Steve Smith's attitude toward Jake Delhomme

[Rocky]

Quote: Originally Posted by J0nnD0ugh

He may be the best in Panther history, but that's not hard given Carolina's short history. Didn't Testaverde have more career pass attempts than the entire Panther franchise last year? That should not be a consideration when measuring his ability, now, in 2009. He was a subpar QB all year despite the best running game in franchise history & another Pro Bowl season from SS. Fact: jake had a lower passer rating than Seneca Wallace, Shaun Hill & Trent Edwards. (Once more, Misjake has Deangelo, Stewart & SS.)

They have a better passer rating than Ben Roethlisberger, Donovan McNabb, and David Garrard.....so they're obviously better, right?

Quote: Originally Posted by J0nnD0ugh

Fact: 7 of 27 w/4 picks vs the Oakland Raiders. Just 10 of 19 vs winless Detroit, despite Stewart & Williams each going over 100. Fact: Saturday was his 4th game w/a rating under 60. Fact: 21 turnovers in 17 games.

OK, examples of "Bad Jake". I'm not going to excuse those performances. They happened and we still came on top. Funny how you don't mention the Arizona or San Diego games from earlier in the year as he basically won those for us.

Quote: Originally Posted by J0nnD0ugh

Fact: 7-0 when he had fewer than 22 passes. 5-5 over 22. The more the ball is in his hands, the worse Carolina's chances get.

You can say that about any running team.

Quote: Originally Posted by J0nnD0ugh

He is not going to get better as he ages. His last 9 games, he had 7 td's & 12 int's. He never passed for more than 2 td's the entire year. Its time to cut bait if they can. I'm not saying make a knee jerk decision. But w/an absurd schedule coming up next year, they can't afford to regress @ any position, especially @ the most important, quarterback. It is clear the guy can no longer lead a playoff team. You can't put the game on his shoulders & expect to win.

OK.

Fact: Carolina was terrible when he was out last year. Carolina won the division with him back. Maybe they got that much better or maybe it was a coincidence.

Fact: Steve Smith in 2007: 87 rec. 1002 yds. 7 TD's
Steve Smith in 2008: 79 rec. 1421 yds. 6 TD's despite running the ball alot more.

Fact: They're are literally too many instances of clutch performances and great comebacks that few QB's could have engineered to list here and we saw some of those this year.

Bottom line is....the guy makes plays in the passing game. Granted, some of those plays will be bad, but so many of those were good.

Be careful what you wish for is all I'm saying.

[superjames1992]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rocky

Or maybe he knows that his best seasons come when Jake Delhomme is the QB and he wants to keep it that way. LOL @ some Panther fans. Making a rash decision to cut the BEST QB IN FRANCHISE HISTORY because of a couple of games. Granted that "Bad Jake" came at the worst possible of times, but not many teams would cut a QB who has engineered countless game winning drives, comebacks, and clutch plays. I'm a pissed as anybody, but if a QB change is made, it needs to be made carefully.

This is kind of how I feel. I feel it's an overreaction to one game for the most part.

I'm not totally against a quarterback change, but we saw that this team can be much, much worse when the QB is terrible like last year. I don't want them throwing anyone behind center. There isn't a whole lot of talented quarterbacks in the league right now, so we should be glad that we at least have an above average one in Jake Delhomme. We could be stuck with Daunte Cullpepper, Joey Harrington, David Carr (Ugh, last year he SUCKED), ect...

[J0nnD0ugh]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rocky

They have a better passer rating than Ben Roethlisberger, Donovan McNabb, and David Garrard.....so they're obviously better, right?

Why bring that up? What kind of personel did Roth have around him? jake had a better line, healthy RB's all year & a better WR.

McNabb was benched & still had better numbers than jake. Garrard is much younger &, again, has much worse personel around him. You're just making the argument against Misjake stronger.

Quote:

OK, examples of "Bad Jake". I'm not going to excuse those performances. They happened and we still came on top. Funny how you don't mention the Arizona or San Diego games from earlier in the year as he basically won those for us.

Against defenses still finding their way. And like I said, jake is regressing. Those games were the 1st half of the year. What made Saturday so absurd is that these weren't tipped-passes-hit-as-he-threw-WR's-went-the-wrong-way INT's. There were bad passes thrown straight into the teeth of the defense. Double coverage, into the center of the zone, covered like a glove. He didn't look like a rookie QB in the NFL. He looked like a freshman in the NFL. It wasn't a question of skill. It was a question of brain power. Like he didn't have clue what was going on on the field.

Quote:

You can say that about any running team.

Most of the time, yes. But you want a QB who can take over when the running game is stifled. Rivers can do that. Cassel can do that. jake can't. No longer.

Quote:

OK. Fact: Carolina was terrible when he was out last year. Carolina won the division with him back. Maybe they got that much better or maybe it was a coincidence.

Yes, jake was better than David Carr & Vinny Testaverde. That's a biiiiiggg plus for him.

Quote:

Fact: Steve Smith in 2007: 87 rec. 1002 yds. 7 TD's Steve Smith in 2008: 79 rec. 1421 yds. 6 TD's despite running the ball alot more.

Again, I ain't going to argue Misjake was better than 2 QB's no longer inthe game.

Quote:

Fact: They're are literally too many instances of clutch performances and great comebacks that few QB's could have engineered to list here and we saw some of those this year. Bottom line is....the guy makes plays in the passing game. Granted, some of those plays will be bad, but so many of those were good. Be careful what you wish for is all I'm saying.

I'm not living in the past. I'm living in the now. What jake is now is a veteran backup. He's the guy you add to groom your rookie 1st round draft pick. Teams are going to double SS, stack the LOS, & dare jake to beat them. And he can't do that.

I'm not calling for the Panthers to sign Joey Harrington. I'm not saying sell the team to pick Sam Bradford. I'm saying the writing is on the wall. jake is not going to get Carolina to the SB. If someone is available, get him. I'm not under the illusion its going to be easy to find. They may be stuck w/him next season. But try.

[Exonerated]

Tim Tebow in 2010.

[callmetaternuts]

Smith (so far) has kept his mouth shut and supported the team and QB. Rare now a days

[jmood88]

Quote: Originally Posted by callmetaternuts

Smith (so far) has kept his mouth shut and supported the team and QB. Rare now a days

Not really it's just that people question the motivation of other players that do it.

[Rocky]

Quote: Originally Posted by J0nnD0ugh

Why bring that up? What kind of personel did Roth have around him? jake had a better line, healthy RB's all year & a better WR. McNabb was benched & still had better numbers than jake. Garrard is much younger &, again, has much worse personel around him. You're just making the argument against Misjake stronger.

Whose making excuses now? Don't Hill, Edwards, and Seneca Wallace have worst supporting cast than a Garrard or a McNabb or a Roethlisberger? C'mon, you're smarter than this.....those passer rating numbers are meaningless. For the most part, we had the same talent last year and they looked pedestrian at best.

Quote: Originally Posted by J0nnD0ugh

Against defenses still finding their way. And like I said, jake is regressing. Those games were the 1st half of the year. What made Saturday so absurd is that these weren't tipped-passes-hit-as-he-threw-WR's-went-the-wrong-way INT's. There were bad passes thrown straight into the teeth of the defense. Double coverage, into the center of the zone, covered like a glove. He didn't look like a rookie QB in the NFL. He looked like a freshman in the NFL. It wasn't a question of skill. It was a question of brain power. Like he didn't have clue what was going on on the field.

He led us to the win in those games. Give the man some credit....he's been doing it for years. So he got dumber over the course of the season? Look, they're always going to be "Bad Jake" moments and Saturday night was one of them. But don't try to discredit his season and actually say that we won "in spite of him". (lol)

Quote: Originally Posted by J0nnD0ugh

Most of the time, yes. But you want a QB who can take over when the running game is stifled. Rivers can do that. Cassel can do that. jake can't. No longer.

A overwhelmingly winning record with a SB appearance and 3 division titles say otherwise. A 12-4 record with a division title says otherwise. C'mon, don't act like he was ineffective for the whole season when he CLEARLY was.

Quote: Originally Posted by J0nnD0ugh

Yes, jake was better than David Carr & Vinny Testaverde. That's a biiiiiggg plus for him. Again, I ain't going to argue Misjake was better than 2 QB's no longer inthe game. I'm not living in the past. I'm living in the now. What jake is now is a veteran backup. He's the guy you add to groom your rookie 1st round draft pick. Teams are going to double SS, stack the LOS, & dare jake to beat them. And he can't do that. I'm not calling for the Panthers to sign Joey Harrington. I'm not saying sell the team to pick Sam Bradford. I'm saying the writing is on the wall. jake is not going to get Carolina to the SB. If someone is available, get him. I'm not under the illusion its going to be easy to find. They may be stuck w/him next season. But try.

Easier said than done. Period. The names you've mentioned were either one year wonders (Anderson, Cassel) or guys that have the same problems as Jake (Leftwich). Teams don't double SS, stack the LOS precisely because of Delhomme. Again, your sounding like Delhomme is some bum that you can throw in the garbage when he's obviously not.

[J0nnD0ugh]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rocky

Whose making excuses now? Don't Hill, Edwards, and Seneca Wallace have worst supporting cast than a Garrard or a McNabb or a Roethlisberger? C'mon, you're smarter than this.....those passer rating numbers are meaningless. For the most part, we had the same talent last year and they looked pedestrian at best.

I'm not making excuses. The majority of those QB's have done more w/less than what jake has. I acknowledged the Panthers were better this year. Once more, do you really think I'd prefer Carr or Vinny? So get off that. That's not the issue. The issue is: should the Panthers expect more than what jake provided? The answer is an unquestionable, yes.

Quote:

He led us to the win in those games. Give the man some credit....he's been doing it for years. So he got dumber over the course of the season? Look, they're always going to be "Bad Jake" moments and Saturday night was one of them. But don't try to discredit his season and actually say that we won "in spite of him". (lol)

Your problem is you can't see the present truth because of misplaced loyalty to Misjake for what he did in the past. Stop looking in the way-back machine & look what @ what the man is now. A below average Qb.

And yes, I'm saying he got dumber over the year. What excuse was there for any of those intercepted passes Saturday? How can anybody sit around & say he put any thought into those throws? Arizona didn't have to dive for those balls. They didn't ricochet off any receiver's hands. There wasn't any disguised scheme. He wasn't baited. No one was coming in unblocked. They were the throws from a stupid QB. There's no arguing that.

Quote:

A overwhelmingly winning record with a SB appearance and 3 division titles say otherwise. A 12-4 record with a division title says otherwise. C'mon, don't act like he was ineffective for the whole season when he CLEARLY was.

That record, this season, had little to do w/having jake calling signals. You can get any average QB to give you average results. I'm not unthankful for what he did in the past. I'm saying its irrellevant to the present & future. Quit basing this on what jake did in 03-06. That's basing this on hope. Not on the facts.

Quote:

Easier said than done. Period. The names you've mentioned were either one year wonders (Anderson, Cassel) or guys that have the same problems as Jake (Leftwich). Teams don't double SS, stack the LOS precisely because of Delhomme. Again, your sounding like Delhomme is some bum that you can throw in the garbage when he's obviously not.

One, I never mentioned Anderson. 2nd @ least Leftwich has youth on his side. He can get better. Three, I didn't say teams employed that strategy full time this season. They will, though, after watching him implode vs Arizona.