Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on release

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

Haven't really kept up here, but got to play a bit of 2K vs. the CPU on HOF this AM..

Just genuinely curious-

I'm the only one seeing some type of variance or resistance in P&R D?

First P&R play I blew past Bam for an easy bucket. My next couple:

https://streamable.com/gm5xj1

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[jeebs9]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

Playing the launch version of 2K22, probably.

Hahaha I don't why but this post is hilarious

[jeebs9]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

Haven't really kept up here, but got to play a bit of 2K vs. the CPU on HOF this AM..

Just genuinely curious-

I'm the only one seeing some type of variance or resistance in P&R D?

First P&R play I blew past Bam for an easy bucket. My next couple:

https://streamable.com/gm5xj1

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

I was playing the CPU (HOF) yesterday. Had the same out comes

[BaselineBakes]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

Grabbed some clips today. HOF against the CPU on a roster maybe about two weeks old. I player lock with a created PG with no playmaking badges (too overpowered) and speed and acceleration capped at 85 for my player.

Most of these plays are pick and rolls in the flow of the offense (I leave play calling on auto). Some of them are manual picks. I try not to use manual picks very often. My success rate is high but the outcomes are varied enough for me that things stay interesting. I’ve never tried to go wide intentionally and abuse the PNR that way so I can’t speak to that.

https://youtu.be/C45GDW-E-4M

Play 1 - CPU slides under and C doesn’t get lost
Play 2 - C gets lost on the roll
Play 3 - Slow footed PF but center recovers
Play 4 - Guard lets me turn the corner
Play 5 - Guard lets me turn the corner again
Play 6 - C gets beat but recovers
Play 7 C lets me turn the corner
Play 8 - Good under and recover
Play 9 - Rejected the screen and got free
Play 10 - Blown coverage hit the roller
Play 11 - Great hedge and recover
Play 12 - Rejected the screen got the roller


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[MoreThanAGamer]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

I was playing the CPU (HOF) yesterday. Had the same out comes

The variations happen on Pro as well. They do for me.

[ataman5]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

I wrote this quote on the other thread of Impressions but here is another good place to put for. I wish maybe in the future that 2k sticks to their own "Plans" and also do some "Quality" test and stick to it being good as well before every other update or patches and stuff in behind they keep on doing secretly.

I hope that 2k can learn from Football Manager as there are a lot that they can take in terms of interactions and sticking to the roots of the sports game that they deliver whether it's football or basketball, the fun part of those games are the sports itself make sure you deliver that sport into the game and it sure is going to be fun.

On one side you guys are able to see Miles Jacobson from Football Manager who is studio director of Sports Interactive, a very steady guy who is such a classy guy as well as a man of his words.



Link: https://twitter.com/milesSI/status/1454856647927545864


Link: https://twitter.com/milesSI/status/1454856091041505285

A director who says he's going to stick to the plan and stick to quality tests(QUALITY TEST!) as it should for the game release and on. Interesting stuff you know everytime you get to see him directly being honest in interactions. Odd thing, we may find it, once we think about 2K, lol.

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

Haven't really kept up here, but got to play a bit of 2K vs. the CPU on HOF this AM..

Just genuinely curious-

I'm the only one seeing some type of variance or resistance in P&R D?

First P&R play I blew past Bam for an easy bucket. My next couple:

https://streamable.com/gm5xj1

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

I was playing the CPU (HOF) yesterday. Had the same out comes

If basketball was a 2 on 2 game or this was 2 on 2 in blacktop mode or something then this would be great. But it’s not. They band aided resistance but didn’t change help d.

Another thing is what happens in over coverage? Or do we need the cpu to go under everything to achieve this? I’m not a fan of super speed (nor was I of super slow speed) warping defenders in PNR’s. I’m assuming the snake dribble game is probably dead once again which was amazing after patch #1.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

If basketball was a 2 on 2 game or this was 2 on 2 in blacktop mode or something then this would be great. But it’s not. They band aided resistance but didn’t change help d.



Another thing is what happens in over coverage? Or do we need the cpu to go under everything to achieve this? I’m not a fan of super speed (nor was I of super slow speed) warping defenders in PNR’s. I’m assuming the snake dribble game is probably dead once again which was amazing after patch #1.

If help defense was reverted to day one status, there would still be issues with reflecting exactly how help defense works in the NBA. We could likely pick my videos from the first two weeks apart as well. So that's not my point personally...Hell, I'd argue that some of the loosening around the perimeter moreso reflects real life situations (Like the drive and kick I missed in my second vid) . I'm speaking on the CPU's ability to challenge and contain the P&R...as opposed to the free for all I was seeing a short time ago.



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[ataman5]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

If basketball was a 2 on 2 game or this was 2 on 2 in blacktop mode or something then this would be great. But it’s not. They band aided resistance but didn’t change help d.

Another thing is what happens in over coverage? Or do we need the cpu to go under everything to achieve this? I’m not a fan of super speed (nor was I of super slow speed) warping defenders in PNR’s. I’m assuming the snake dribble game is probably dead once again which was amazing after patch #1.

Exactly my thoughts when i saw those instances which are not the issue that we have kept on talking and not really making anything other than 2v2 game more unnaturaly harder than at some in between update version but not the release version, let's make NBA 2vs2 then it would be a lot similar to Bird vs Magic (which 1p modes are based so) and what's the point of an NBA 5V5 simulation for 2k anymore right.

EDIT PS: A reminder of the thread headline which is "Please turn help defense cutter help defense back were release" (Flare sets, cutters are all mostly free to baskets,too)

[ataman5]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

If help defense was reverted to day one status, there would still be issues with reflecting exactly how help defense works in the NBA. So that's not my argument personally...Hell, I'd argue that some of the loosening around the perimeter moreso reflects real life situations. I'm speaking on the CPU's ability to challenge and contain the P&R...as opposed to the free for all I was seeing a short time ago.



Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

No 24th you're not really getting whole picture here or just try hard not to at times i don't know which one is which, i'm not trying to come at you either, just trying to explain my thoughts, no offence please.

We're not really looking for "perfect of anything" or "full of NBA" etc. here we're looking for more natural flow of what we had in the first release and all that mambo jambo they said they improved in the blog that i pretty clearly showcased here and what happened since then.

If you want to settle with what you get now it's ok but don't count on that much either as it may just slip away from your/our hands with another update under the hood anytime soon. But what Vann stated is also what you imply to see and that is "video game bandaids" for the worse.

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

If help defense was reverted to day one status, there would still be issues with reflecting exactly how help defense works in the NBA. We could likely pick my videos from the first two weeks apart as well. So that's not my point personally...Hell, I'd argue that some of the loosening around the perimeter moreso reflects real life situations (Like the drive and kick I missed in my second vid) . I'm speaking on the CPU's ability to challenge and contain the P&R...as opposed to the free for all I was seeing a short time ago.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

Yes the cpu is containing it better than a week ago. No argument there. But not in a realistic or fun way at all. Second, your right at launch it wasn’t perfect either. Again, no argument there. But at least there was help and with sliders I could get rid of the unrealistic BS band aids they used so I was fine with it. After patch #1 was the best the game was after slider edits. Once November 1st hit it’s been a mess and these videos just highlighted it more. We are going from 1 extreme to the next. No balance or in between. It’s obvious they are trying to do something so I’ll applaud it from that point of view (like mike said no middle finger yet), but it’s also very apparent they aren’t budging with the help d either. I mean if people can play with it like this I’m happy for them. Trust me I want to play it and enjoy it like I did before. It WAS the best 2k ever. I’m not all negative it was a great game. But it’s just not right now. I just want it back to where it was even though it might not have been perfect rotations it was better than no rotations. And lastly it’s not even about me as a user (although it is), but it’s the cpu game that’s effected offensively as well. Part of the fun for me is a drive and kick game for the cpu and when they almost play like a human. If no help they can’t do that. It’s the trickle effect.

Exactly my thoughts when i saw those instances which are not the issue that we have kept on talking and not really making anything other than 2v2 game more unnaturaly harder than at some in between update version but not the release version, let's make NBA 2vs2 then it would be a lot similar to Bird vs Magic (which 1p modes are based so) and what's the point of an NBA 5V5 simulation for 2k anymore right.

EDIT PS: A reminder of the thread headline which is "Please turn help defense cutter help defense back were release" (Flare sets, cutters are all mostly free to baskets,too)

Correct and I agree, I am strictly going off the thread title and help defense. Which does effect the pnr. It’s just a band aid. By the way, LMAO at the bird vs Magic I’ll even raise you back to commodore bird vs dr. J! Lol But ya they are trying to make it a 2 on 2 game right now. But hey it’s harder so it’s good again. SMH

No 24th you're not really getting whole picture here or just try hard not to at times i don't know which one is which, i'm not trying to come at you either, just trying to explain my thoughts, no offence please.

We're not really looking for "perfect of anything" or "full of NBA" etc. here we're looking for more natural flow of what we had in the first release and all that mambo jambo they said they improved in the blog that i pretty clearly showcased here and what happened since then.

If you want to settle with what you get now it's ok but don't count on that much either as it may just slip away from your/our hands with another update under the hood anytime soon. But what Vann stated is also what you imply to see and that is "video game bandaids" for the worse.

That’s the thing, I get others are enjoying the game and that’s great. I wish I could but I can’t because it’s not a real simulation right now. I’m a details guy, but also I don’t need it to be perfect. That will come. At launch it wasn’t perfect either but I was loving it after locking in sliders to get rid of the sticky on ball and allow more realistic freedom of movement. That worked because help d was there behind the hip rides and drives.

That’s the whole reason why I’m even here on OS anyways is to talk about how it can improve down the road. The reason I came to OS years ago is the roster section and there were people like me who wanted the same thing. The main forum is a lot different than the roster forum. It’s a bunch of people with 1 common goal. I mean look in Celtics discord channel and how the community is helping each other and fixing all the flaws in the game, sim engine, tendencies, CAPS, playbooks, the G league, sig shots, etc. some see that and others ignore it but there is no denying the difference. Some accept things as they are and others see things the way they really are. Some can ignore the issues and some can’t. Neither is wrong. We just have different wants and needs. That’s especially true with all the different modes now and different systems and experiences that the game gives us. One mode people are loving and another one is broken. Some play online, some play off. But we know guys from here have become devs, we know the devs frequent these boards behind the scene. They know what’s going on. They are lurking, hence the fixes with numerous areas of the game since launch after there were mass complaints and feedback. I’m thinking of broadcast cam or sig shot editors not being able to see the releases, or even the play types not working out of the box and having to use a workaround. All have since been fixed in patches. Also hence the recent update fixes to d. Believe me they are aware of this thread and want it and chases article to go away. Lol But they keep going about fixes the wrong way.

But I’m glad some people aren’t coaches because they would applaud their teams effort and be happy with that. Their team would never improve. I’m never happy even after a 40 point win. Always places to improve. I’m sure devs are the same way and never happy either and always see where it can improve down the road. I always thought that was the point of OS. I mean tons of what’s in the games we play today is because of threads just like this. I’d bet we see most everything we have talked about in this thread in a year or 2. If we don’t point out the flaws how does it improve? Again, I don’t need perfect, it wasn’t perfect on release either, but at least it was fun, at least help d was coming. That I can live with until they can get more realistic real rotations and scrambles down the road.

What I don’t get though is how can they not at the very least add proper drop coverage? It helps PNR defense, allows no help to be needed, and offensively it opens up the mid range and floater game, as well as the snake dribbles. That’s balance. Or option 2 is fix the settings so users can turn off the cutter help and we can have the tags and help back. I’m not saying those are easy fixes. I have no idea. But a couple months should do the trick no? Add in a patch? Is the current update harder? Sure, but unrealistically so… I can live with improper scrambles as long as help is there and back like at launch. I’d be ok with that and know it’s probably going to be in next year. But as is now the game isn’t enjoyable, fun, or most importantly sim until they bring back the help defense. I literally haven’t played this game for a month outside testing each update that comes through. And trust me when I say I want to enjoy it. But these updates are insulting. Like we don’t know what they are doing or can’t see that help d still isn’t there and they are band aiding it. C’mon man!

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

No 24th you're not really getting whole picture here or just try hard not to at times i don't know which one is which, i'm not trying to come at you either, just trying to explain my thoughts, no offence please.

We're not really looking for "perfect of anything" or "full of NBA" etc. here we're looking for more natural flow of what we had in the first release and all that mambo jambo they said they improved in the blog that i pretty clearly showcased here and what happened since then.

If you want to settle with what you get now it's ok but don't count on that much either as it may just slip away from your/our hands with another update under the hood anytime soon. But what Vann stated is also what you imply to see and that is "video game bandaids" for the worse.

You're saying "we", but not everyone is echoing your sentiment. Who are you speaking for? There's been many opinions posted in this thread..some right behind each other that differ greatly.

I don't care to discuss all the "state of 2K" rhetoric and reposting blogs etc...I leave you to it, not my thing. Just here for the digital bball talk.

My post didn't say "This solves help defense", I asked a question. For those saying the P&R is repeatedly exploitable, scoring crazy numbers with speedsters like Fox ironically, are you not seeing the variance I posted in the video? That's it. Trying to put something together.


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[The 24th Letter]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

Yes the cpu is containing it better than a week ago. No argument there. But not in a realistic or fun way at all. Second, your right at launch it wasn’t perfect either. Again, no argument there. But at least there was help and with sliders I could get rid of the unrealistic BS band aids they used so I was fine with it. After patch #1 was the best the game was after slider edits. Once November 1st hit it’s been a mess and these videos just highlighted it more. We are going from 1 extreme to the next. No balance or in between. It’s obvious they are trying to do something so I’ll applaud it from that point of view (like mike said no middle finger yet), but it’s also very apparent they aren’t budging with the help d either. I mean if people can play with it like this I’m happy for them. Trust me I want to play it and enjoy it like I did before. It WAS the best 2k ever. I’m not all negative it was a great game. But it’s just not right now. I just want it back to where it was even though it might not have been perfect rotations it was better than no rotations. And lastly it’s not even about me as a user (although it is), but it’s the cpu game that’s effected offensively as well. Part of the fun for me is a drive and kick game for the cpu and when they almost play like a human. If no help they can’t do that. It’s the trickle effect!

Yeah, I understand how you guys feel about the game and all that, but that has nothing to do with what I asked. I didn't say "See I'm having fun guys!" "Why can't you guys settle for this?" etc. etc.

Just popped in briefly to discuss one piece to a much larger puzzle. You guys can get right back to the other stuff.


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[el jimmy]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

The correlation between 2k this year and the real NBA season is a funny coincidence.

Advertise emphasis on defence (improved system in 2k, offensive rule changes in real life)

Everyone applauds changes

First few weeks players complain of op defence in 2k, real life stars like harden and Trey complain about not getting calls.

2k removes defensive changes to appease complaints (NBA refs soften on rule changes after Superstars whining? A possibility)

Maybe 2k is more realistic then we think lol

[loso_34]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

Yeah, I understand how you guys feel about the game and all that, but that has nothing to do with what I asked. I didn't say "See I'm having fun guys!" "Why can't you guys settle for this?" etc. etc.

Just popped in briefly to discuss one piece to a much larger puzzle. You guys can get right back to the other stuff.


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Lol sassy.