Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on release

[zten11]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

This makes me sad for the series going forward.

We asked Czar to get us a sim experience, and on release he delivered. I called this the beat 2k I had ever played. Every month since then they've ripped off a piece of the defense that made me love this game on release

How can it change that much in a matter of months?

[rudyjuly2]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

How can it change that much in a matter of months?

It didn’t imo. The defensive rotations and PNR defence were never good. Sometimes the defence would warp or cheat to help make things better but I don’t agree that defence was ever good in next gen. Defensive help and proper rotations have been lousy the last two years on PS5 imo. At best they weren’t game breaking and at other times they were so bad I just gave up. Haven’t played the game in months.

Whether people agree on this issue or not we should all remember they hid the game from us last year. No gameplay videos until days before release. The fact it’s been two years of this junk has me losing faith in this series. I won’t be buying day one this year. Not fooling me again.

[CujoMatty]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

It didn’t imo. The defensive rotations and PNR defence were never good. Sometimes the defence would warp or cheat to help make things better but I don’t agree that defence was ever good in next gen. Defensive help and proper rotations have been lousy the last two years on PS5 imo. At best they weren’t game breaking and at other times they were so bad I just gave up. Haven’t played the game in months.

Whether people agree on this issue or not we should all remember they hid the game from us last year. No gameplay videos until days before release. The fact it’s been two years of this junk has me losing faith in this series. I won’t be buying day one this year. Not fooling me again.

Yup.

I gave it a pass in 2k21 chalking it up to NG growing pains. The fact it was just as bad in 2k22 has me worried it's a newer legacy issue.

With something like pnr, rotations, help defense being such a fundamental part of basketball, it all being broken in 2K is not good. When you add on the obvious bandaids like chase down blocks and the long loss of control animations, the games just not very good.

I still find some enjoyment in the game because I love basketball but honestly 2k21 and 2k22 are probably my least liked versions of 2k. Which is a shame because everything other than gameplay is quite good.

[xCoachDx]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

It didn’t imo. The defensive rotations and PNR defence were never good. Sometimes the defence would warp or cheat to help make things better but I don’t agree that defence was ever good in next gen. Defensive help and proper rotations have been lousy the last two years on PS5 imo. At best they weren’t game breaking and at other times they were so bad I just gave up. Haven’t played the game in months.

Whether people agree on this issue or not we should all remember they hid the game from us last year. No gameplay videos until days before release. The fact it’s been two years of this junk has me losing faith in this series. I won’t be buying day one this year. Not fooling me again.

Yeah I bought at launch in 21, told myself i wasn’t doing it again. Then i saw how everyone was mind blown over the game, so i got it this year and absolutely loved it at first. Then, Czar came out with the video of turning help off, and I’ve never been so irritated and disappointed with 2K.

I will absolutely, without a DOUBT, not be buying within the first few weeks. I have zero faith in them until they decide to completely overhaul the AI. I mean it’s 2022 and we still have help sliding in from the ball side… (if ever at all) there’s just no excuse to be this far behind at this point.

[alabamarob]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

I haven't played a game since last year. The last 2 years have been disappointing. Following the same path as a certain football game to me.

[jclazaris84]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

I haven't played a game since last year. The last 2 years have been disappointing. Following the same path as a certain football game to me.

damn. i remember you used to be hardcore into it too. 2k's really let down the sim community. wish another studio would step up and start building a foundation for something proper.

funny thing is 2k has so many intricacies as far as simulation, but the basic fundamentals are broke! ugh.

[Baebae32]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

Writing has been on the wall since 2K20. The priorities have shifted. The myCareer/E-sports side of the game is king and the game must be developed to keep that base happy and coming back. No greater evidence of this than the patch earlier this year that disbaled help defense from the corners (whether it be backside or weakside). We know its not the devs but rather the higher ups pushing the game this way.

Makes sense from a business perspective. Just sad to see a series you put so much time into change before your eyes. Either have to accept, adjust or abstain.


Side note: all defensive issues in this game are rooted in the absurd rate that 3 point shots go in. It all branches out from there

[ehh]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

I have largely given up on this series because help defense has been non-existent for years now.

In my Knicks franchise I got tired of Frank Ntilikina averaging 35 PPG on 60% shooting because all you have to do is run a high pick and roll and it's a literal two-man game: the three defenders not involved in the PnR just stand there. I've got Nerlens Noel standing in the corner 3 spot and the defense stays glued to him. It's just awful. My assist numbers are always low because the defense will give up layup after layup because the defense never rotates. In a Mavs franchise, I'm lucky if I get more than five assists with Luka because the defense never helps.

2K does not resemble modern NBA basketball at all. The crisp ball movement, complex defenses rotating all over the place. That stuff is nowhere to be found in 2K. Isolate, run a PnR and get to the cup.

[Gramps91]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

I think the writing was on the wall with 2k18.

I don't really have any interest in a story forced career mode or online modes. I do kinda like MyTeam. I didn't pick the game up until it was $20 and I'll get $20 worth out of it but if nothing changes it'll be the same for me next year if I get it at all.

[AIRJ23]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

You guys are funny. You “won’t buy the game at launch” and will get sucked in when you hear everyone say “wow! They really fixed the defense this time” EXACTLY as what was said about 2K22. Until they patch out the fixes again and rinse, repeat.

I have largely given up on this series because help defense has been non-existent for years now.

In my Knicks franchise I got tired of Frank Ntilikina averaging 35 PPG on 60% shooting because all you have to do is run a high pick and roll and it's a literal two-man game: the three defenders not involved in the PnR just stand there. I've got Nerlens Noel standing in the corner 3 spot and the defense stays glued to him. It's just awful. My assist numbers are always low because the defense will give up layup after layup because the defense never rotates. In a Mavs franchise, I'm lucky if I get more than five assists with Luka because the defense never helps.

2K does not resemble modern NBA basketball at all. The crisp ball movement, complex defenses rotating all over the place. That stuff is nowhere to be found in 2K. Isolate, run a PnR and get to the cup.

Ehhh. I’m glad defenses are nothing like real life. The vast amounts of spacing, lack of lanes and key protection, and rotations or often lack thereof leaving perimeter players constantly wide open would be so easy to exploit in a video game. I think unfortunately the 2K22 style of “defender stuck like glue” is more inherently challenging under a video game dynamic. But yes I’d like more human rotations and IQ. But it gets exploited so often in real life, just imagine how much it would in games. At least in 2K22 I always see defenders doing something.

With defense sliders turned way up I actually enjoy the defense in this game. I see lots of help too.

[xCoachDx]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

You guys are funny. You “won’t buy the game at launch” and will get sucked in when you hear everyone say “wow! They really fixed the defense this time” EXACTLY as what was said about 2K22. Until they patch out the fixes again and rinse, repeat.



Ehhh. I’m glad defenses are nothing like real life. The vast amounts of spacing, lack of lanes and key protection, and rotations or often lack thereof leaving perimeter players constantly wide open would be so easy to exploit in a video game. I think unfortunately the 2K22 style of “defender stuck like glue” is more inherently challenging under a video game dynamic. But yes I’d like more human rotations and IQ. But it gets exploited so often in real life, just imagine how much it would in games. At least in 2K22 I always see defenders doing something.

With defense sliders turned way up I actually enjoy the defense in this game. I see lots of help too.

Wish I had your copy. Haven’t seen defenders do anything in months other than the occasional ball side help which shouldn’t happen to begin with..

[Gramps91]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

You guys are funny. You “won’t buy the game at launch” and will get sucked in when you hear everyone say “wow! They really fixed the defense this time” EXACTLY as what was said about 2K22. Until they patch out the fixes again and rinse, repeat.



Ehhh. I’m glad defenses are nothing like real life. The vast amounts of spacing, lack of lanes and key protection, and rotations or often lack thereof leaving perimeter players constantly wide open would be so easy to exploit in a video game. I think unfortunately the 2K22 style of “defender stuck like glue” is more inherently challenging under a video game dynamic. But yes I’d like more human rotations and IQ. But it gets exploited so often in real life, just imagine how much it would in games. At least in 2K22 I always see defenders doing something.

With defense sliders turned way up I actually enjoy the defense in this game. I see lots of help too.

You can't know WHY I bought the game. I didn't hear anybody say they fixed defense. I knew going in I wouldn't be fully happy with the game but I'll get my money's worth and that's all I care about.

[EccentricMeat]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

100% not buying the next 2K at launch (for the first time since 2K8), and I honestly don’t know if I’ll bother getting the game, period. 2K22 was pretty damn good the first few days, but the patches completely ruined the offline gameplay as 2K chased the Twitter and MyPark crowd. This is yet another year of them pulling away from sim gamers and I don’t see that reversing course any time soon.

The game has sucked for years now and continues to get worse. Not only are the gameplay issues unsolvable with roster and slider tweaks (and these have been the same issues year after year, further proof that 2K just aren’t even trying anymore), but the game is just plain boring to play. It doesn’t resemble basketball anymore. And it’s a chore to even try to make what only amount to minor improvements to the game.

God I hope an actual competitor shows itself, or else this series is dead. Same story for FIFA and Madden. Sports games need competition, or they get run into the ground.

Congrats 2K. Take a bow.

[VictorMG]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

Not only are the gameplay issues unsolvable with roster and slider tweaks

I think this is the biggest issue. Even if the game is undeniably, unapologetically geared and catered towards non-sim players, if we could use tendencies and sliders to get the game into a good place for sim players, we'd be fine.

But that's not the case. It may have been the case once, but definitely not now.

[ataman5]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

Removing the cutter help defense was such a bad idea and turned the game into an arcade one in ways which i will explain below.

Our league is a Sim oriented league we highly express using more set plays when playing 48 minutes games to our coaches in the league.

So over the years all of our users have been using more and more set plays etc. but as the cutter help has been removed most set plays have become the point of cheesing the game even more, on one side you want to play a basketball game in which calling plays is sim but on the other hand as they removed cutter helps, calling plays turned it to a cheesefest rather than a sim approach we intend. A very big dilemma as you may understand.

The game lacked a lot in this way,too. I hope that though i'm sure our hopes won't last long but 2k23 will be a better represantation of real basketball of playing team defense. I don't want over powered cheesy defense, what i like to see is fundemantals in the game when on defense where good d is there and rewarded.

Celtics making the final should give some boost on Def side of things for 2k to start caring at least they must see that the basketball is on the horizon of a change in which D will start getting more attention not only on the real courts but on the eyes of newcomers, new young generations,too. Keep and get ahead of the change 2k. Please.