Is Ultimate Team Ruining Madden (And other Sports Titles)

[ForUntoOblivionSoar∞]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

I'm literally going to (mostly) copy-paste a post I wrote elsewhere because it's more relevant here. If you are going to write criticism as to how a video game company runs their business, you first need to understand how a video game company actually runs their business. To directly respond to the topic question: speaking as someone who entirely ignores the mode every year, Ultimate Team hasn't affected my experience enjoying Madden literally at all. The game is hardly "ruined" by its presence.

The post you quoted of yourself undermines your argument.

Consider the reality in which MUT doesn't exist it's. Where would the majority of resources and time outside of gameplay be spent (over the last decade, not th last two years when the frostbite plan was implemented)? Where would th micro-transactions be? And this one is big. If MUT didn't exist the micro test and actions would be by necessity more catered to franchise players, which would require an evolving franchise experience.

Where would those micro transactions be? THATS right. Franchise.


Note: to clarify, that is a GOOD thing. Micro transactions for franchise would again by necessity require an evolving franchise mode.

[ForUntoOblivionSoar∞]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

There's a third option in there that they actually are making franchise mode better but the additions haven't been what you wanted to see. Many of the major additions and changes over the past few years - Things To Do, Play The Moments, rebuilt Scouting, Weekly Training, Play Now Live, etc. etc. - each focus more on newer Madden players than experienced ones. These features absolutely were built where they did not exist before, and they each made Franchise a better experience. It can also be true that these things aren't what a community like this one wants to see in the game. My point is that Tiburon neither making up numbers nor are they lying to you just to make you quiet down. This is an uninformed and agenda-driven assumption. From an engineering perspective, MUT has little to zero day-to-day impact on Franchise. Compared to Franchise, MUT requires very little engineering support (especially post-launch) as it was built as a content-driven mode from the get-go. A great deal of the work on MUT is in daily and weekly content drops; that is, designers (not engineers) regularly building and delivering new cards to collect, new sets to complete, new packs to buy, new daily and weekly challenges to play, new promotional events in which to participate, etc. etc. Unlike new features in Franchise, these content refreshes don't require building new screens, adding to or extending databases, building new network requests and callbacks, or any other significant engineering tasks. It's just data packaged together with various internal tools delivered into a game client and server which already knows how to handle that data. By comparison, if you want to get some cool new feature into online Franchise, you've got to go through all the traditional engineering rigamarole. It's a much bigger and a much different type of effort than that which is needed to drive MUT.

Were it not for MUT those designers would be:

-fixing uniforms
-fixing player faces
-adding new plays (assuming there is a tool designed for that, and can't imagine why there wouldn't be)
-making more tuning adjustments
-fixing low priority tuning adjustments (hello punts, pancakes and possibly qb tendencies)
-getting online tools running in weeks instead of an entire Madden cycle


Etc .

[SyncereBlackout]

Quote: Originally Posted by ForUntoOblivionSoar∞

Were it not for MUT those designers would be: -fixing uniforms -fixing player faces -adding new plays (assuming there is a tool designed for that, and can't imagine why there wouldn't be) -making more tuning adjustments -fixing low priority tuning adjustments (hello punts, pancakes and possibly qb tendencies) -getting online tools running in weeks instead of an entire Madden cycle Etc .

Fixed that for ya

-creating uniforms to purchase

-fixing player faces - to upgrade from the generic face through a micro transaction

-adding new plays (assuming there is a tool designed for that, and can't imagine why there wouldn't be) - which we could purchase a la carte

-getting online tools at some point based on how frequently and how much we spend in micro transactions





Etc



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[DaGreatOne21]

The real answer, IMO anyway, is yes AND no.

I say NO because its not the mode ITSELF thats ruining Madden.

I say YES because I believe its EA's greed that is ruining, not just Madden, but EA in general, and on a broader scale, the videogame industry as a whole. MUT is the biggest way they feed that need through Madden, and that means ignoring other things within the game.

Beyond greed, and thus beyond MUT, the other things ruining Madden IMO are 1) lack of love for the game of football and 2) lack of vision as a videogame publisher.

First off, I dont believe pretty much anyone who has any control of the creative direction of Madden likes or cares about football. They are one of the biggest videogame companies in the world, so the resources are there to make a great football game. I just dont think they care too. If someone in charge truly loved everything about the NFL, we would get better than what we get on an annual basis. Instead, what you have is a bunch of greedy people who make the game just enough about football to cater to CASUAL fans. Lets face it, this game hasnt cared about hardcore football fans and sim gamers in at least a decade, and probably longer. Some will say that group is in the minority, and maybe it is, but I know for a fact its still a big chunk of the potential player base that EA just ignores.

Secondly, I mean, have you seen comments from some of EAs top guys? They are completely out of touch with what gamers want. Their games only sell well because they have acquired huge name exclusive licenses that they sell on name alone. Harry Potter, Star Wars, NFL....and between those three, theyve put out like what, 25-30 games over the last 10-12 years? And of those 25-30 games, how many are considered better than average games? And thats my point....EA rides the namesakes of franchises to big sales....not because their games are great or even good.

And again, Im not trying to bash EA, but lets be realistic here. Even if you enjoy Madden and MUT, no one can argue that EA has put anything close to their best effort into it, or any of their games really. They can cite short development cycles all they want, but if thats their excuse every year, they have no logical business charging full price every year....the same that you pay for games like The Last of Us, Elder Scrolls and Grand Theft Auto that spend 3-5+ years in development. How can that be justified? Well, it cant be....but EA does it because too many people will sink money into this marginally improved game year after year.

[mykelmosinee]

Quote: Originally Posted by DaGreatOne21

The real answer, IMO anyway, is yes AND no. I say NO because its not the mode ITSELF thats ruining Madden. I say YES because I believe its EA's greed that is ruining, not just Madden, but EA in general, and on a broader scale, the videogame industry as a whole. MUT is the biggest way they feed that need through Madden, and that means ignoring other things within the game. Beyond greed, and thus beyond MUT, the other things ruining Madden IMO are 1) lack of love for the game of football and 2) lack of vision as a videogame publisher. First off, I dont believe pretty much anyone who has any control of the creative direction of Madden likes or cares about football. They are one of the biggest videogame companies in the world, so the resources are there to make a great football game. I just dont think they care too. If someone in charge truly loved everything about the NFL, we would get better than what we get on an annual basis. Instead, what you have is a bunch of greedy people who make the game just enough about football to cater to CASUAL fans. Lets face it, this game hasnt cared about hardcore football fans and sim gamers in at least a decade, and probably longer. Some will say that group is in the minority, and maybe it is, but I know for a fact its still a big chunk of the potential player base that EA just ignores. Secondly, I mean, have you seen comments from some of EAs top guys? They are completely out of touch with what gamers want. Their games only sell well because they have acquired huge name exclusive licenses that they sell on name alone. Harry Potter, Star Wars, NFL....and between those three, theyve put out like what, 25-30 games over the last 10-12 years? And of those 25-30 games, how many are considered better than average games? And thats my point....EA rides the namesakes of franchises to big sales....not because their games are great or even good. And again, Im not trying to bash EA, but lets be realistic here. Even if you enjoy Madden and MUT, no one can argue that EA has put anything close to their best effort into it, or any of their games really. They can cite short development cycles all they want, but if thats their excuse every year, they have no logical business charging full price every year....the same that you pay for games like The Last of Us, Elder Scrolls and Grand Theft Auto that spend 3-5+ years in development. How can that be justified? Well, it cant be....but EA does it because too many people will sink money into this marginally improved game year after year.

Get ready to be insulted by the EA apologists...1 I know will surely come to their defense.
I agree with you on every point.
EA has hired more and more low level, inexperienced developers over the years, saving money in the process.
They've burned through several development teams, because they don't allow their people to be creative...everything is marketing and baby steps in innovation.
I knew when the exclusive deal was made with the NFL that this would be the result. There is absolutely NOTHING driving them to drastically improve, innovate, or take chances. So it's cookie cutter garbage year after year, as they gobble up more and more of the competition.
It's a sad state of affairs for the consumers.

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[roadman]

You make some good points, especially in the early part of your post.

You bring up paying full price for a short cycled game and that is brought up around here quite a few times, but everyone knows that you can purchase Madden for at least 20% off or more at different places. So, not everyone is paying full price for the game at launch and we all know that, but tend to use that to back a point.

I paid 11 bucks at launch with mine last year.

And let's not just throw EA into the whole greed picture, we need to include 2k into the mix as well with their card purchases and the way they started off with nba2k this year.

One of the creative leaders at Madden is Cam Weber, a former CFL QB, so, I don't think anyone can say there isn't anyone with football experience at the top and no love for football at the top.

Insulted-lol, I should have guessed it with the on schedule apologist posting, again.

[DaGreatOne21]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

You make some good points, especially in the early part of your post. You bring up paying full price for a short cycled game and that is brought up around here quite a few times, but everyone knows that you can purchase Madden for at least 20% off or more at different places. So, not everyone is paying full price for the game at launch and we all know that, but tend to use that to back a point. I paid 11 bucks at launch with mine last year.

The full retail price is $59.99. Thats what Im speaking of. I am well aware of trade ins and discounts here and there...but that doesnt change the fact that the game is $60 every year and even more if you get a special edition, and thats the price alot of people pay.

Quote:

And let's not just throw EA into the whole greed picture, we need to include 2k into the mix as well with their card purchases and the way they started off with nba2k this year.

Well, my comment was...

"I believe its EA's greed that is ruining, not just Madden, but EA in general, and on a broader scale, the videogame industry as a whole."

So obviously, I agree. However, EA is the most glaring example of greed destroying the industry. Obviously financial profit is the end game of all these companies, but I dont view them or any other company as greedy for trying to improve financial gain, I view them as greedy for the practices they use to improve their financial gain, and none of those practices include making great games.

Quote:

One of the creative leaders at Madden is Cam Weber, a former CFL QB, so, I don't think anyone can say there isn't anyone with football experience at the top and no love for football at the top.

While thats a relevant point, it doesnt really convince me of anything TBH.

Quote:

Insulted-lol, I should have guessed it with the on schedule apologist posting, again.

Huh?

I dont consider you an apologist at all. Ive read many of your posts over the years and you are very level headed and objective about the game. I am just not as forgiving as alot of the shortcoming as you seem to be. Thats not a knock on you at all, either....I wish I could enjoy the game more than I do.

[timhere1970]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

You make some good points, especially in the early part of your post. You bring up paying full price for a short cycled game and that is brought up around here quite a few times, but everyone knows that you can purchase Madden for at least 20% off or more at different places. So, not everyone is paying full price for the game at launch and we all know that, but tend to use that to back a point. I paid 11 bucks at launch with mine last year. And let's not just throw EA into the whole greed picture, we need to include 2k into the mix as well with their card purchases and the way they started off with nba2k this year. One of the creative leaders at Madden is Cam Weber, a former CFL QB, so, I don't think anyone can say there isn't anyone with football experience at the top and no love for football at the top. Insulted-lol, I should have guessed it with the on schedule apologist posting, again.

Nothing wrong with greed. Very little of great value is ever accomplished without it. The problem with madden is the lack of market forces to control it. They are motivated by profit without due consideration given to quality just like your cable company. They are not suffciently responsive to customers.

Last year in a 2k forumn a developer asked for ideas for improvements to 2k myleqgue/gm. I posted that a pet peeve of mine is that when i am assigning percentages to train in each attribute i had to back out and scroll down to each rating to find out what the current rating was. It would be nice if i could see the current rating when looking at the screen to assign training percentages. Wasn't a big issue and i think the comment only had one like so not a big deal to the community. That is in the game this year. So, you can imagine the goodwill i have for 2k as a result of their responsiveness. Madden is at the other end of the spectrum. We finally got running qb's but 90 yard punts are not a enough concern to be fixed in their football game. Every basic improvement is like pulling teeth.