2023 Offseason Thread

[ProfessaPackMan]

2023 Offseason Thread

If they’re guaranteeing the full salary anyways (which it sounds like they are), I’d probably just keep him for the year if he’s willing to cooperate. I do think he’d help them evaluate the rest of the roster in the very least.

Now if a team offers a first round pick for him or something, I probably move him, but I don’t see that happening and don’t think I’d bother trading him just for expirings when he’s basically an expiring too.


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For me, it’s moreso when has Ted ever paid someone not to play? Lol

And the other thing to me is even get that, it would require them building his value back up by playing him(Dawkins was with him when he got traded to OKC and at the time, people thought they would buy him out too)and developing young guys with him.

Edit: Should add this should be what the Wizards need to do instead of moving him to the Clippers of what Haynes reported is accurate.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: 2023 Offseason Thread

Smart move by Phoenix to add more salary filler/bodies when they'll only have five players under contract.

Goodwin showed he can play NBA - level defense & could be a valuable backup PG.

Todd is still an intriguing prospect but needs more time to develop.

Official HQ of Bills Backer/Spurs Nation

Interesting that Washington is giving their young guys away too. Guess they’re really trying to start over with a totally clean slate. I wonder if they’re angling to pick up more draft picks this year.


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Goodwin's inclusions is what is causing a total breakdown on the Wizards subreddit and other social media.

It is wild, we went from "I hope we can get X" to "man I hope we also don't have to give up..."

[Majingir]

Re: 2023 Offseason Thread

Boy that's a tough one ... wait no it isn't lol.

That's why I said rank, not which is the best. We know what #1 is.

But how would you rank all the others even if their playing time together was very small (or do you rank the teams based on how they looked on paper?)

Surprised ESPN hasn't done that yet, this is easy middle of summer hour long pointless discussion.

[J_Posse]

Re: 2023 Offseason Thread

Interesting that Washington is giving their young guys away too. Guess they’re really trying to start over with a totally clean slate. I wonder if they’re angling to pick up more draft picks this year.


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They still have Deni, Corey, Daniel, and Johnny Davis (I'm probably forgetting someone).

The cupboard isn'y completely bare but they definitely are going full-on tank mode. Just doing it a year too late since the '24 draft class is considered "weak."

Goodwin's inclusions is what is causing a total breakdown on the Wizards subreddit and other social media.

It is wild, we went from "I hope we can get X" to "man I hope we also don't have to give up..."

He's solid but replaceable. They did a good job of signing and developing him (and a few other UFA's), so I doubt they can't do it again.

Official HQ of Bills Backer/Spurs Nation

[ojandpizza]

Re: 2023 Offseason Thread

They still have Deni, Daniel, and Johnny Davis (I'm probably forgetting someone).

The cupboard is completely bare but they definitely are going full-on tank mode. Just doing it a year too late since the '24 draft class is considered "weak."

Official HQ of Bills Backer/Spurs Nation

Kispert who has probably surpassed all those guys as far as his role/minutes on the team goes.

Gafford IMO doesn't have a ceiling much higher than what he is, best bet for him is keep improving from the neck up and get on a contender like Tyson Chandler, JaVale McGee, etc..

I would think Washington should be open to trading him for pick(s) or a young big with more upside that maybe hasn't broke out yet. Bagley, Wiseman, **** I woulda pushed him and Kuz for Ayton back in the CP3 trade or something even.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: 2023 Offseason Thread

They still have Deni, Corey, Daniel, and Johnny Davis (I'm probably forgetting someone).

The cupboard isn'y completely bare but they definitely are going full-on tank mode. Just doing it a year too late since the '24 draft class is considered "weak."




He's solid but replaceable. They did a good job of signing and developing him (and a few other UFA's), so I doubt they can't do it again.

Official HQ of Bills Backer/Spurs Nation

Gafford is about to turn 25. I wouldn’t really categorize him as a prospect. He’s a vet at this point.

Deni hasn’t really improved much since entering the league. Seems like he might just be what he is but you never really know. Either way, not exactly an exciting young player at this point; more a guy that you’re hoping proves to be a useful bench piece or 5th starter.

Kispert showed some stuff down the stretch last year. Hopefully he can continue to build on his game. He was drafted as a guy that you’d expect to kinda be a finished product but I’m optimistic with him.

Davis at least showed he has a pulse down the stretch. Hopefully he takes a huge step forward in his second year but he was another guy that was perceived to be more or less a finished product entering the league. I just don’t think he should have been a lottery pick personally and his rookie season was obviously a pretty major disappointment. But again, only his rookie year, hopefully he can improve.

Kispert is the only guy that seems to have more than a long shot chance of being a long term building block for them IMO.

Hopefully whoever they take this year is a home run. I want to go to some Wizards games next season but they seem poised to be the brutal combination of very bad and also not particularly exciting.


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[jeebs9]

Re: 2023 Offseason Thread

That's why I said rank, not which is the best. We know what #1 is.

But how would you rank all the others even if their playing time together was very small (or do you rank the teams based on how they looked on paper?)

Surprised ESPN hasn't done that yet, this is easy middle of summer hour long pointless discussion.

Totally agree! [emoji23] Hours of ****

[ProfessaPackMan]

2023 Offseason Thread

They don’t need any more young players and they don’t need to be embracing a full on tank because that benefits nobody in that organization. They don’t need to be sacrificing Ws just for some false hope in another draft class.

Player Development and making sure those guys all develop GOOD habits on/off the court should be a priority for them otherwise it’s another Rockets situation. And considering who they brought over from OKC, that should be the model they go after.

And don’t conflate this with me saying “Pack is saying they need to build to compete right away” because I’m not.

[ojandpizza]

2023 Offseason Thread

I’m typically with Pack when it comes to the full on tank year after year thing… but you almost have to embrace it for at least a year or two.. otherwise you don’t have anything worth developing.

Think they almost have to tank for a year or two, then try to add some vet pieces around that. Houston has been a mess, but they are at the add some vets stage now. Green, Jabari, Sengun all appear to have all-star potential if they start trying to win/develop. Washington doesn’t have those pieces.

Again maybe they avoided having to do that by trading Beal when he had value, but that’s just another way that contract sorta screwed them after the fact.

If they have a way to dump Kuz, Porzingis, I think they should. Try to get what assets you can. Go full on tank and hopefully hit a high pick. If you don’t want to be stuck there for more than a year use all that cleared cap space to land, even over-pay, a few free agents other teams aren’t really putting as a first priority. This free agency class isn’t all that anyways.

If this group showed any signs of just being a decent team things might be different. If you’re selling seats I’d rather be a decent team and fun to watch than a team at the bottom 3. You’ve probably got just as good of a shot as landing the next Steph, Kawhi, Giannis in the teens as you do wining the lottery and drafting the next face of the league. Look at Detroit getting stuck at 4 this year. But there is no promise with this group currently. No reason to really even push for mediocrity with the hope that you’ll eventually build your team around Kispert.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: 2023 Offseason Thread

I’m typically with Pack when it comes to the full on tank year after year thing… but you almost have to embrace it for at least a year or two.. otherwise you don’t have anything worth developing.

Think they almost have to tank for a year or two, then try to add some vet pieces around that. Houston has been a mess, but they are at the add some vets stage now. Green, Jabari, Sengun all appear to have all-star potential if they start trying to win/develop. Washington doesn’t have those pieces.

Again maybe they avoided having to do that by trading Beal when he had value, but that’s just another way that contract sorta screwed them after the fact.

If they have a way to dump Kuz, Porzingis, I think they should. Try to get what assets you can. Go full on tank and hopefully hit a high pick. If you don’t want to be stuck there for more than a year use all that cleared cap space to land, even over-pay, a few free agents other teams aren’t really putting as a first priority. This free agency class isn’t all that anyways.

I hear you.

My thing is this though: Why do they NEED to do it, especially for the next 1-2 years when all that does is have them develop bad habits as a team?

Even if they let Kuzma and Porzingis go, it shouldn’t automatically go into “Ok guys, this is a lost year anyway so just play bad and worry about 2024-25 instead”.

You mentioned Houston being at the add vets stage now. The reason they’re at that stage isn’t because they progressed naturally growth wise but because of how bad things were there off the court and the fact that Ownership pretty much told them to make the playoffs as soon as next year. And if that’s their edict for next year, then it pretty much tells you how important player development is to them(not that important anymore), especially when they’re making a run at Harden and if they get him back, some of those young players could get moved for vets/established players now

It’s not even about building around one person next year or developing one person. They barely did that the last few years because Leonsis pretty much had them on a “be good enough to get a play-in spot” edict for the last few years so development hasn’t exactly been a priority for them this year.

They can do that this year…but it doesn’t mean they need to sacrifice Ws because that won’t benefit anyone(never has if we’re being honest). Now if they end up being bad because a bunch of guys got hurt, then that’s one thing.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: 2023 Offseason Thread

I don't know where this puts them on the tank train, but they absolutely should explore trading anyone over the age of 25.

Doesn't mean the under-25 guys should go out and sacrifice Ws in order to tank. Those young dudes should be playing their rears off trying to fight for every win. Also doesn't mean they need to trade everyone over the age of 25, only they should be open to it. But if a deal involving an older player doesn't make sense don't do it just because trading away older players is a rule of tanking.

Guess it comes down to what tanking means to you.

"We are going to try to lose as many games as possible this year to maximize draft position" Hell no they shouldn't do that.

"We know this isn't a winning team right now, so our goal is to develop for the future" Yeah thats what they should do

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: 2023 Offseason Thread

The last one is fine and pretty much what I lean towards.

But that can be done without outright punting on a season(and yes I’m aware they won’t say the quiet part out loud)because again, that benefits nobody. Not the coaches and certainly not the players.

To me, I feel like tanking is more nuanced than just “Cut all good players, play all bad players, draft high, success”. Not saying anyone HERE believes that but generally when people think of that word, that’s the first thing their mind goes to.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: 2023 Offseason Thread

If you're gonna tank, then you absolutely do need to go all in on that and get rid of as much good talent as you can cause if you do it half way, you end up like the Bulls. With a bunch of guys just good enough to win just enough games to have you picking 7th for 37 years straight.

That said, just blowing everything up every time your team hits a bump in the road isn't the answer either even though fans have convinced themselves that tanking is this magic elixir to instantaneous success.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: 2023 Offseason Thread

You mean this isn't accurate?

Year 1: Tank baby
Year 2: The savior arrives
Year 3: Get us that championship

[Master Live 013]

Re: 2023 Offseason Thread

Come on, this can't be how it ends. CP3 on the Wizards? Really?