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NBA 2K11 News Post


2K Sports has just posted another NBA 2K11 Developer Insight. This one focusing on making a smarter game, written by Mike Wang and Jerson Sapida.

Quote:
"Now letís talk about AI. Authenticity and Signature Style have always been strong points of 2K basketball. For NBA 2K11, we really wanted to take that to new heights both on the player level, as well as the team level. When I came back to the team last year and saw how much work the guys had done with the player tendencies, in partnership with 82games, I was really impressed. The thing I was most impressed by is how well all of the new tendencies had been integrated into the code. You can really see how each player rating and tendency is translated into how a real basketball player ďthinksĒ out there on the floor. When I first played NBA 2K10, the difference between the superstars and the not-so-superstars immediately came through. But as I took the game to the lab, and really dissected each player and team, it really gave me an appreciation for just how much work had been done in that regard. Kobe loved his dribble pull up, Melo attacked like Melo on the perimeter as well as in the post, and J.R. Smith launched any shot from anywhere and everywhere without hesitation."

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Member Comments
# 101 bearschicago @ 08/08/10 11:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdx_24
Loves the message of ďmaking a smarter game,Ē but very disappointed after reading of how theyíre planning to make the game ďsmarterĒ. I must be among the few (the only one?) that did not like this insights because it looks like many of you in this thread are very excited. Iíll quickly address some of the changes talked about that Iím looking forward to and some that Iím lukewarm about. But my main focus Ė and gripes Ė will once again be on defense (or lack thereof).

Iím always for giving users more options, so I like the newly inclusion of ďGame StyleĒ. Personally, I donít think Iíll even touch ďGame StyleĒ since I love adjusting the sliders to closely fit the way I want to play the game. Nonetheless, I see this feature as being useful for those who donít like to spend a lot of time messing with sliders. Iím also excited about the added Tendencies, especially the Touches tendency. Stars and superstars just donít touch the ball enough in all previous NBA 2K games. Their Usage Rates need to increase dramatically to get the sense of them dominating the game. The rest Iím either lukewarm about or donít understand how the changes will affect gameplay yet.
Now onto my gripes. Take a look at this insights:


This insights was written last year for 2K10! I call B.S. on any of this ever came to fruition in 2K10. In fact, I would say 2K10 was easier to score in the paint than previous NBA 2K games. I'd be very excited if the same was said for 2K11, but only this time mean it. By far the biggest problem for the NBA 2K franchise has been DEFENSE, DEFENSE, and some more DEFENSE. And in the paint defense is the biggest culprit for the defensive woes. It is ridiculously easy to thread the needle in the paint every time to a big man and have him score the basket 80%+ of the time. I can use a center with the lowest passing rating and still rack up assists by passing the ball on a dime to a player streaking to the basket or just passing it to the unguarded big man in the paint. It is ridiculous when I can easily score 90% of all my points in the paint. In the NBA, youíd have to play a very lousy defensive team to even score close to 40% of your points in the paint. The unbelievably accurate lead pass (by every player, not just the players with high passing ratings) and the stupidity of the AI defenders to not put a hand on their man in the paint is squarely to blame for this. Offball contact in the paint is much needed. Don't let offensive players roam in the paint willy nilly.

And please, not every big man is a Chris Paul when it comes to passing. Hell, not any player is Chris Paul when it comes to passing (not even Kidd). While Iím complaining about big men with point guard skills, how about totally making them useless with all the fancy ball handling? When was the last time Yao Ming dribble in traffic getting past defenders for a basket? In NBA 2K, at will. Letís face it, the bigs have their advantage in height, not skills!

Defense (in the paint) and lead passing are the glaring problems and this yearís insights on defense is this:


Preventing the ball handler from penetrating is not and has never been a problem. If it is a problem, it is that the defender are too well able to prevent the ball handler from penetrating. Shaq or Yao being able to stay with Chris Paul on the perimeter is an example. However, preventing the ball handler from getting to the hoop continues to be a major problem. Thereís a fine and very important distinction there. As noted by 2K game developer himself, even the best perimeter defender cannot stop his man from going past him. What separates a great perimeter defender from an average one is he can slow down his man enough to allow help defense to come over in time to prevent the ball handler from getting to the basket. Perimeter defense is fine the way it is now. It is the help defense that is the problem. Make it so that the ball handlers are worry of drawing a charge when they take it to the basket. Make it so that the ball handlers are worry of the help defense coming over sending the ball to the fifth row. As it is right now, there is hardly charges drawn in the paint or any shot blocking from help defense.

Fix the help defense, especially in the paint defense. Completely re-work the lead pass and ball handling so that playmakers are appreciated for their skills and likewise finishers for theirs. Everything else is just spraying cologne on turd.

Sorry it is so long. I still have got a lot more gripes and suggestions, but done for now.

I agree with everything you said. Another insight in 2K10 that was not true(perhaps it was a programming issue).

Quote:
Living Rosters will update the playbook based on your team/coach, so your main squad will be up-to-date. Trades will happen that completely changes the team dynamics and with that, playbooks will need updating as well. I am sure that will be discussed in a future Living Rosters Insight.
http://community.2ksports.com/commun...id=987609&l=11

With regards to lead passing, pick-and-roll defense/lack of off-ball contact: How to fix the Lead Pass/Make it Realistic

My ultimate Sim wishlist: http://www.operationsports.com/forum...shlist-54.html Post #539 and 540 Tell me what you think.

2K10 would've been an amazing game if offball defense was more physical/realistic(putting a hand on their man), AI CPU were able to do canimation blocks like human users(Draft Combine had this) and lots of little glitches were fixed(AI CPU backcourt violations/AI CPU getting stuck in baseline areas/baseline layups not initiating any contact/etc).

But I have extremely high hopes for 2K11. The reason is this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bearschicago
I'm wondering if 2K11 will finally include a simple animation of offball defenders 'putting a hand on the man he is guarding' especially within 15 feet? This occurs all the time in the NBA.

This will prevent cheap backdoor cuts/lead pass as well as providing some resistance when players try and cut to the rim.

First basketball video game to implement this animation will go a long way in the Sim department.

Also the lead pass needs to be toned down. Currently it is too fast and accurate. Needs to be fixed in two ways.

1. Lead pass is slow but accurate.
2. Lead pass is fast but not as accurate(have to gather to catch the ball).

For more info on this: http://www.operationsports.com/forum...realistic.html

Also the ultimate Sim wishlist. I posted this also on 2K Sports forums and also PM'd it to SimBaller here on OperationSports. He hasn't replied to me yet.

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...shlist-54.html Post #539 and 540.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bearschicago
Beluba, could you please provide an answer or is it too early to discuss gameplay? Perhaps could you mention at least that you guys are tweaking on lead pass/passing in general and adding a simple animation of 'offball defenders putting a hand' on their man?

Would be much appreciated especially within this Sim community.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beluba
Sorry. It's too early to disclose info. Once we get closer to ship I'll be happy to share more details on what you can expect for 2K11. We have read your wishlist though and are incorporating your feedback the best we can.

Since I don't want Da-Czar calling me out again(he wrote that I post the same things too often) I will end it with this:

With Michael Jordan on the cover, Mike Wang back(Beluba) and the 2K staff reading my ultimate Sim wishlist, I honestly believe 2K11 will be an all-time great.
 
# 102 DGMikeBarker @ 08/08/10 12:41 PM
I would have some questions about it if I hadn't read the IGN preview which is praising 2k11. Also, 2k10 Insights were all true if you read carefully, just not as true as we'd like .
 
# 103 Boilerbuzz @ 08/08/10 12:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smithdynasty
Im saddened by this BLOG post because all it does is make me think about how good COLLEGE HOOPS 2K11 would be...SMH!!!!!!
Damn! You're right. Now I'm bummed. Thanks man. :P
 
# 104 rspencer86 @ 08/08/10 02:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boilerbuzz
Damn! You're right. Now I'm bummed. Thanks man. :P
Ugh, I don't want to even think about that. The lack of ANY college hoops game at all is a stake through my heart.

Alright, back to 2K11 and positive thoughts...
 
# 105 reptilexcq @ 08/08/10 03:18 PM
With all these tendencies that 2K added this year, i think they forgot one thing: Emotion tendency!! To take the game to a more super realistic level, they should have emotion tendency so players like Kobe would be seen raising his hand and wanting the ball to go to him when the Lakers are in trouble. And also how each player are likely to argue with the refs. These type of reaction is going to add more realism to the game rather than random reaction or emotional outbursts that they already have which is not represent the player at all.
 
# 106 greenegt @ 08/08/10 03:50 PM
GREAT blog! Can't wait to get my hands on the game.
 
# 107 Hotobu @ 08/08/10 05:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdx_24
snip
LOL at the 2K10 defensive insight throwback. Could you send me a direct link to that? I knew there was stuff like that from year's pas that they didn't deliver on. It'd be nice to have a direct reference to it.
 
# 108 Gmoney2002 @ 08/08/10 05:16 PM
Very insightful indeed. 200 animations just for off-ball movement is staggering but i'll wait until the demo drops to see for myself...
 
# 109 NINJAK2 @ 08/08/10 06:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by reptilexcq
With all these tendencies that 2K added this year, i think they forgot one thing: Emotion tendency!! To take the game to a more super realistic level, they should have emotion tendency so players like Kobe would be seen raising his hand and wanting the ball to go to him when the Lakers are in trouble. And also how each player are likely to argue with the refs. These type of reaction is going to add more realism to the game rather than random reaction or emotional outbursts that they already have which is not represent the player at all.
There is already an emotion tendency in 2k10 I believe.
 
# 110 Crossover1 @ 08/08/10 08:56 PM
It's a rating, not a tendency.
 
# 111 eko718 @ 08/08/10 09:47 PM
Beluba,

I know this isn't Q&A but it would be great if you can clarify one thing(if not here on a future insight); Do Game Styles replace difficulty levels? Are there no longer rookie through HOF difficulty levels? Are Game Styles more like slider presets or do they work in conjunction with sliders?
 
# 112 blues rocker @ 08/08/10 10:22 PM
i hope in the next insight they show some video. I'm tired of reading about the improvements...i want to see them.
 
# 113 mikenoob @ 08/08/10 10:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eko718
Beluba,

I know this isn't Q&A but it would be great if you can clarify one thing(if not here on a future insight); Do Game Styles replace difficulty levels? Are there no longer rookie through HOF difficulty levels? Are Game Styles more like slider presets or do they work in conjunction with sliders?
It's stated in the second paragraph...

Quote:
Before we get into that, I wanted to reveal a new option that we’ve added for this year’s game that I am sure will excite you throughly. We have a huge team here and we all have a different perspective for how a basketball sim should be played/tuned, much like our ever-growing consumer base. One way we attempted to satisfy all parties was to introduce a new option called Game Style. Changing this option will significantly change the way you experience NBA 2K11. So when you get your hands on the game this October, play around with the different settings, as well as the difficulty level setting, to see what best fits your style of game and experience level. Here’s a quick rundown of what we were shooting for with the different settings:
 
# 114 eko718 @ 08/08/10 11:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikenoob
It's stated in the second paragraph...
It is... noticed that after I posted it.
 
# 115 49UNCFan @ 08/09/10 12:15 AM
Wonder if the Refs will review questionable calls.
 
# 116 bearschicago @ 08/09/10 12:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotobu
LOL at the 2K10 defensive insight throwback. Could you send me a direct link to that? I knew there was stuff like that from year's pas that they didn't deliver on. It'd be nice to have a direct reference to it.
http://community.2ksports.com/commun...id=999213&l=11

http://community.2ksports.com/commun...d=1002935&l=11

http://community.2ksports.com/commun...d=1003473&l=11

Just read through it.

Looking back, some things I found interesting:

Quote:
With smarter player rotation and help defense, you will no longer feel like ‘babysitting’ your CPU teammates on defense to get them in the correct position on the court
CPU defense is still not where it should be.

Quote:
Defensive Rotations are new in NBA 2K10. Last year, our Help Defense system relied on assessing the best defender to help based on distance from ball and closeness to basket. However, it failed to truly represent the fact that rotations in basketball are part of an underlying strategy by the coaches to cater to their defensive strengths. In NBA 2K10, we spent a ton of time trying to balance these rotations correctly based on defensive awareness and ball position.

The rotation of the defense usually creates an opening that the offense will have. Think of it as pulling a short blanket to cover your body. As you pull it one way, another extremity will be exposed. The game is to expose the least important extremity, and hope that the offense doesn’t realize where that extremity is.

The new fun element on defense now is a security that help comes in a timely fashion, but if the offensive player recognizes where the rotation leaves the open man, you will need to recover as quickly to him as possible, and that isn’t always feasible.

Rotations also factor in the double team logic, now. What that means to the user is that the rest of the team will rotate to cover in case of a double team. Again, all of this because playing team defense is a preset strategy and not just an awareness check.
In doing all this, we created a new dynamic in playing team offense and defense and added a dimension to our game that was previously lacking.
I didn't really notice this. Rotations/help defense/help-the-helper were either too late or didn't show up at all.

Quote:
In previous versions of the game, fans complained that the defenders were too casual on the floor, almost looking like they are not paying attention to what’s going on around them. In 2K10, players will now appear more intense off the ball, especially when their match-up is only one pass away from the ball handler. You will see players position themselves to defend a pass, stick their arms out in the passing lane, reach out and feel their man when looking at the ball, and many other little nuances that makes defender more active and gives the game that realistic feel.
I also didn't see any aggresive off-ball defense. Never putting a hand on their man especially within 15 feet.
 
# 117 Kaanyr Vhok @ 08/09/10 01:44 AM
Lurking Visual Concepts folks aka LVCF: Can we finally have a CPU opponent that scouts our VIPs and comes up with game plans to utilize strategic double teams and their own stoppers?
 
# 118 Kaanyr Vhok @ 08/09/10 01:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bearschicago
http://community.2ksports.com/commun...id=999213&l=11

http://community.2ksports.com/commun...d=1002935&l=11

http://community.2ksports.com/commun...d=1003473&l=11

Just read through it.

Looking back, some things I found interesting:



CPU defense is still not where it should be.



I didn't really notice this. Rotations/help defense/help-the-helper were either too late or didn't show up at all.



I also didn't see any aggresive off-ball defense. Never putting a hand on their man especially within 15 feet.
The help defense was a lot better than 2k9's. Unfortunately 2k9 had close to 0 help defense. You could improve it by leaps and bounds and it would still suck.
 
# 119 jeebs9 @ 08/09/10 10:16 AM
I'm so excited reading this. I love the part about the players taking better angles. That was a huge problem in 2k10. Players exactly like the explained....missile...
 
# 120 Goffs @ 08/09/10 10:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeebs9
I'm so excited reading this. I love the part about the players taking better angles. That was a huge problem in 2k10. Players exactly like the explained....missile...
i hope this jostling animation they added isnt just limited to playing the guy with the ball....i want contact animations for the guys without the ball as well....solves that mario running feel when running into someone...

i still remember what beluba said in one of his NBA LIVE 10 vids about how the players have a more organic feel to them when they make contact with each other and it shows to....i hope they implemented that in 2k11...
 


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