Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on release

[alabamarob]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

off topic but you made a good call predicting vanvleet would be a starting Pg 5-6 years ago.

Vanvleet is a champion and a winner. Will always be one of my favorite players.

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

So I just tried the update for this morning. It is playing pretty good. They got rid of the unrealistic defense from videos shared here previously. It’s realistic again, I also had a snake dribble, and this just happened…

https://twitter.com/vannwolfhawk206/status/1455595353042927618?s=21

Dare I say a tag and help & recover? Off to test some more. Still not seeing the rotations on pnpops anymore unfortunately like I showed earlier. But it feels much better so far and more balanced.

Here is no pick and pop help. Refer to the x outs by cpu in my previous post videos for context.

https://twitter.com/vannwolfhawk206/status/1455596684612812800?s=21

Definitely more variety on PNR’s now that play out more realistically. But haven’t seen another tag so probably an anamoly?

But here is a 2nd tag although late and bad read by me.

https://twitter.com/vannwolfhawk206/status/1455600411847512067?s=21

I think I figured out the problem with consistency on the tag. The roller usually rolls late and the ball handler is already at the paint as the roll starts to happen and the tag help doesn’t recognize it because there is no roll threat yet although the offensive ball handler is already driving and in the paint. Hmm Because I’ve seen the tag a few times and that’s when it’s triggered. I think this is where some will feel it’s too easy again because of this with easy layups or some easy rolls but I’m ok as long as there is variety here.

Here is a great stunt and recover by cpu Morant on the pnpop … definitely seeing some encouraging things in this update!

https://twitter.com/vannwolfhawk206/status/1455605134356987906?s=21

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

All great videos Vann.

As far as freedom of movement, snake dribbling...You feel that the on-ball has become too sticky again to replicate that? I feel I'm still able to do that.

These videos are as of last night but I captured them because I felt they all showed really good help/ recognition from the defense.

Would also like to point out, despite my initial videos, that glitchy 'go over' isn't the only result I see on screens...you'll see examples of the defender dying or fightihg through, or slow to get around them as well.

https://streamable.com/j1ujuu

Drive and kick

https://streamable.com/0fwegt

Not the best example, but able to operate in the middle of the floor, caught the CPU reaching

https://streamable.com/aa4ulk

Step back off P&R

https://streamable.com/khlzjj

and these are on default...seems like sliders would only help.

Also note, I've missed some of the peaks and valleys being a part time online player as well...but this is what I'm seeing recently.

EDIT: This was before your latest post

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[xCoachDx]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

The problem is that the "variance" you have shown has nothing to do with real basketball, but it just shows the various band aids the AI has to help circumvent the lack of help defense (and also proper drop defense). The video you posted shows clearly that the PNR is really about a 2 vs 2 game, where the only variables concern the defenders involved in such scenario and really nobody else's. It's like changing a game of chess to have only the white vs black rooks and queens play against one another instead than having also pawns, bishops and knights around to interact with. The context becomes completely different.

Yeah just what little bit I saw literally shows plain as day the problems we are having. A ball screen gets set and the weakside absolutely doesn’t move. The idea of “oh well they didn’t have to move because they defended the ball screen” is bad logic. Imagine if IRL help defense only came at the moment it was determined it was needed. That would be entirely too late. The weakside defenders should be stepping in to help as the screen is getting set. How much/how little depends offensive personnel. But the idea of allowing just two players to consistently defend a pick and roll is unrealistic from a basketball standpoint.

[xCoachDx]

Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on release

Grabbed some clips today. HOF against the CPU on a roster maybe about two weeks old. I player lock with a created PG with no playmaking badges (too overpowered) and speed and acceleration capped at 85 for my player.

Most of these plays are pick and rolls in the flow of the offense (I leave play calling on auto). Some of them are manual picks. I try not to use manual picks very often. My success rate is high but the outcomes are varied enough for me that things stay interesting. I’ve never tried to go wide intentionally and abuse the PNR that way so I can’t speak to that.

https://youtu.be/C45GDW-E-4M

Play 1 - CPU slides under and C doesn’t get lost
Play 2 - C gets lost on the roll
Play 3 - Slow footed PF but center recovers
Play 4 - Guard lets me turn the corner
Play 5 - Guard lets me turn the corner again
Play 6 - C gets beat but recovers
Play 7 C lets me turn the corner
Play 8 - Good under and recover
Play 9 - Rejected the screen and got free
Play 10 - Blown coverage hit the roller
Play 11 - Great hedge and recover
Play 12 - Rejected the screen got the roller


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There is literally no weakside help in any way in these clips. That’s literally the problem with this game. Whether they are shooters or non-shooters, defenders just stay out there on them. That’s NEVER happening IRL. What’s worse is that help defense IS programmed in the game. It’s just essentially turned off on ball screens for the CPU for inexplicable reasons.

There IS help on drives. Although they often come from the ballside (helping one pass away is a no no off of shooters for obvious reasons) and the full rotation of defenders isn’t quite there. It’s close enough for the most part tho.

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

All great videos Vann.

As far as freedom of movement, snake dribbling...You feel that the on-ball has become too sticky again to replicate that? I feel I'm still able to do that.

These videos are as of last night but I captured them because I felt they all showed really good help/ recognition from the defense.

Would also like to point out, despite my initial videos, that glitchy 'go over' isn't the only result I see on screens...you'll see examples of the defender dying or fightihg through, or slow to get around them as well.

https://streamable.com/j1ujuu

Drive and kick

https://streamable.com/0fwegt

Not the best example, but able to operate in the middle of the floor, caught the CPU reaching

https://streamable.com/aa4ulk

Step back off P&R

https://streamable.com/khlzjj

and these are on default...seems like sliders would only help.

Also note, I've missed some of the peaks and valleys being a part time online player as well...but this is what I'm seeing recently.

EDIT: This was before your latest post

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

Ya all your videos look good to me as well. There was an update yesterday morning but I never tried it. There was also another update this morning and that I did try. You can definitely see the difference. It could have been yesterday though that they fixed it instead of today by looking at your videos. But I’m seeing much better help like in videos I posted in 2nd post and yours. It’s encouraging for sure!!! And yes I got some snakes again now but when you posted videos a few pages back I wasn’t because of under and fast sticky d. There isn’t as much small ball but that’s a slider thing I can slightly tweak to get balance where I like it as long as help is there which seems to be happening more now.

My only complaint is I’d like the pnpop scrambles and help back because that was awesome, currently they stunted which I loved but in other scenario no help triggers. But like I said I don’t need perfect. This is much better overall IMO…

Doesn’t this version feel more balanced to you than before?

[alabamarob]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

I have seen some pretty good rotations, and drive and kick opportunities today. If it stays this way for a week or two I will make a real comment. Otherwise, I will lay low. I have been off this game for the last few weeks, hopefully it is playable again.

The next frontier is this. If they have made the help defense playable/realistic then they need to lower the shot success of wide open shots. I am from the small crowd of people who like to see a smaller success margin between contested and open shots. I loved when they had contested and open shot contest ratings. Right now wide open shots are unrealistically automatic. All 2k would have to do is go into the HOF sliders and lower the success rate of open shots right? Or is this a green release issue?

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

Here is another tag that I should have shot but I’m clearly not used to seeing the tag. Lol

https://twitter.com/vannwolfhawk206/status/1455626169710039042?s=21

There is variety though because sometimes I’m getting wide open lay ins with no help, others I’m getting help with a tag, and others I get with different rotations. I like the variety so far.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

Here is another tag that I should have shot but I’m clearly not used to seeing the tag. Lol

https://twitter.com/vannwolfhawk206/status/1455626169710039042?s=21

There is variety though because sometimes I’m getting wide open lay ins with no help, others I’m getting help. I like the variety so far.

You see me hesitate to pass on a few of my videos too, or make the wrong read...there is a lot more urgency on the weakside, the variety keeps me guessing a bit.

I'd agree, it feels pretty balanced atm. We will see how it goes.

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[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

You see me hesitate to pass on a few of my videos too, or make the wrong read...there is a lot more urgency on the weakside, the variety keeps me guessing a bit.

I'd agree, it feels pretty balanced atm. We will see how it goes.

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Ya I’ve had a few great cpu defensive clips that I’m like I can’t share that because it makes me look bad on my reads. Haha

After playing about 8 quarters now with this update and not changing any sliders (besides where they were) and because most probably think I just like complaining or am negative from posts in this thread I have to say this is the most fun I’ve had since September! So kudos for everyone in this thread as well as 2k, czar, or whoever for trying to fix it. I get everyone’s hesitancy (and I’m right there with you) on let’s see what happens and if another update screws it up but I can see and feel the difference. Much more like basketball again ATM and fun.

[talladega63]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

Vann i really like this thread and thank you because if the game is improving it is also thanks all of you.
Do you play on xbox?
I play on PC do you thinks CeltigLg roster with your playbook will be release also for PC?

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

Vann i really like this thread and thank you because if the game is improving it is also thanks all of you.
Do you play on xbox?
I play on PC do you thinks CeltigLg roster with your playbook will be release also for PC?

Not sure on pc. Join the server tons of guys from OS and you will recognize. I know all platforms are working round the clock. It’s pretty cool talking hoop and everyone working together. The link is in Celtics thread. It’s kind of up to each platform with guys editing and helping eacjother out. I think pf is lagging behind all the rest though to be honest. I’m on Xbox series x. But I’ll post another video of final playbooks when done like the rough draft ones.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

I have seen some pretty good rotations, and drive and kick opportunities today. If it stays this way for a week or two I will make a real comment. Otherwise, I will lay low. I have been off this game for the last few weeks, hopefully it is playable again.



The next frontier is this. If they have made the help defense playable/realistic then they need to lower the shot success of wide open shots. I am from the small crowd of people who like to see a smaller success margin between contested and open shots. I loved when they had contested and open shot contest ratings. Right now wide open shots are unrealistically automatic. All 2k would have to do is go into the HOF sliders and lower the success rate of open shots right? Or is this a green release issue?

Toning down the CPU defenders reaction time on shots would be a great look in addition to all of this...

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[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

This is a new one I hadn’t seen before. Wide open driving lane, cpu comes into help and then we have the cpu immediately help the helper to contest the kick. Great sequence by cpu!

https://twitter.com/vannwolfhawk206/status/1455657954867388429?s=21

[Agame]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

This is a new one I hadn’t seen before. Wide open driving lane, cpu comes into help and then we have the cpu immediately help the helper to contest the kick. Great sequence by cpu!

https://twitter.com/vannwolfhawk206/...867388429?s=21

The Play above is: Quick Stagger First Double( play is under Pick & Roll Option)

This video is the FIRST time I have seen the defense react in time, all other times it's been an easy dunk or layup. NICE to see. I will get on the XBOX tonight. Thanks for posting.