2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread

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  • wwharton
    *ll St*r
    • Aug 2002
    • 26949

    #2161
    Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread

    Originally posted by Drewski
    For sure. But I mean, look at the Lakers PG situation. How can they not start taking a very calculated gamble at a PG. I don't think a 2nd round PG will make an impact though, I'm not sure what they can do there. Probably should have chased down Felton but ah well.
    Time will tell... I don't think they were going to find the player they need in the draft.

    Comment

    • Drewski
      Basketball Reasons
      • Jun 2011
      • 3783

      #2162
      Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread

      Originally posted by wwharton
      Time will tell... I don't think they were going to find the player they need in the draft.

      Not in the 2nd round... still feel like they should have chased down Kemba.
      Follow me on Twitter@DrewGarrisonSBN

      Comment

      • wwharton
        *ll St*r
        • Aug 2002
        • 26949

        #2163
        Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread

        Originally posted by Drewski
        Not in the 2nd round... still feel like they should have chased down Kemba.
        That's easy to say, figuratively minutes after the draft. I don't think this team is out of the championship talk and, more importantly, I don't think they believe that either. In that case, I doubt they're looking for a rookie to be their starting PG next year... especially with losing whatever significant piece they'd have to move to get that high in the draft.

        They still have plenty of time to go after free agents and/or make trades for vets that will be better fits NEXT YEAR than anyone coming out of the draft.

        Comment

        • Drewski
          Basketball Reasons
          • Jun 2011
          • 3783

          #2164
          Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread

          Originally posted by wwharton
          That's easy to say, figuratively minutes after the draft. I don't think this team is out of the championship talk and, more importantly, I don't think they believe that either. In that case, I doubt they're looking for a rookie to be their starting PG next year... especially with losing whatever significant piece they'd have to move to get that high in the draft.

          They still have plenty of time to go after free agents and/or make trades for vets that will be better fits NEXT YEAR than anyone coming out of the draft.
          Yes this is all true, I suppose they are better off NEXT YEAR with this years team as opposed to losing whatever they would have had to to grab Kemba (I didn't expect him going 9th, not because he wasn't deserving higher but because there was alot pointing to his stock not being very hot - Detroit taking Brandon Knight probably stopped him from falling, although Toronto Grabbing J-Val was a I'm-sort-of-shocked-but-this-is-Toronto pick to me I figured they were going Knight). Anyway, not a Lakers thread so I'm gonna go ahead and dip outta here and continue my love for the NBA and not just one team.
          Follow me on Twitter@DrewGarrisonSBN

          Comment

          • wwharton
            *ll St*r
            • Aug 2002
            • 26949

            #2165
            Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread

            Originally posted by Drewski
            Yes this is all true, I suppose they are better off NEXT YEAR with this years team as opposed to losing whatever they would have had to to grab Kemba (I didn't expect him going 9th, not because he wasn't deserving higher but because there was alot pointing to his stock not being very hot - Detroit taking Brandon Knight probably stopped him from falling, although Toronto Grabbing J-Val was a I'm-sort-of-shocked-but-this-is-Toronto pick to me I figured they were going Knight). Anyway, not a Lakers thread so I'm gonna go ahead and dip outta here and continue my love for the NBA and not just one team.
            It's a draft thread... you're still on topic, lol. The Lakers would've had to trade into the top 10 to be sure they were going to get him. That's a fact now, obviously, but if they were to make a predraft trade for a pick, I don't see them doing it for less than a top 10 pick. And you also have to consider potential trading partners (Minn was the biggest and we know the price tag) and the players they have worth trading that high. And even if they pulled off a head scratcher of a trade, I still don't like them with a rookie PG starting next season.

            Comment

            • Drewski
              Basketball Reasons
              • Jun 2011
              • 3783

              #2166
              Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread

              Originally posted by wwharton
              It's a draft thread... you're still on topic, lol. The Lakers would've had to trade into the top 10 to be sure they were going to get him. That's a fact now, obviously, but if they were to make a predraft trade for a pick, I don't see them doing it for less than a top 10 pick. And you also have to consider potential trading partners (Minn was the biggest and we know the price tag) and the players they have worth trading that high. And even if they pulled off a head scratcher of a trade, I still don't like them with a rookie PG starting next season.
              Not sure, I like them with Kemba. He gives them quickness, youth, some quick hands, and the fact that he wouldnt have to put more than Derek Fisher has had to put on his shoulders, which isn't much honestly. They would have had to package up what... Pau + ? for a top 10 pick + something, not sure how many teams would want to jump at Pau in that position. And we all know Jim buss isn't giving up BYNUM for a new draft pick, that'd be the ultimate concession of defeat and he'd never be able to stomach it. I mean, I'd really take a look at doing it for K. Love + ?, but even then... balance on both sides seems wishy washy. Just wish that PG position could have been adressed - Reggie Jackson would have been a great pickup to ride the bench, make sure he's healthy, then start working with him.
              Follow me on Twitter@DrewGarrisonSBN

              Comment

              • wwharton
                *ll St*r
                • Aug 2002
                • 26949

                #2167
                Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread

                Originally posted by Drewski
                Not sure, I like them with Kemba. He gives them quickness, youth, some quick hands, and the fact that he wouldnt have to put more than Derek Fisher has had to put on his shoulders, which isn't much honestly. They would have had to package up what... Pau + ? for a top 10 pick + something, not sure how many teams would want to jump at Pau in that position. And we all know Jim buss isn't giving up BYNUM for a new draft pick, that'd be the ultimate concession of defeat and he'd never be able to stomach it. I mean, I'd really take a look at doing it for K. Love + ?, but even then... balance on both sides seems wishy washy. Just wish that PG position could have been adressed - Reggie Jackson would have been a great pickup to ride the bench, make sure he's healthy, then start working with him.
                When you start factoring in other players that changes the discussion completely so, even though it would've probably been necessary, I'm just going to focus of the make up of the team. Getting rid of Pau or Odom (who have both proven their worth on championship teams) for a shot at a rookie PG wouldn't make any sense to me. And for as much heat as Fisher gets (and deserves) his experience, leadership, comfort playing with Kobe and ability to be a contributing factor despite obvious declining skills shouldn't be overlooked. Throwing a rookie PG into the triangle or a new system and asking him to run any team, let alone with an alpha like Kobe is a bit much. Plus we're talking about a team with aging vets that may only have one realistic shot at another ring. We can't even expect that Irving would've been able to pull that off.

                I honestly think starting Blake all year would make more sense than any rookie, and we both think they need an upgrade to Blake so... there you go, lol.

                Comment

                • Drewski
                  Basketball Reasons
                  • Jun 2011
                  • 3783

                  #2168
                  Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread

                  Originally posted by wwharton
                  When you start factoring in other players that changes the discussion completely so, even though it would've probably been necessary, I'm just going to focus of the make up of the team. Getting rid of Pau or Odom (who have both proven their worth on championship teams) for a shot at a rookie PG wouldn't make any sense to me. And for as much heat as Fisher gets (and deserves) his experience, leadership, comfort playing with Kobe and ability to be a contributing factor despite obvious declining skills shouldn't be overlooked. Throwing a rookie PG into the triangle or a new system and asking him to run any team, let alone with an alpha like Kobe is a bit much. Plus we're talking about a team with aging vets that may only have one realistic shot at another ring. We can't even expect that Irving would've been able to pull that off.

                  I honestly think starting Blake all year would make more sense than any rookie, and we both think they need an upgrade to Blake so... there you go, lol.
                  LoL yeah pretty much. It's early and flavor of the monthy, but that Lakers team just doesn't look like it has a legitimate chance at winning a ring together again (hello me in about a year when I reflect on this post and hopefully realize how wrong I was). The PG situation is atrocious. I really think they need to clear out either Odom or Pau, with Odom being a bit more realistic because he's got a friendly contract and is coming off of a pretty good season (6MANOTY), but Pau having a talent advantage so probably fetching more than what an Odom/Kardashian package could grab up. Odom doesn't field them a top 15 pick, though. So there's really no way about it.

                  I wouldn't be overly concerned about a rookie PG playing the position, I think he'd essentially get the Rondo five star treatment in that environment. Think alot of the ballhandling would go to Kobe (what changes there ), and if they took the time and really worked with a rookie PG they could get him up to speed and they'd have the infusion they desperately need.

                  All in dream land though now.
                  Follow me on Twitter@DrewGarrisonSBN

                  Comment

                  • wwharton
                    *ll St*r
                    • Aug 2002
                    • 26949

                    #2169
                    Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread

                    Originally posted by Drewski
                    LoL yeah pretty much. It's early and flavor of the monthy, but that Lakers team just doesn't look like it has a legitimate chance at winning a ring together again (hello me in about a year when I reflect on this post and hopefully realize how wrong I was). The PG situation is atrocious. I really think they need to clear out either Odom or Pau, with Odom being a bit more realistic because he's got a friendly contract and is coming off of a pretty good season (6MANOTY), but Pau having a talent advantage so probably fetching more than what an Odom/Kardashian package could grab up. Odom doesn't field them a top 15 pick, though. So there's really no way about it.

                    I wouldn't be overly concerned about a rookie PG playing the position, I think he'd essentially get the Rondo five star treatment in that environment. Think alot of the ballhandling would go to Kobe (what changes there ), and if they took the time and really worked with a rookie PG they could get him up to speed and they'd have the infusion they desperately need.

                    All in dream land though now.
                    This is the team that's a year removed from back to back championships, right? Just making sure .

                    It's possible the window has closed, but if it has then it's closed forever with Kobe as the focal point so you might as well blow the whole thing up.

                    Now, with that said, there's also a chance that it's still slightly open... and in that regard, the team is pretty close to the team that just won back to back championships and that was with a banged up Kobe and Bynum. I'll look at Gasol's career and assume he'll be what he's been every year before last year's playoffs. Artest is the only main piece I see possibly taking a huge step backwards and his BBIQ is high enough for him to know his role either way. This team wasn't a PG away from a 3peat... they were without focus. Anything else that may have effected them either means the window is closed, new PG or not, or wasn't that significant. And as bad as Blake was, playing with chicken pox can't be ignored either.

                    I think people are too quick to either blow stuff up, or bring in a BIG piece that's supposed to complete a puzzle. These vets will need to grow together again under a new coach and a rookie at arguably the most important position for running an offense just isn't a good risk to take imo.

                    Comment

                    • Drewski
                      Basketball Reasons
                      • Jun 2011
                      • 3783

                      #2170
                      Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread

                      Originally posted by wwharton
                      This is the team that's a year removed from back to back championships, right? Just making sure .

                      It's possible the window has closed, but if it has then it's closed forever with Kobe as the focal point so you might as well blow the whole thing up.

                      Now, with that said, there's also a chance that it's still slightly open... and in that regard, the team is pretty close to the team that just won back to back championships and that was with a banged up Kobe and Bynum. I'll look at Gasol's career and assume he'll be what he's been every year before last year's playoffs. Artest is the only main piece I see possibly taking a huge step backwards and his BBIQ is high enough for him to know his role either way. This team wasn't a PG away from a 3peat... they were without focus. Anything else that may have effected them either means the window is closed, new PG or not, or wasn't that significant. And as bad as Blake was, playing with chicken pox can't be ignored either.

                      I think people are too quick to either blow stuff up, or bring in a BIG piece that's supposed to complete a puzzle. These vets will need to grow together again under a new coach and a rookie at arguably the most important position for running an offense just isn't a good risk to take imo.
                      I'm with it as a Laker fan, but realistically I think the window is shut when you look at that team. Kobe hasn't been playing smart enough. His exit interview basically saying im taking 26 shots, Pau can take 16, and Drew can shut his mouth left me pretty doubtful this team will ever find it's balance again. I love Kobe, but he needs to let the gas go a little bit, or outright prove me wrong. The chemistry was off, I felt the bad mojo every playoff game. They didn't even play well enough, in my opinion, to deserve to have been let out of the 1st round. Lackadaisical? That's an insult to the word. That team, from top to almost bottom (PG situation is beyond bottom), should have at the very least FOUGHT the Mavs. I'm not saying they didn't try but I can't really fathom how they can be swept. Maybe I should be more concerned with that Hornets series than the Mavs series though. Actually, I should be.

                      Its a bit triggery, but I'm just not hearing the right things from them. Team has some major issues. Blowing it up seems crazy. But is it? Even if they did grab D-12 somehow, would Kobe finally be willing to stop this whole I'm #1 and that's how it's always going to play out on the court, business? If he treated Drew like he'd treat Dwight, I think there'd be some progress to be made.

                      Erm. Now it's off-topic. Rookies.../crickets
                      Follow me on Twitter@DrewGarrisonSBN

                      Comment

                      • wwharton
                        *ll St*r
                        • Aug 2002
                        • 26949

                        #2171
                        Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread

                        Originally posted by Drewski
                        I'm with it as a Laker fan, but realistically I think the window is shut when you look at that team. Kobe hasn't been playing smart enough. His exit interview basically saying im taking 26 shots, Pau can take 16, and Drew can shut his mouth left me pretty doubtful this team will ever find it's balance again. I love Kobe, but he needs to let the gas go a little bit, or outright prove me wrong. The chemistry was off, I felt the bad mojo every playoff game. They didn't even play well enough, in my opinion, to deserve to have been let out of the 1st round. Lackadaisical? That's an insult to the word. That team, from top to almost bottom (PG situation is beyond bottom), should have at the very least FOUGHT the Mavs. I'm not saying they didn't try but I can't really fathom how they can be swept. Maybe I should be more concerned with that Hornets series than the Mavs series though. Actually, I should be.

                        Its a bit triggery, but I'm just not hearing the right things from them. Team has some major issues. Blowing it up seems crazy. But is it? Even if they did grab D-12 somehow, would Kobe finally be willing to stop this whole I'm #1 and that's how it's always going to play out on the court, business? If he treated Drew like he'd treat Dwight, I think there'd be some progress to be made.

                        Erm. Now it's off-topic. Rookies.../crickets
                        But that was last year and nothing you said has anything to do with the talent of the players. So, to bring it back on topic, I don't see any reason to go chasing a rookie PG, lol. And as far as blowing it up, then you might as well trade Kobe... otherwise, there's no reason not to tweak and work on the culture. Probably why Mike Brown was more attractive than Brian Shaw. But yes, whatever needs to happen with the Lakers, pushing for a PG in the top 10 picks would've been nothing but a band aid for the fans, and they would've needed to open another wound (by trading a star) to get it. Wouldn't have made any sense (imo of course).

                        Comment

                        • Drewski
                          Basketball Reasons
                          • Jun 2011
                          • 3783

                          #2172
                          Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread

                          Originally posted by wwharton
                          But that was last year and nothing you said has anything to do with the talent of the players. So, to bring it back on topic, I don't see any reason to go chasing a rookie PG, lol. And as far as blowing it up, then you might as well trade Kobe... otherwise, there's no reason not to tweak and work on the culture. Probably why Mike Brown was more attractive than Brian Shaw. But yes, whatever needs to happen with the Lakers, pushing for a PG in the top 10 picks would've been nothing but a band aid for the fans, and they would've needed to open another wound (by trading a star) to get it. Wouldn't have made any sense (imo of course).
                          It's not realistic, but I don't think it's farfetched to say the Lakers would be doing the best long term thing to blow up Kobe, Odom, and Pau at the very least, and start bringing in a new wave while they can still get SOMETHING for those guys (I'm looking at you Kobe). Hard to say, still don't believe I'd ever even think it, but if I detach myself emotionally from Kobe and identify myself as a basketball fan, I wouldn't completely shut my ears and scream at any Kobe offers. It'll never happen though. From either side.
                          Follow me on Twitter@DrewGarrisonSBN

                          Comment

                          • l3ulvl
                            Hall Of Fame
                            • Dec 2009
                            • 17245

                            #2173
                            Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread

                            I think Morris is a very solid pick for the Lakers. I've heard the triangle mentioned, and I don't follow the Lakers so I have no idea if Brown will try to continue running it, but I love Morris. Realistically he needed another year in school, if he'd stayed I wouldn't be surprised if he was a top 20 pick next year, if not the lottery. Was hoping the Pistons would pick him up in the 2nd this year, but after the Knight pick it wasn't necessary. Kid has really good playmaking instinct and vision, even though those terms get thrown around a lot. Plus could develop a Billups style post game, he's already pretty decent down there.
                            Wolverines Wings Same Old Lions Tigers Pistons Erika Christensen

                            Comment

                            • ex carrabba fan
                              I'll thank him for you
                              • Oct 2004
                              • 32744

                              #2174
                              Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread

                              No, the triangle is gone. Brown has an entirely new offense.
                              Originally posted by wwharton
                              Seems the thinking is the Lakers drafted a few players they knew would have no chance of making the roster so they wouldn't even have to worry about signing them. That's the only explanation I've heard that actually makes some of these picks make sense.
                              I have no idea what makes you think they have no chance of making the roster. Seriously. They drafted two point guards, which is their biggest need.

                              They drafted one guy who many "experts" say should have gone higher. They say he could be one of the best passers in the draft. They also drafted the second best shooter in the draft. These both happened in the second round, so I think they got pretty good value.

                              I'm more than sure they have a decent shot of getting a roster spot.

                              Comment

                              • wwharton
                                *ll St*r
                                • Aug 2002
                                • 26949

                                #2175
                                Re: 2011 NBA Draft Discussion Thread

                                Originally posted by ex carrabba fan
                                No, the triangle is gone. Brown has an entirely new offense.

                                I have no idea what makes you think they have no chance of making the roster. Seriously. They drafted two point guards, which is their biggest need.

                                They drafted one guy who many "experts" say should have gone higher. They say he could be one of the best passers in the draft. They also drafted the second best shooter in the draft. These both happened in the second round, so I think they got pretty good value.

                                I'm more than sure they have a decent shot of getting a roster spot.
                                Honestly, I was repeating what I heard from an analysis and didn't take another look at who they picked. I remembered Morris and the shooter you're talking about so I assumed there were 2 other picks that were considered throw aways. It made more sense to me bc I didn't see any rhyme or reason for the guys they picked but if you have a reasonable explanation then I could go with that. I thought they only took one PG, no?

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