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the Good, the Bad and the Ugly; theSliderWhizperer’s M15 - GAME CHANGER SLIDERS

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Old 11-25-2014, 02:35 PM   #217
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Re: the Good, the Bad and the Ugly; theSliderWhizperer’s M15 - GAME CHANGER SLIDERS

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGBLU422
Who knows what the patch do but my $ is on a delay til Christmas. He's brought up enough insightful points and laid out logical linear way to tackle the sliders which is damn difficult considering how many branches connect on the tree. Getting everything perfect is important and should be supported. If the story holds true he's putting in the needed time (besides typing here!).. and no one like this could settle with incomplete results on such an immersive effort.

We should all hope the patch, messes with the Brew.. at one point I was worried Tiburon couldn't fix this for M16. Lots of playing to do but I've seen a couple encouraging signs.

Time will tell for these sliders quickly. Love these levels, 5*. Takes me back to the days of NVG.
So far all I have seen is a lot of gobbledygook and no substance.
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Old 11-25-2014, 08:38 PM   #218
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Re: the Good, the Bad and the Ugly; theSliderWhizperer’s M15 - GAME CHANGER SLIDERS

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Originally Posted by TheWood56
Happily. I don't pretend to have the perfect slider set, because everyone has a different skill level and different style of play. People also have vastly different perspectives on how the game should play and what they see on Sundays. I've found an enjoyable and realistic set for myself but (which I'm still looking to improve). I'm a sim style player with what I'd consider moderate stick skills, but never play online so wouldn't know. Like I said but, I'm a sim style player. Playing Madden any other way just wouldn't be enjoyable for me as you can seriously exploit the game if you choose to do so. I've exclusively played on All-Pro every single Madden I've had. I then moved to All-Madden this year as people said the game played well with no cheat feel to it. I was using a variation of JoshC1977's All-Madden sliders and was getting good games (after tweaking). I then heard some posters say the gameplay and animations and overall smoothness really shined on Pro, so I figured why not give that a go, and I have to say it's been pretty good. The biggest problem I faced was adjusting sliders enough to make a competitive game. You obviously need to give the CPU a big advantage and the USER a big disadvantage as to not easily win every game, which was happening when I first tried Pro. I've now tweaked enough and found an enjoyable and playable set (for me personally). It's not overly difficulty, but it's not easy per se either. Every game feels different and I find certain challenges depending on the teams and matchups. Every play in the play book actually seems like a viable option too, where as on All-Madden some plays just don't work regardless because of the AI. You'll almost certainly need to adjust for yourself, but there's no super human DB play or that psychic feel which you eluded to before. The QB goes deep on me too. They've burnt me deep many times and have often finished with a higher YPA than me (and I regularly call cover 3 defense). I've witnessed the automatic check down robo QB's too, but overall the good outweighs the bad, and every game is different for me not to throw out the baby with the bath water after one flawed experience. Example, I played Broncos two games in a row with the Steelers, and both games played VERY different. The first, Manning went robo QB with a high completion % and mostly short stuff. The second, he regularly went deep but struggled massively hitting just 50% of his throws. It's not at all uncommon for me to see the CPU regularly complete anywhere from 50-70% of their passes with a few long balls mixed in, which is what I want. The sack issue is mostly gone with the odd 6+ sack game here and there, but again, the good outweighs the bad for me, so I just take it as any given Sunday. I feel the run game on both sides is slightly overpowered (particularly for the user), but not overbearing. It's something I'm looking to address but, potentially through penalty sliders. I have no house rules, but call my plays from the suggestion screen as I feel the CPU's play calling puts them at a disadvantage, so I always pick one of the suggested plays for myself. I also don't go audible crazy to exploit match ups, but that obviously falls under sim style player which I mentioned before. I'm still constantly looking to better the game myself and make tweaks. It's frustration at times but ultimately I enjoy it. I also actually enjoy the game but, which it seems many here don't. I hope these sliders can at least give you a base to work off of and make the game somewhat playable. Not for my sliders sake as I'm not trying to be right or even produce a slider set for others, but for yours.

Difficulty: Pro
Game Speed: Normal
Injuries: 51
Fatigue: 61
Threshold: 0

USER – CPU
QBA: 3 – 66
Pass Block: 0 – 99
Catch: 44 – 44
Run Block: 0 – 99
Fumble: 10 – 50
Reaction Time: 10 – 55
INT: 0 – 44
Coverage: 10 – 99
Tackle: 10 – 44

Offside: 80
False Start: 50
Holding: 50
Facemask: 50
DPI: 10
OPI: 10
KR/PR Interference: 80
Clipping: 50
Grounding: 50
Rough Passer: 50
Rough Kicker: 50

FG Power: 50 – 55
FG Accuracy: 0 – 44
Punt Power: 50 – 52
Punt Accuracy: 0 – 99
Kick Power: 50 – 52
First off, thank you for your response and very well articulated explanation of your sliders. Anything below All Madden for me generally feels to easy. Unfortunately, I haven't found the right tweaks to make the level really feel realistic and enjoyable. Ultimately I would love to play a game of Madden where the personal player ratings actually meant something. To be honest I've never tried to play the game on pro but if it gives me what I'm looking for I'll give it a shot. Thanks again for taking the time to share your settings.
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Old 11-26-2014, 12:52 AM   #219
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Re: the Good, the Bad and the Ugly; theSliderWhizperer’s M15 - GAME CHANGER SLIDERS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acts 4 12
First off, thank you for your response and very well articulated explanation of your sliders. Anything below All Madden for me generally feels to easy. Unfortunately, I haven't found the right tweaks to make the level really feel realistic and enjoyable. Ultimately I would love to play a game of Madden where the personal player ratings actually meant something. To be honest I've never tried to play the game on pro but if it gives me what I'm looking for I'll give it a shot. Thanks again for taking the time to share your settings.
No dramas at all. Best of luck with it. I know the unrealistic and unenjoyable feeling all too well. This year but, I've actually played with a few enjoyable slider sets on both All-Pro and All-Madden. Like always but, it took constant tweaking. Had some good experiences, but always left me wanting more. Now, I'm rolling with this Pro set after hearing good things about the gameplay and animations. Was something different I've never tried before and thought I'd give it a shot. Again, I continually tweaked until I found myself an enjoyable experience. It's not perfect, but I've had some very good and vastly different games play out.

Example, I just played two games then. First was Redskins (me) vs Bears (cpu). I carved them up on the ground with Morris and had success passing with RGIII. On the other side, Cutler seemed content to take sacks as opposed to sling the ball and take risks while behind. Was an easy win.

Next game, Jaguars (me) vs Patriots (cpu). Decided to play @ Gillette Stadium in the snow. Figured zero chance I should win this game. Well, that was correct. I lost 33-16 on 10 minute quarters. Brady to Gronkowski was happening all game, and I couldn't even stop Vereen on the ground who took a 90+ yarder to the house when I had them backed up on their own goal line. Add to the fact Gerhart got nothing going for me and Bortles couldn't hit the broad side of a barn passing the ball, I was just never in the game. Only downfall was Brady took too many sacks. I recall at least 4 of them. I got thumped but, so was ultimately inconsequential to the outcome of the game.

Last edited by TheWood56; 11-26-2014 at 01:05 AM.
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Old 11-26-2014, 01:02 AM   #220
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Icon11 Re: the Good, the Bad and the Ugly; theSliderWhizperer’s M15 - GAME CHANGER SLIDERS

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Originally Posted by treq21
So far all I have seen is a lot of gobbledygook and no substance.


Sheeeeeesh.... I could only imagine what the comments would be if my career kept me busier than it already does now, it would make the frustration in Ferguson seem like a Macy's Day parade... Mama alway's said, haters gonna hate.....


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Old 11-26-2014, 03:38 AM   #221
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Icon6 Re: the Good, the Bad and the Ugly; theSliderWhizperer’s M15 - GAME CHANGER SLIDERS

Let's Roll....


PART II - Grub for Peeps; Meat & Potatoes 101


Ok, so we are finally here... Before the Wiz mods are dropped, I wanted to "clear all decks" so to speak, before we take this BuuuhEaSt - Virginia Class - war machine through it's paces and see what we got....

"Pilot, ahead standard, right full rudder."

"Ai, ai, Captain!"


Things that will not be addressed here:

1) How different peep's skill sets, impact slider mod effectiveness

2) How KNOWN cheese play can render ANY slider mod work useless...

3) The importance of playing COMPLETE games to get a sense of how the mods play out against different levels of talent

4) Those peeps that refuse to understand how M15 ticks, and believe that tweak here, a tuck there, and the game will play like what we see on TV

5) The game has inherent PROGRAMMING and PLAYER TRAIT (curse you Donnie!!!!) flaws that NO SLIDER MOD, let me repeat that, NO SLIDER MODS can address or FIX!

6) Why M15, in general will not deliver on-point, realistic, statistical outcomes game to game.

7) Go into excruciating detail of how each slider mod impacts game play, house recipes stay house recipes, 'enuff said.


Definitions:

1) CPU QB SACK GLITCH: For those that have followed the thread from it's inception, y'all know that one of my peeps works for the games publisher. Every now and then we communicate like it used to be done years ago, we actually talk over the phone. Mostly about how I own him in fantasy football and baseball, but those tales are for another day.... Anyhow's, he DOES NOT work in the product development with the programmers, so talking about game play issues and slider mods is liking discussing rebuilding a carburetor with a runway model in Paris, immediately there will be silence in the room, sans the lone cricket sound in every person's head in the room wonderin', WTF? Soooo, this year when we were recently talkin' about why I had not sent him my slider mods like I typically do every year, I told him of the frustrations I was having with the CPU QB sack glitch and Robo QB issues (I figured hitting him with all of my frustrations would make me sound like a real homer, since I am not in the publisher's target market), he responded by telling me how ironic that I was having those gripes, since the publisher is pushing as one of this year's improvements, the fact that the CPU/HUM QB will now throw errant passes when pressured.... Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzing and just like that it hit me! I knew what the solution was and what was likely causing the sack glitch AND the ROBO QB issue. I realized that they were ONE-IN-THE-SAME, tied at the hip, kissing-cousins (male-female I presume, but it depend's in what state you live in now-a-days), the rhyme and reason.

Sooo, I diligently began to test my theory, quietly, without any fanfare, alone in my man cave, my trusty dog by my side chewing on the bone from my Cowboy Rib-Eye steak, along with my trusted "Uncle", Sam Adams....

And lo' and behold, it happened! I started seeing CPU QB completion percentages plummet, like Justin Bieber's fame... I was having halves where the QB would go 6 for 15 and so on... Coool, I thought, but the sack glitch was still there as I had surmised. There he was, the Sitting-Duck CPU QB, doing his best imitation of Lady Liberty, and taking 10+ sacks a game. Not fresh. Not realistic. NOT PLAYABLE!

Soooo, pressure is good, but CPU QB holding the ball too long is bad... Hmmm, what to do? This is where my skill with the PEN SLIDERS paid off in SPADES.... Through numerous hours of tweaking, often EIGHT sliders at a time, I started finding combinations of mods that would TAME the CPU QB sack glitch, more importantly, I was able to get the CPU QB to AT LEAST C-A-R-E, to try to avoid the sack, by moving around the pocket. Plugging in Armor and Swords QB modded roster was an eye opener because the CPU QB acted a lot more aware/paranoid to avoid the sack, without so much modding on my end needed to make the CPU QB smarter. The problem is that by the 7th year of your CFM 'chise, there are plenty of drafted QB's that you cannot mod, that Armor&Swords QB mods begin to become insignificant, which is also the problem eventually with SECElit3's re-rated roster work as well...

Soooo, pressure was working magic on the Robo CPU QB issue, but sack glitch was still hangin' around like a shorty who doesn't see the neon sign in the corner that is on and blinking: BEAT IT - with an outline of a thumb turning off and on as it motions towards the front door. So I started to track to see IF THERE was a pattern in the CPU QB sacks... Guess what, there was.... Apparently, at least in the Wiz'es lab work, the sacks came in bunches... So I went to the internet to see WHAT OTHER features the publisher was pimping for M15 and lo' and behold, there it was, staring us in the face the WHOLE TIME... M15 also has a "confidence/get cold-get hot" feature.... So guess what I figured was connected? Yup, CPU QB sacks coming in waves and the "confidence/get cold-get hot" feature...Meaning that the CPU QB sack glitch is an INHERENT part of M15's DNA! It can be tamed, but sacks, especially sacks strung together are here to stay.

Sooo, once I realized this, I went back to try to identify what combo of slider mods could I dial in that tames the sack glitch, makes the CPU QB smarter without modding the rosters, while at the same time dialing up the pass rush pressure, avoid suction pass blocking, tame/eliminate the "dink and dunk" CPU QB game play, dial in better awareness from the O-Line and RB to pick up extra blitzers, dial in more medium and deep pass plays, making cheddar to pay for my toys, and still having time to service the ol' lady.... I've been busy boys, I've been busy...

So here is WHAT IS NOT a CPU QB sack glitch:

1) If you rush more than 4 players, and sack the QB. Look up the percentages on Google. When defenses rush 5 or more players, sack numbers DO GO UP! So if it happens in the real game, why would you expect that it would NOT happen in M15? Solution? Rushing more than 4 players is a CHEESE play in this years Madden. Avoid doing it as a habit, don't abuse it, don't cheese it. However, do be aware that after you get by one of those "sack waves", the Wiz's mods actually make the O-Line, and blocking back, pick up the blitz pretty good and force the CPU QB into a quicker and very inaccurate throws. Bottom line is we have to live with the "sack waves". It blows, I know, live with it. Go back and read my explanation above if you are still having a meltdown about this.

2) If your coverage is on point like gravy on mashed potatoes, and your D-Line begins to collapse the pocket, and one of your line men breaks through, this is what is called a coverage sack, live with it. Yes I know, it happens more often in M15 than it does on Monday's, Thursday's and Sunday's. Go back and read my explanation above if you are still having a meltdown about this.

3) I have tuned the mods so that occasionally on zone coverage pass defense, the MLB (especially if he is high awareness and high play recognition) will leave his zone and smash the CPU QB. Live with it. Yes I know, it happens more often in M15 than it does on Monday's, Thursday's and Sunday's. Go back and read my explanation above if you are still having a meltdown about this.

The slider mods have been dialed in to MAXIMIZE the CPU QB awareness so if the CPU QB still acts like Obama on foreign affairs (clueless...), live with it, there ISN'T more than you can do other than tweak all of the QB traits such as Armor & Swords/SECElit3 did.

Be aware that once you sack the CPU QB once, his "confidence" takes a hit and he becomes HYPER susceptible to lack of awareness and additional sacks. This is why the next topic is important, how to create pressure with ONLY 3 to 4 lineman rushing.


The importance of bringing your pass rush as a D-Lineman:

Properly rushing the CPU QB and breaking down the pocket is the key to success to rid yourself on ROBO CPU QB. For those of you that play COACH MODE, not sure if you can control one of the DE's (I don't play Coach Mode), but if you can, you must do it to address ROBO CPU QB.

I didn't get around to test whether this would work with a LB or DB, but certainly DOES WORK great with controlling a DE.

How YOU can slay ROBO QB for M15:

1) Pick the DE that is MOST BEAST.

2) Time the snap properly.

3) Start pushing the O-lineman into/towards the CPU QB, in other words, collapse the pocket (with the way I dialed in the mods, you WILL BE able to push the O-Lineman around if your DE is a stud). Depending on the route chosen by the AI, the CPU QB senses the impending sack and will "rush" his throw. This "rushed" throw can/does produce errant passes, though not ALL THE TIME.

Caution: This technique WILL NOT work on any mod setting. I know this because some mod settings DO NOT trigger this "nervousness" into the CPU QB. In fact, a lot of the slider mods pimped by OS'er's, make it quite difficult, if not impossible, to shove/toss around/jostle with the offensive lineman. This is a MUST if the CPU QB is going to get "nervous".

Again remember, YOU ARE going to get some "cheap" CPU QB glitch sacks, and YES they will probably come in bunches. Live with it, it is part of M15.

I have given a lot of lip toward BALANCE, and slider inter-dependency. The Wiz's slider mods have been built from the ground up, a complete custom approach, that is not at all a copy and paste job from other theories and simply taped together.

Each slider mod setting is there for a PURPOSE. I can PROMISE YOU, that if you take the mods and try to "tweak" them to your taste, you will lose some, if not all, of the game play magic that I am seeing more often than not on my flatty. Some sliders are extremely sensitive, such as the ratio of the DPI/OPI pen sliders in relation to QB ACC, WR CTCH, PBLK, PCOV, PREAC, RTK, PCI, RTP, HLD and the IG sliders.

Addressing the "dink and dunk" was a bEaSt of a problem, that involved no less than 5 slider combos being futzed with in unison, so puuuuuuuuuhleaze appreciate SLIDER INTER-DEPENDENCY and how it affects game play.


Honestly, this is the most unstable Madden I have yet to create slider mods for, and if this is what the future has in store for us, I am tapping out right here, right now, from hosting a slider mod thread moving forward.

I had to sacrifice some areas to get the game play where it is at. IMHO, the sacrifices are worth the game play. Sacrifices include:

1) Fumbles for the CPU? What are those?
2) Limited fumbles for the HUM? If you control Lamar Miller, he'll be loving ya!
3) Low number of penalties called relative to the real game. Oh well, pen sliders too important to the game play.
4) Field goals are NO GIMMIE for HUM kickers, creates for real drama and demands a sense of timing and skill from YOU, just like it requires from the long snapper, place holder and kicker in the real game!
5) More sacks for the HUM franchise D, read my "gobbledygook" above.
6) Dialing down the "mirror effect" of the CPU/HUM DB's which lead to some inflated HUM QB completion percentages.
7) May not get "spot on" total number of plays per game, much less NFL realistic averages, don't shoot the messenger, I don't influence or control the programming of Madden.

There may be a few other sacrifices, but these are the one's that come to mind at this moment.


Status of the Mods:

New patch did cause some re-tweaks, slowing me down all day today. Upside is that I have game play almost where I want it again.

Soooooo the BETA game play mods (passing and running) are ALMOST done. The kicking game mods are done. Have not even ventured into futzing with the injury/fatigue/auto-subs. Will try to mess with them tonight, and possibly tomorrow.

Was hoping for pre-Gobble:Gobble slider mods but that MAY NOT happen. Certainly by Saturday, and possibly even Friday late evening. I'm tryin', I'm tryin'....

And for all of you that laid the money-line bet that the Wiz was yanking your chain, and was never going to show his cards.... pAy dA hOuSe playa, cuz dem bad boyz are about to debut!

Stay tuned for part III, simply titled: pLayA....Puuuuuuuhlease dOn'T MeSs wId da jHerI CuRl...


Lates.




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Old 11-26-2014, 12:07 PM   #222
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Re: the Good, the Bad and the Ugly; theSliderWhizperer’s M15 - GAME CHANGER SLIDERS

Your sliders on the front page are great as is. But I'm licking my chops if these are better. The all pro ones I see great animations, blown coverages, poor passes if under pressure and the random just bad throw.
Only "issue" is that I get ate up by bad qbs (dink and dunk) with 75% all the time. But the top qbs I can keep around 60-65%. I believe that is because the patch a while back that made the lower end qbs play "worst", and by worst I mean no down field shots so higher percentage passes.
cant wait for these new ones. Thanks for the work.
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Old 11-26-2014, 12:29 PM   #223
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Icon12 Re: the Good, the Bad and the Ugly; theSliderWhizperer’s M15 - GAME CHANGER SLIDERS

Quote:
Originally Posted by JGRIPP81
Your sliders on the front page are great as is. But I'm licking my chops if these are better. The all pro ones I see great animations, blown coverages, poor passes if under pressure and the random just bad throw.
Only "issue" is that I get ate up by bad qbs (dink and dunk) with 75% all the time. But the top qbs I can keep around 60-65%. I believe that is because the patch a while back that made the lower end qbs play "worst", and by worst I mean no down field shots so higher percentage passes.
cant wait for these new ones. Thanks for the work.

'ppreciate the love pimp... Yeah, the All-Pro's were OK, and I may go back to tighten them up, now that I know a few more things, or two, about what makes M15 tick.

On the All-JohnM slider mods, animations stay, possibly improve, the dink and dunk is tamed and there is an improvement by most CPU QB's to look down field and you CAN get burned by bombs raining down over your safeties domes.

Unfortunately, the new patch, really futzed with the "aggressiveness/awareness" of the DB's, especially the CPU DB's, because HUM passing became SOOOOOO much easier and there seems to be LESS blitzing by the CPU, and without that sense of "nervousness" caused by the pocket breaking down due to a CPU blitz on the HUM QB, throwing to your receivers becomes "robotic/automatic", creating high HUM QB completion percentages. I can make the DB's play tighter, but it DESTROYS the CPU/HUM running game in the process.

Madden sometimes raises my frustration to the point where I feel like just "burning down the house" (figure of speech, don't interpret this in the LITERAL sense, I like my spread A LOT!) and waiting patiently for Spring, to pick up the Show and swearing that I will never buy another title from EA sports again, that is, until Madden comes out the following fall.... D'oooooooh!





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Old 11-26-2014, 12:34 PM   #224
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the Good, the Bad and the Ugly; theSliderWhizperer’s M15 - GAME CHANGER SLIDERS

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Originally Posted by theSliderWhisperer
'ppreciate the love pimp... Yeah, the All-Pro's were OK, and I may go back to tighten them up, now that I know a few more things, or two, about what makes M15 tick.

On the All-JohnM slider mods, animations stay, possibly improve, the dink and dunk is tamed and there is an improvement by most CPU QB's to look down field and you CAN get burned by bombs raining down over your safeties domes.

Unfortunately, the new patch, really futzed with the "aggressiveness/awareness" of the DB's, especially the CPU DB's, because HUM passing became SOOOOOO much easier and there seems to be LESS blitzing by the CPU, and without that sense of "nervousness" caused by the pocket breaking down due to a CPU blitz on the HUM QB, throwing to your receivers becomes "robotic/automatic", creating high HUM QB completion percentages. I can make the DB's play tighter, but it DESTROYS the CPU/HUM running game in the process.

Madden sometimes raises my frustration to the point where I feel like just "burning down the house" (figure of speech, don't interpret this in the LITERAL sense, I like my spread A LOT!) and waiting patiently for Spring, to pick up the Show and swearing that I will never buy another title from EA sports again, that is, until Madden comes out the following fall.... D'oooooooh!





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My primary issue with the patch... Why the hell did they dumb down the aggressiveness of the DBs so much? I swear...Tiburon is garbage. We've got guys in there that don't know their head from a hole in the ground, in regards to football, and have no business being on the development team. It's the same thing every year... That, coupled with work ethic issues, exclusivity, and a company that is run by a marketing department is killing the football genre.


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