MLB The Show 18 Twitch Stream Starting Now - Franchise Mode

[BigOscar]

Re: MLB The Show 18 Twitch Stream Starting Now - Franchise Mode

Did anyone ever figure out how to scale the contracts maybe. Based on the real contracts but to the shows scale?

I've been looking at it and I think maybe about 80% would be as close as you'll get, but even that's not perfect as the AI seriously undervalues some positions like RP (hence Miller getting a 5 year $35m contract, just because he's not a closer)

on that stream, Altuve got a 9 year, $226m contract, which is about $24.5m a year. Harper got $183m over 7 years (about $26m). In real life Altuve just signed a 5 year $151m contract and that wasn't even on free agency. So I reckon if you scaled the real life numbers down by maybe 20% you'd be getting towards the right ballpark figure. (although this off season has confused things a bit) I'd have to mess around a bunch to see whether this would actually work though

[KnightTemplar]

Re: MLB The Show 18 Twitch Stream Starting Now - Franchise Mode

Fact is, there is NO WAY to get it working exactly like real life because it IS NOT real life! It’s a video game that does not know what is happening in the real world!

30 team control is not just a work around, it is the final answer. You can see it in the developers faces when they see players on the trade block that probably won’t be there IRL. They know there is no way to fix it, and they don’t waste time trying. They give us 30 team control and move on to logic they can actually improve like retirement and lineups.

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BING0! I remember the anger at how the AI would auto fix lineups and why the heck was the (in real life) 3 hitter batting 5th. It was because the AI does not know names. It knows ATTRIBUTES and these people were still wanting that those players somehow be tagged so that they would bat in the "proper" lineup slot.

The 30 teams control you speak of IS the answer, because again, the AI does not recognize the name Arenado, or Stanton, but they want it to. SONY needs to put a disclaimer on this wonderful game. MLB THE SHOW 18....A VIDEO GAME....NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH REAL LIFE.

This is the post of the year SidBream.

[Comduklakis]

Re: MLB The Show 18 Twitch Stream Starting Now - Franchise Mode

Agreed. People complaining about trade logic would be complaining regardless of how well it worked.

Fact is, there is NO WAY to get it working exactly like real life because it IS NOT real life! It’s a video game that does not know what is happening in the real world!

30 team control is not just a work around, it is the final answer. You can see it in the developers faces when they see players on the trade block that probably won’t be there IRL. They know there is no way to fix it, and they don’t waste time trying. They give us 30 team control and move on to logic they can actually improve like retirement and lineups.






Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

while trade logic can never be perfect, one could hope they could implement certain aspects to improve it.

1. markets. While I'm not sure MLB or MLBPA would be on board with this, having market size be part of the equation would help realism. KC is not trading for Stanton. Oakland is not signing Altuve. NY is willing to pay more. And of course allow players to turn this off or set their own markets if they wish.

2. goals. Teams should be in cycles depending on their market size (teams like NY or LA "rebuild" faster than KC or Tampa Bay) and base moves on these cycles. If you just lost 100 games and aren't in line to be a contender, then a small market team shouldn't be signing a 32 year old 2b to a large contract. Conversely, teams that are competing for the pennant should be signing "final pieces" and possibly overbidding to do it. There should be a number of types of cycles not just rebuilding, competing, world series contender.

3. put a lot of attention into coding by position. Don't sign two all star first basemen. A rebuilding team shouldn't sign a veteran to a long term deal to play 1b when they have an A level prospect at AA or AAA. While this is highly complicated, this is key to improving logic. The AI needs to think like a real GM. Don't clog up the path to the big leagues for top prospects. Don't sign redundant talent (yes I know the Arod/Jeter situation but there are always anomalies, 99.9% of the time you don't, so the logic should say you don't. Got your own team or doing 30 team control? Then by all means sign Hosmer and Goldschmidt and turn one of them into a 3b)

4. Team types. Again this should be able to be turned off or edited but have KC sign or trade to match a "small ball" (as small ball as exists in 2018) team. Have Boston by a team that thrives on power and walks.

5. Trades would need to add 3 team (or 4 team) trades and trade delay, but beyond that again take into account team types, team cycles, redundancy/upcoming prospects, etc. Far too many (in this game and nba2k) SS for SS type trades. Trades are generally about one team trying to get a final piece to win and another trying to get younger and cheaper. That logic is by far the worst part of trade logic. You simply don't see it. Expensive vets are overvalued by teams that wouldn't want them. Prospects are undervalued for existing starting players.

All of this is horribly complicated, I know. But to say they can't because the AI doesn't know "names" has nothing to do with it. And if you are worried about a situation where you believe the Angels want Trout for life or the Cubs want Bryant for life, then developers should add an option to tag a player as untouchable and they won't get traded and come free agency, barring a low ball offer (50% of market or something) they always re-sign.

They should always strive to do better, as we should be somewhat understanding of the challenges of all the moving parts that go into free agent/trade logic.

[nemesis04]

Re: MLB The Show 18 Twitch Stream Starting Now - Franchise Mode

Unfortunately Franchise mode is not a one size fits all type mode. You have people that fall into different categories based on their knowledge/interest which range from the top OOTP level player down to the franchise light person. As much as I love this sport I find a lot of the front office tasks very mundane in nature and put myself in the lower tier franchise player.

As a developer where do you shoot your arrow for the level of focus? It appears it tends to be towards the middle lower franchise player which does not offer much of anything to the enthusiast. For the hardcore people there really is not much to be excited for in what was presented.

Phases is aimed for my tier, put me on rails and help me get the necessary things accomplished as easy and seemless as possible. I can understand why the hardcore guys are underwhelmed, it's like giving a senior in high school kindergarten work. I know they have to design with the lowest common denominator in mind but in certain aspects it feels like they are catering too much to that group and boxing out the higher tier by not offering enough to keep that group enticed.

[BigOscar]

Re: MLB The Show 18 Twitch Stream Starting Now - Franchise Mode

Yeah, the "it will never be perfect so you can't complain about it" argument doesn't hold much weight with me, as that's true of literally everything in computer game and is just an excuse to not even try. Trade logic will never be just like real life, but it can still improve a lot

[KCowse]

Re: MLB The Show 18 Twitch Stream Starting Now - Franchise Mode

Unfortunately Franchise mode is not a one size fits all type mode. You have people that fall into different categories based on their knowledge/interest which range from the top OOTP level player down to the franchise light person. As much as I love this sport I find a lot of the front office tasks very mundane in nature and put myself in the lower tier franchise player.



As a developer where do you shoot your arrow for the level of focus? It appears it tends to be towards the middle lower franchise player which does not offer much of anything to the enthusiast. For the hardcore people there really is not much to be excited for in what was presented.



Phases is aimed for my tier, put me on rails and help me get the necessary things accomplished as easy and seemless as possible. I can understand why the hardcore guys are underwhelmed, it's like giving a senior in high school kindergarten work. I know they have to design with the lowest common denominator in mind but in certain aspects it feels like they are catering too much to that group and boxing out the higher tier by not offering enough to keep that group enticed.

With the easy to enable automation, I think SDS could actually cater to both. You could include every advanced GM action possible, but hide them from folks who don't want to use it. They already include more detail than they have to if they were just looking to sell to the lowest common denominator. I doubt many at that level would notice or care about the difference between all of the different types of free agency, arbitration vs. renewable contacts, etc. I hope as it moves forward we get more and more depth to choose between auto and manual.

[TheBleedingRed21]

Re: MLB The Show 18 Twitch Stream Starting Now - Franchise Mode

Yeah, the "it will never be perfect so you can't complain about it" argument doesn't hold much weight with me, as that's true of literally everything in computer game and is just an excuse to not even try. Trade logic will never be just like real life, but it can still improve a lot

Who said you can’t complain? It’s always been said to be constructive and voice your opinion.

That just means don’t come in here saying “Well they just added socks to franchise this year, this game sucks”

Not all who complain do that, but the ones that do are the reason you see others defend SDS so heavily because of the hyperbole that is always present.

This goes both ways, quoting someone complaining say “Nah, this is the best game ever, you’re wrong” is also something you should never do.

[BigOscar]

Re: MLB The Show 18 Twitch Stream Starting Now - Franchise Mode

Who said you can’t complain? It’s always been said to be constructive and voice your opinion.

That just means don’t come in here saying “Well they just added socks to franchise this year, this game sucks”

Not all who complain do that, but the ones that do are the reason you see others defend SDS so heavily because of the hyperbole that is always present.

This goes both ways, quoting someone complaining say “Nah, this is the best game ever, you’re wrong” is also something you should never do.

It's more a response to people making the excuse that the trade AI can never be perfect, as a defence for the AI currently being pretty poor. There are a ton of factors that could be added to make trades and FA logic better and hopefully it's something they look at in the future.

[EnigmaNemesis]

Re: MLB The Show 18 Twitch Stream Starting Now - Franchise Mode

It's more a response to people making the excuse that the trade AI can never be perfect, as a defence for the AI currently being pretty poor. There are a ton of factors that could be added to make trades and FA logic better and hopefully it's something they look at in the future.

Can you provide a list?

[nemesis04]

Re: MLB The Show 18 Twitch Stream Starting Now - Franchise Mode

With the easy to enable automation, I think SDS could actually cater to both. You could include every advanced GM action possible, but hide them from folks who don't want to use it. They already include more detail than they have to if they were just looking to sell to the lowest common denominator. I doubt many at that level would notice or care about the difference between all of the different types of free agency, arbitration vs. renewable contacts, etc. I hope as it moves forward we get more and more depth to choose between auto and manual.

At face value it would seem like the easy solution build the mode to the hilt and auto everything the user does not want to be involved with. Then comes the next question, based on their feedback on how they gather information they find 80% auto the tasks in franchise and 20% use the feature. Is it worth the time effort and resources to put these in depth features only to have the majority auto them? I don't know the answer to that but I would think that has to be in thought process in guiding their direction.

[extremeskins04]

Re: MLB The Show 18 Twitch Stream Starting Now - Franchise Mode

Can you provide a list?

Dude once again, look at other games. OOTP, Football Manager, NBA 2k are the 3 best at it right now. Model it after them.

[TheBleedingRed21]

Re: MLB The Show 18 Twitch Stream Starting Now - Franchise Mode

It's more a response to people making the excuse that the trade AI can never be perfect, as a defence for the AI currently being pretty poor. There are a ton of factors that could be added to make trades and FA logic better and hopefully it's something they look at in the future.

So I’m one that said it can’t be perfect, because you know.. it can’t. You know that as well.

I think you misunderstood what I mean though, clearly it can be better. I know that. I want that. If anyone says otherwise, they lying.

As I’ve said before, just because we (those that defend SDS) make a counter point, doesn’t mean we don’t agree there needs to be improvment. Quicker people realize that, less arguments I think will ensue.

[KBLover]

Re: MLB The Show 18 Twitch Stream Starting Now - Franchise Mode

It's more a response to people making the excuse that the trade AI can never be perfect, as a defence for the AI currently being pretty poor. There are a ton of factors that could be added to make trades and FA logic better and hopefully it's something they look at in the future.

The main thing I have with a lot of the improvements people want is that it would remove unpredictability.

It's a reason why the gameplay is good - it captures the unpredictable nature of the game while still being quality. But with trades, people seem to want strict sets of rules that would take unpredictable/surprise deals out.

I don't want a lack of unpredictability where if you learn the new trade rules, you can expect what will happen. This is especially true the later I get into franchise.

[Mortimus]

Re: MLB The Show 18 Twitch Stream Starting Now - Franchise Mode

Unfortunately Franchise mode is not a one size fits all type mode. You have people that fall into different categories based on their knowledge/interest which range from the top OOTP level player down to the franchise light person. As much as I love this sport I find a lot of the front office tasks very mundane in nature and put myself in the lower tier franchise player.

As a developer where do you shoot your arrow for the level of focus? It appears it tends to be towards the middle lower franchise player which does not offer much of anything to the enthusiast. For the hardcore people there really is not much to be excited for in what was presented.

Phases is aimed for my tier, put me on rails and help me get the necessary things accomplished as easy and seemless as possible. I can understand why the hardcore guys are underwhelmed, it's like giving a senior in high school kindergarten work. I know they have to design with the lowest common denominator in mind but in certain aspects it feels like they are catering too much to that group and boxing out the higher tier by not offering enough to keep that group enticed.

perfectly well said.

[BigOscar]

Re: MLB The Show 18 Twitch Stream Starting Now - Franchise Mode

Can you provide a list?

What kind of team the buyers/sellers are (big market, small market)
What kind of depth that team has in the minors in different positions?
Are the teams rebuilding or pushing for all in? (that's in the game but doesn't play nearly a big enough role as you still see rebuilding teams trade top prospects and acquire veterans)
Are the teams divisional rivals?
Contract length needs to have way more impact on value


And that's just off the top of my head. Whenever you see a dodgy move by the AI, whether it's the Indians inexplicably trading Jose Ramirez for Whit Merrifield, Stanton on the trade block when the Yankees are going for it, or Altuve signing a 9 year deal with the A's, all you have to do is think "what is the reason that wouldn't happen in real life" and you'd probably come up with more.

I'm not saying all these things should be in there, but more that there is plenty of scope for improvement.