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Madden NFL 19: The Full Interview With Producer Ben Haumiller

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Old 06-20-2018, 12:29 PM   #193
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Re: Madden NFL 19: The Full Interview With Producer Ben Haumiller

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Originally Posted by vannwolfhawk
Is everyone who is defending EA and tiburon really happy with how little was added this year? I’ll tell you if 2k released this little info I can assure you the 2k community would be up in arms. But we are at a point where we expect mass info in all areas of the game from them because they set a high bar! Are you guys just complacent and used to it with madden so you accept the small changes and are ok with it?

The argument or debate started with people saying 11 v 11 is not comparable and it’s “too hard” for madden to add this or that, and triple A games are just too tough to develop. Hence the well others are doing it or others have done it argument which is fact. Ncaa football 08 was great imo. I loved that game. It’s been 10 years so my memory of everything that was in it is foggy, but I do remember loving it and I do remember liking how the CPU AI played in that game for it’s time. So, it’s been done before. That NCAA team went above and beyond and Ben was at the head correct?

Like Sage, others, and I have said it seems lazy. You can deflect all you want... I have no idea why Rex left, but I can’t help but feel like it was partly out of frustration of trying to fight the good fight. Compared to last year and the huge list of legacy issues they knocked out this year isnt even comparable... What legacy issues were fixed this year anyways? Wind meter? Challenge system? Pocket presence? I could go on and on and on... Shoot, last year they even took resources away from the game, spent 2-3 years on longshot (I never even tried it out of principle), and took a guy over to NBA Live all year. Taking huge resources away from 1 of its best selling games. That’s crazy no? I will say IMO it is a good thing though that EA is doing a Beta for 2 weeks! I can’t ever remember them doing that before? Hopefully this impacts and helps the final product we see on release (I’m sure it will). That’s a positive step imo. I do think EA is scared to tinker too much though and screw everything up. I get the analogy used earlier of steering the aircraft carrier. But 2k just isn’t scared to try new things and continue to be innovative.

If people read the article I posted earlier in this thread in how EA is constantly rated 1 of the worst companies to work for, got sued by employees for not paying overtime, getting exclusive licensing then immediately putting out games with less and less features, etc it’s no wonder we are where we are. The only argument I would buy from anyone is the suits are holding the devs back. If that’s not the issue then it’s just flat out a lack of vision, lack of ability to make it happen, or a lack of leadership? What else can it possibly be? I don’t buy it’s too hard... sorry...
Problem is, it is mostly all opinion and speculation. EA's Battlefield series is one of the best in the first person shooter genre, IMO. The series creates many innovated gameplay additions; granted they have a longer cycle. But then DICE may have certain qualities that Tiburon does not have. EA is the publisher. I would assume DICE doesn't have the NFL or similar controlling entity hovering over every move they make.

I don't have any facts on hand, but EA, like the Patriots, being big and successful, seems to lend to more people targetting them with any numer of reasons behind lawsuits. We have a tendency, as people and IMO, to attack the lead horse.
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Old 06-20-2018, 12:37 PM   #194
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Re: Madden NFL 19: The Full Interview With Producer Ben Haumiller

Quote:
Originally Posted by vannwolfhawk
Is everyone who is defending EA and tiburon really happy with how little was added this year? I’ll tell you if 2k released this little info I can assure you the 2k community would be up in arms. But we are at a point where we expect mass info in all areas of the game from them because they set a high bar! Are you guys just complacent and used to it with madden so you accept the small changes and are ok with it?

The argument or debate started with people saying 11 v 11 is not comparable and it’s “too hard” for madden to add this or that, and triple A games are just too tough to develop. Hence the well others are doing it or others have done it argument which is fact. Ncaa football 08 was great imo. I loved that game. It’s been 10 years so my memory of everything that was in it is foggy, but I do remember loving it and I do remember liking how the CPU AI played in that game for it’s time. So, it’s been done before. That NCAA team went above and beyond and Ben was at the head correct?

Like Sage, others, and I have said it seems lazy. You can deflect all you want... I have no idea why Rex left, but I can’t help but feel like it was partly out of frustration of trying to fight the good fight. Compared to last year and the huge list of legacy issues they knocked out this year isnt even comparable... What legacy issues were fixed this year anyways? Wind meter? Challenge system? Pocket presence? I could go on and on and on... Shoot, last year they even took resources away from the game, spent 2-3 years on longshot (I never even tried it out of principle), and took a guy over to NBA Live all year. Taking huge resources away from 1 of its best selling games. That’s crazy no? I will say IMO it is a good thing though that EA is doing a Beta for 2 weeks! I can’t ever remember them doing that before? Hopefully this impacts and helps the final product we see on release (I’m sure it will). That’s a positive step imo. I do think EA is scared to tinker too much though and screw everything up. I get the analogy used earlier of steering the aircraft carrier. But 2k just isn’t scared to try new things and continue to be innovative.

If people read the article I posted earlier in this thread in how EA is constantly rated 1 of the worst companies to work for, got sued by employees for not paying overtime, getting exclusive licensing then immediately putting out games with less and less features, etc it’s no wonder we are where we are. The only argument I would buy from anyone is the suits are holding the devs back. If that’s not the issue then it’s just flat out a lack of vision, lack of ability to make it happen, or a lack of leadership? What else can it possibly be? I don’t buy it’s too hard... sorry...
So on point, their are no words for it. Not drinking the kool aid doesn't mean we "hate madden". We are holding one of the biggest publishers, of one of the biggest selling games, representing the biggest sport in America to higher standards. As we should.

I have been in b2b sales for the last 15 years. If I constantly sold my customers packages that hey were not satisfied with and then spent half of my time explaining why it couldn't be done or why i couldn't give them a product as equal in quality as another companies product , I would be out of the job.

Not excepting empty excuses is not "hating madden".

Last edited by Therebelyell626; 06-20-2018 at 12:40 PM.
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Old 06-20-2018, 12:37 PM   #195
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Re: Madden NFL 19: The Full Interview With Producer Ben Haumiller

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4thQtrStre5S
Problem is, it is mostly all opinion and speculation. EA's Battlefield series is one of the best in the first person shooter genre, IMO. The series creates many innovated gameplay additions; granted they have a longer cycle. But then DICE may have certain qualities that Tiburon does not have. EA is the publisher. I would assume DICE doesn't have the NFL or similar controlling entity hovering over every move they make.
While i get what your saying here. Id also point out NBA Live 18( imo ) was a well done basketball game. Yes it has some issues, but i was impressed with not only the gameplay , but all the things they added to it . I really enjoy that game alot. Same with battlefield series. Ill play that over COD any day of the week. But , in no way , do i see the NFL standing over EA , saying , no dont make realistic football ( outside of concussions, players beating their women , etc) . I dont see them telling EA, dont make this awesome .

The real difference is - Battlefield and NBA Live both have something Madden does not , and that is competition. They have no choice but to really improve and be innovative, or be beat out by competition. Live is trying to catch up to 2K. Personally i like both of those games. But lets be honest, the difference is competition and EA knows they have the NFL market cornered.
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Old 06-20-2018, 12:43 PM   #196
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Re: Madden NFL 19: The Full Interview With Producer Ben Haumiller

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4thQtrStre5S
Problem is, it is mostly all opinion and speculation. EA's Battlefield series is one of the best in the first person shooter genre, IMO. The series creates many innovated gameplay additions; granted they have a longer cycle. But then DICE may have certain qualities that Tiburon does not have. EA is the publisher. I would assume DICE doesn't have the NFL or similar controlling entity hovering over every move they make.

I don't have any facts on hand, but EA, like the Patriots, being big and successful, seems to lend to more people targetting them with any numer of reasons behind lawsuits. We have a tendency, as people and IMO, to attack the lead horse.
I actually saw a lot more fact in that article than speculation. Speculation is an assumption without facts.

You mean to tell me the whole loot box controversy with Star Wars didn't happen? You mean to tell me that EA employees weren't awarded damages due to mistreatment? You mean to tell me the NFL license wasn't done to squash a real and growing threat? You mean to tell me that EA hasn't been purchasing quality studios and then shuttering them at an alarming rate?

Not being rude. But I think the mans article was more fact then speculation. The Jerry colangelo twitter article is more speculation than this.
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Old 06-20-2018, 12:46 PM   #197
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Re: Madden NFL 19: The Full Interview With Producer Ben Haumiller

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Originally Posted by roadman
Vann;

I appreciate your passion to help try to change Madden, many others in the past decade have had the same passion as you have. A lot of people have had your same energy and here we are. The revels start coming in around June, once the game is out, some stay a few weeks after release or more and then leave until June comes around again.

For me, it's not about being complacent at all. It's all about historical references and history, most of the times, history is a good predictor of the future.

Once EA Tibs proves me wrong, I will admit to it, but I fail to see EA Tib changing their processes.
History tells us complacency has always been a issue I get it. Every year I post a thread with my gripes/wishlists, etc. I might not frequent these forums all year long, but Iím always here June- November or December. I state my issues, read the forums, grab some things to make the game better, and try and fix things myself and for the community (gameplanning) so they can have a better experience. Shoot, I spend more time fixing things so I can enjoy playing vs the CPU in playbooks, roster ratings, etc then I do playing it half the time. Lol! But that doesnít mean we give up and that change isnít possible. Look at CPU gameplanning that EA finally addressed this year for the 1st time since gameplanning was put in. Why was that? It finally created a buzz with myself, sabo, and kinggro I believe with 3 Playbook threads on how bad it was. It opened the eyes of many who didnít even know it was a simple fix and the huge difference it had for CPU AI and gameplay. Thatís a positive.

2k has pretty much always been innovative, but they have really upped their game in the last 5-6 years imo. It wasnít always as overwhelming as it has been in recent years. But they have no turnover, great leadership and vision, hire great passionate and knowledgeable guys from our community like OG, Czar, beds, and leftos to add to the depth of the game in their areas of expertise as they knew they could improve in those areas with them. They also allow freedom to be innovative and create an atmosphere of creativity. So, itís not impossible for it to happen and EA just needs to look at it through a different set of glasses is all. Try something different. Bring the ďif itís in the game itís in the gameĒ back. I think the more sim and real life 2k got the better it got and more well received it got. I believe the same to be true for madden if they chose that route. The game and all modes would or could benefit...

I get it though you are content with it and realize it is what it is. I am as well to an extent, but I wonít give up and just stay quiet and think change isnít possible either...
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Old 06-20-2018, 12:52 PM   #198
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Re: Madden NFL 19: The Full Interview With Producer Ben Haumiller

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4thQtrStre5S
Problem is, it is mostly all opinion and speculation. EA's Battlefield series is one of the best in the first person shooter genre, IMO. The series creates many innovated gameplay additions; granted they have a longer cycle. But then DICE may have certain qualities that Tiburon does not have. EA is the publisher. I would assume DICE doesn't have the NFL or similar controlling entity hovering over every move they make.

I don't have any facts on hand, but EA, like the Patriots, being big and successful, seems to lend to more people targetting them with any numer of reasons behind lawsuits. We have a tendency, as people and IMO, to attack the lead horse.
I don't agree that it is an "EA" problem as much as it is a Tiburon problem. Never in my life have I seen more excuses and free passes made for a dev studio. Fifa is also an EA game, and it is an impressive creation. I look at NBA Live and Madden, both of which are Tiburon games, and they are both severely lacking. There will always be people who complain just to complain and I will never understand that. Honestly, if I was as passionate a basketball fan as I am a football fan, I'd never be on a forum complaining about NBA 2k. I also wouldn't feel the need to comment about NBA Live since I already have a complete, fantastic experience from NBA 2k. Most people don't care who makes the game, they just want it to be great. How does it benefit anyone just to hate or defend a particular company? I'll never understand that sentiment. If Madden was on the same level as NBA2k, FIFA and the SHow, I'd be lining up at midnight to buy it every year. I'd be taking sick days to play it and I'd be telling a lot of my buddies to pick it up - just like I did many years ago. The fact that it was made by EA doesn't mean anything to me, nor should it. Why would have any angst towards a company that provides me with something that is a phenomenal product?

Undoubtedly, there are some incredibly bright folks who work there. However, collectively, as a team their ideas, design decisions and lackluster implementations show otherwise. Common sense seems to be completely absent at times. Just look at how they approach presentation. They once stated that they wanted to copy real life (i.e Madden 12). Camera shots and angles were excellent! The following year, they reversed that position and went to "beyond broadcast" which no one ever asked for. They want what they see in real life. Then they went and created the 3 separate game modes (albeit far too long to finally do this). They explained how those modes will allow them to cater the game to the different player types. Really? We still can't get realistic football elements in the game because competitive players complain. What was the point of the 3 separate modes then? When they implemented penalties, they did it half *** - not including many of the real penalties in football. Still no offsetting penalties. The challenge system is still from 2 generations ago. They just added some ball physics in Madden 17 (and it's still not done well). Every year the kicking mechanics change, yet it's still automatic. How many years do you have to waste time on that? They are constantly saying how x or y takes time because resources are precious. Yes, they are precious for ALL development studios with far less money than they have.

Some stuff I will put on EA up top like these:

They couldn't add items to franchise because they wanted to spend 4 years working on a story mode (that no one really asked for) along with creating a whole new mode (Draft Champs - which no one really asked for) along with the most desired feature of all - THE GAUNTLET. These are foolish decisions if you are running low on resources. No one bought Madden to play the Gauntlet or because Draft Champs were in the game. It's sheer and utter cluelessness. Making a story mode would have been fine for most madden players if the Franchise mode had already been fully fleshed out. Even their own Creative Director professed his disgust for this. Yet they pulled most of their resources to build the cart before you even have half of the horse. It's exhausting. All the while, we are approaching the second next gen console generation that has been wasted and we don't see a true next gen experience.

But hey, the servers are definitely solid and I can play head to head...
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Old 06-20-2018, 12:54 PM   #199
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Re: Madden NFL 19: The Full Interview With Producer Ben Haumiller

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Originally Posted by howboutdat
While i get what your saying here. Id also point out NBA Live 18( imo ) was a well done basketball game. Yes it has some issues, but i was impressed with not only the gameplay , but all the things they added to it . I really enjoy that game alot. Same with battlefield series. Ill play that over COD any day of the week. But , in no way , do i see the NFL standing over EA , saying , no dont make realistic football ( outside of concussions, players beating their women , etc) . I dont see them telling EA, dont make this awesome .

The real difference is - Battlefield and NBA Live both have something Madden does not , and that is competition. They have no choice but to really improve and be innovative, or be beat out by competition. Live is trying to catch up to 2K. Personally i like both of those games. But lets be honest, the difference is competition and EA knows they have the NFL market cornered.
Competition does help push innovation and risk-taking. Managing Madden is potentially a lot more about maintaining the status quo. They have the numbers that suggest a relatively consistent consumer base. So they can make minor changes to hold their current user base. They add in a Longshot to attract new consumers.

Longshot does provide long-term benefits. The mode, along with Frostbite allow for abilities which can bring the immersion and atmosphere alive. I believe the dynamic scenes in CFM are indicators of more to come. But like many, I am curious why their development seems slower.

As I initially stated, risk and risk aversion can be huge hurdles for a company to overcome. They have an idea of their future with Madden based on past performance. NBA Live has competition, but is a newer endeavor, is it not? The initial push to bring NBA live up to speed is assisted by competition and direct knowledge of what sells or does not sell in a game evenly comparable.

I would add, Madden does have NCAA to look at. I do not recall the sales of NCAA in relation to Madden. I would assume Madden sold more. IMO if Madden sold more than NCAA it was more due to the national popularity of the NFL and its solidarity. I know lots of people love NCAA football, just not sure how many of those fans play video games.

If NCAA has more fans in real life, but the game sold less than Madden, there may be executives who believe that NCAA features are not worth replicating because they may see those NCAA features as not being popular enough to sale. Which could be a huge misjudgment of information.

Anyway, I am rambling. Sorry.
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Old 06-20-2018, 12:58 PM   #200
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Re: Madden NFL 19: The Full Interview With Producer Ben Haumiller

Quote:
Originally Posted by vannwolfhawk
History tells us complacency has always been a issue I get it. Every year I post a thread with my gripes/wishlists, etc. I might not frequent these forums all year long, but I’m always here June- November or December. I state my issues, read the forums, grab some things to make the game better, and try and fix things myself and for the community (gameplanning) so they can have a better experience. Shoot, I spend more time fixing things so I can enjoy playing vs the CPU in playbooks, roster ratings, etc then I do playing it half the time. Lol! But that doesn’t mean we give up and that change isn’t possible. Look at CPU gameplanning that EA finally addressed this year for the 1st time since gameplanning was put in. Why was that? It finally created a buzz with myself, sabo, and kinggro I believe with 3 Playbook threads on how bad it was. It opened the eyes of many who didn’t even know it was a simple fix and the huge difference it had for CPU AI and gameplay. That’s a positive.

2k has pretty much always been innovative, but they have really upped their game in the last 5-6 years imo. It wasn’t always as overwhelming as it has been in recent years. But they have no turnover, great leadership and vision, hire great passionate and knowledgeable guys from our community like OG, Czar, beds, and leftos to add to the depth of the game in their areas of expertise as they knew they could improve in those areas with them. They also allow freedom to be innovative and create an atmosphere of creativity. So, it’s not impossible for it to happen and EA just needs to look at it through a different set of glasses is all. Try something different. Bring the “if it’s in the game it’s in the game” back. I think the more sim and real life 2k got the better it got and more well received it got. I believe the same to be true for madden if they chose that route. The game and all modes would or could benefit...

I get it though you are content with it and realize it is what it is. I am as well to an extent, but I won’t give up and just stay quiet and think change isn’t possible either...
I appreciate everything you do for the community with the playbooks.

A different set of glasses will need to come from within where the suits and marketing are lead.

I appreciate your spirit, and if I want something in the game or I am not happy with sky high punts into the wind, lack of PI calls,etc...., I am vocal about it and I do it via the Developers on Twitter.

So, yes, I do tolerate the game as it is, but that doesn't mean I'm completely satisfied with the game and it can't get better. And with the help of Sabo, you and the slider makers, I get a good game of football out of it.
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