the server load would be in a similar place on a daily basis..they wouldn't have seen any of this.

I remember offline MyCarrer being real good for the vast differences in feel, and a MyLeague save file with adjusted sliders did not play 100% the same at the bookends of the day

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

So I’ve been replaying every PNR to see rotations and here is what I am seeing.

1 - I never see a tag on roll man. Ever

2 - The big can’t help or stay in front of the ball handler most times on the pnr. This is with cpu defense sliders jacked up to 100. This then ends up triggering help or a wide open lane.

3 - Because of #2 This causes 3 things to happen. The 1st is if it’s a roll the roll man is most often times wide open because of no tag or rotation. Ever. If it’s a switch the weakside corner comes to help BUT it’s way to late and only after I’ve hit the paint. Easy lay in. Or I hold on to the ball and instead of making the lay-up I throw a drift pass for a wide open 3 in the corner once I see the help start to come after I hit the paint. Easy money. The 3rd, is if it’s a pick in pop then the corner lifts to take the pop and the corner is wide open. Good news though on that part is they X out to contest it but it’s late.

4 - The cpu will then call timeout and adjust. They then look to attack the pnr ball handler from the 2 side top wing, this brings the corner defender up to play 2 leaving the strong corner wide open.

5 - I touched on this briefly but we all want slower bigs to play small ball but to get that we now have less agile bigs to defend the pnr. Pick your poison.

So no tag the roll man ever is killing the pnr, but a simple quick fix is to fix the drop coverage to play properly which forces the user to use the floater and mid range game. This also means there doesn’t need to be help from the corners.

The good news though is most help is now coming from the weak side 80-90% of the time but it’s flawed. I’m seeing tons of help but it’s either to late, to slow, or no tag. But I still on occasion also see the basic help off the single side strong corner leaving him wide open. Just saw it again. Just not as often. But I’m seeing help come a ton and rotations but again it’s all flawed.

[rjohns23]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

Good stuff and testing here but man lol

I guess I may be in the minority in where I dont mind the CPU missing defensive coverages or mixing up how they play help side D. Maybe because I play MyLeague and I'm okay with beating the CPU by 30 one game and then losing by 15 the next time. I dont wont every game to feel like a game 7 on the road.

Maybe 2k is accounting for this. Maybe they have to do certain things to account for variation in scores and whatever.

Now I will agree that we should not be able to "cheese" our way to a win. Meaning if I run PNR for 30 straight possessions I score 30 straight dunks/layups because they (cpu) is not covering the roll man.

But to be honest I dont see this (cheesing the PNR) all game. And I play HOF 12min full game. So I see various adjustments from the 1st half to the 2nd.

The only "cheese" I see is when the CPU switches on picks and I throw it to my big. and he scores. Now I havent abused this strategy yet but thats the only thing I can really see that the CPU becomes brain dead about.

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[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

Good stuff and testing here but man lol

I guess I may be in the minority in where I dont mind the CPU missing defensive coverages or mixing up how they play help side D. Maybe because I play MyLeague and I'm okay with beating the CPU by 30 one game and then losing by 15 the next time. I dont wont every game to feel like a game 7 on the road.

Maybe 2k is accounting for this. Maybe they have to do certain things to account for variation in scores and whatever.

Now I will agree that we should not be able to "cheese" our way to a win. Meaning if I run PNR for 30 straight possessions I score 30 straight dunks/layups because they (cpu) is not covering the roll man.

But to be honest I dont see this (cheesing the PNR) all game. And I play HOF 12min full game. So I see various adjustments from the 1st half to the 2nd.

The only "cheese" I see is when the CPU switches on picks and I throw it to my big. and he scores. Now I havent abused this strategy yet but thats the only thing I can really see that the CPU becomes brain dead about.

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Ya I’m just stress testing. I don’t play like that either. But the bad part is I don’t want to have to police my PNR usage either. I’m all for mistakes and mixed coverages. Unfortunately though it’s not play to play. It’s only after ACE adjusts timeout to timeout where I see a different coverage. So I can see 6 minutes of the same coverages. Then they switch it. Or if I get 6-8 straight points in the paint then the cpu calls a quick timeout to change ACE. So it’s only after I have 3-4 straight layups or dunks. But there are multiple problems with rotations and the PNR coverages now. Not just 1 thing.

[Becanes]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

I’m only using PnR when it’s an auto called play. That’s how I’m policing myself. I don’t call any manual PnR.


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[rjohns23]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

Ya I’m just stress testing. I don’t play like that either. But the bad part is I don’t want to have to police my PNR usage either. I’m all for mistakes and mixed coverages. Unfortunately though it’s not play to play. It’s only after ACE adjusts timeout to timeout where I see a different coverage. So I can see 6 minutes of the same coverages. Then they switch it. Or if I get 6-8 straight points in the paint then the cpu calls a quick timeout to change ACE. So it’s only after I have 3-4 straight layups or dunks. But there are multiple problems with rotations and the PNR coverages now. Not just 1 thing.

Yea I hate having to police myself too. I want it to be challenging in where I have to sort of out coach the CPU. Kind of a like a strategy role playing game. (man I wish they could bring back coach mode).

But as I get older (wrong side of 30 lol), I tend to lend myself towards as long as the game is fun/challenging and keeps me entertained then I'm good.

I still praise 2k for giving us the options to at least tweek just about everything so that we can test/adjust the game to our liking. Its not perfect but thats what you get when there is not another basketball option to compare and contrast with.

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[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

Yea I hate having to police myself too. I want it to be challenging in where I have to sort of out coach the CPU. Kind of a like a strategy role playing game. (man I wish they could bring back coach mode).

But as I get older (wrong side of 30 lol), I tend to lend myself towards as long as the game is fun/challenging and keeps me entertained then I'm good.

I still praise 2k for giving us the options to at least tweek just about everything so that we can test/adjust the game to our liking. Its not perfect but thats what you get when there is not another basketball option to compare and contrast with.

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I agree with you but in this case I also just tested if we can help mitigate the issues.

I just captured video on each example from my previous post. It was easy to replicate each thing. I will try and figure out how to get on here. The post earlier is exactly the issues. No tag ever and the help triggering only when in the paint, big can’t stick with PNR ball handler, and help only on a pop or a drive not on the roll. Also changes in coverages after timeouts.

I also just tested upping every player globally to 99 help d iq. No change. Reactions were not any quicker, didn’t change any help logic. Then I put cpu d awareness at 99. Still no difference. This is 1 of those things they need to fix internally.

Will get videos here at some point.

[Quentin32]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

Maybe it’s the sliders I’m playing with but I don’t have this PNR issue. I get deterred to run because the switch so fast

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

Maybe it’s the sliders I’m playing with but I don’t have this PNR issue. I get deterred to run because the switch so fast

This could be something. Are you exploding and setting up the pnr? I am and I’m sure a lot of people are I’d assume? But that could be why it’s tough for bigs along with them being less agile and slower now to contain the pnr.

But that just shows where the help d logic isn’t where it should be and makes it more apparent. If the help is right and rotating properly then beating a big shouldn’t matter as much.

[rudyjuly2]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

If the cpu Bigs actually used drop coverage and played it more effectively a lot of these problems disappear. Just code them to stand in the paint lol.

They have to fix the sag on/off ball thing before it drives me crazy. It’s only for 3 point shooters in the 70s so it’s not on everyone but it’s bad.

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

I feel like OG is somewhere in Orlando sipping on some coffee, reading this thread, and laughing. So you thought this was easy huh? Lol

[SwaggerCoach]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

What about from a badge perspective?

What if you gave the bigs who are being killed on the PNR the Pick Dodger Hall of Fame badge? And gave all offensive bigs ZERO brick wall badges?

[Smirkin Dirk]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

Bigs are supposed to get blown by on switches. They mitigate this by either dropping back to encourage the semi contested jumpshot , or the help D is ready to step in as soon as the drive comes.

At the moment, I blow by Kevin Love at 30 feet (a new house rule Ive tried is calling pnrs near half court to give the help advanced warning..."Hi, Im about to blow by. Please get ready to come over. Ill even lay off turbo. See you soon x."), and the help D stays rooted to the spot.

You can send your roller into the paint any time you want. The only it's stopped is if they switch and they get a hand on the pass. As VWH said, no tags.

THis is just a different game.

[VictorMG]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

What about from a badge perspective?

What if you gave the bigs who are being killed on the PNR the Pick Dodger Hall of Fame badge? And gave all offensive bigs ZERO brick wall badges?

That would be more useful for wings than bigs, if I understand what you're saying. Pick Dodger is for the player who gets screen, not the player defender the screener.