Official Slider Discussion Thread

[acts238shaun]

Re: Official Slider Discussion Thread

Test fight in legacy on GOAT vs. Mundine.

My overall is a 91, his an 82. i had to pull some ish to KO him in 8. I used the following on GOAT:

Power/Toughness was 10/10, changed to 5/2 during fight.
Speed 4
OFF AI was 9 and DEF AI 10

I love the stamina effect at zero, but it requires speed to be at least four in the later rounds and with a higher speed there is little difference between a slow and fast fighter.

That's prolly why I like 8 for stamina a 0 for speed.

Here's why I hate GOAT. Notice the jab hit him and how quickly and old/busted Lamotta counters out of a CRAB guard.

<img style="visibility:hidden;width:0px;height:0px;" border=0 width=0 height=0 src="http://counters.gigya.com/wildfire/IMP/CXNID=2000002.0NXC/bT*xJmx*PTEyNTI1MzI*NDk3MzImcHQ9MTI1MjUzMjQ1NDM*MS ZwPTk1MDcxJmQ9Jmc9MSZvPWY*ZGYzMzMyNTQ4OTQwNjA5YzA1 YjExMjRkZTA4MDMzJm9mPTA=.gif" /><object width="640" height="360"><param name="wmode" value="transparent" valuetype="data" /><param name="movie" value="http://cdn.www.easports.com/static/110.2.1/flash/mdMediaPlugin/mediaplayer.swf?file=http://cdn.content.easports.com/media2/fn4/8924458/972A0001_1_FLV_VIDEO_psB.flv&link=http://www.easports.com/media/play/video/9072729&linkfromdisplay=true&linktarget=_top&image =" valuetype="data" /><embed src="http://cdn.www.easports.com/static/110.2.1/flash/mdMediaPlugin/mediaplayer.swf" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="640" height="360" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" flashvars="height=360&width=640&file=http://cdn.content.easports.com/media2/fn4/8924458/972A0001_1_FLV_VIDEO_psB.flv&link=http://www.easports.com/media/play/video/9072729&linkfromdisplay=true&linktarget=_top&image ="></embed></object><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px;"><a href="http://www.easports.com/" target="_top" shape="rect">EA Sports</a>: <a href="http://www.easports.com/media/play/video/9072729" target="_top" shape="rect">Why I donf play on goat</a></div>

Sigh. I do like how the counter window is smaller on GOAT. I had the AI at 9/10 above.

[parker002]

Re: Official Slider Discussion Thread

I just can't do it anymore. It's too frustrating. I'm gonna start my Legacy on Pro and be done with it.

If anybody's interested, here's the sliders I'm using.

Difficulty - Pro
RFA - 10
RDA - 10
PWR - 6
SPD - 2
DAM - 10
TGH - 4
ACC - 0
STA - 0
CPW - 0
COA - 10
CDA - 10
OUT - 10

[parker002]

Re: Official Slider Discussion Thread

Well, that was a short-lived and stupid experiment.

The computer is just stupid on any level below Champion. They don't press the action, especially after they've been hurt.

I had a fight just a bit ago where the computer got dropped in the 1st and even though his defense was really good after that, he threw TWENTY FOUR punches in the next FOUR ROUNDS. TWENTY FOUR. With output on 10!

This is why it's impossible to lose a decision on Pro - the computer doesn't throw enough punches and thus doesn't land enough punches.

I'm not sure where to go from here.

[Flamehead]

Re: Official Slider Discussion Thread

What are your thoughts on Juke's Goat settings? I tried them, and while good, Goat just seems a little to frenetic to be realistic, you know?

[parker002]

Re: Official Slider Discussion Thread

What are your thoughts on Juke's Goat settings? I tried them, and while good, Goat just seems a little to frenetic to be realistic, you know?

The CPU has a 2 or 3-to-1 advantage in damage on GOAT. His jab does 3 times as much as yours. His jab does more damage than your hook.

Everything on GOAT is good except that. You literally have to land 3 times as many punches to do the same amount of damage. Or you have to set the Power/Toughness ratio so high that if you get hit once, you get knocked out with one punch.

I just don't understand why they tweaked the speed. Every fight now is a frenetic punchfest. Regardless of awareness settings, my fights on Champion have 55-60% connect rates, for both me and the CPU.

[parker002]

Re: Official Slider Discussion Thread

I think I finally have some Champion sliders I can live with. There's some things in here that we either haven't seen since the game first came out or we haven't seen at all. So I will explain in detail, using examples from the 3 matchups that I tested with:

Tyson (me) vs. Eddie Chambers
Calzaghe (me) vs. Tomas Adamek
Morales (me) vs. Barrera

Power - 6
Toughness - 4

I like this as it seems to allow for more decisions, but it doesn't eliminate the flash KO's either. Each time I used Morales vs. Barrera, it went the distance (even though there were lots of cuts, bruising, and low stamina, but that's in the next section). However, in one of my Tyson fights, I actually knocked him down in the 1st with a non-counter right hook and he laid face down on the canvas and never attempted to get up. You heard that right - one non-counter hit, on the first knockdown, in the first round. He never even moved.

Damage - 10

I can't seem to get stoppages any other way. I've seen two so far. On the flip side I've also seen fights where neither fighter had much damage, even late in the fight. I do see alot of cuts though and I'm wondering if this will ultimately need to be tweaked downward. It's a minor issue that will require considerably more testing, so I'm not going to worry about it much.

Speed - 2
Stamina - 0

I've finally gotten used to it and it seems just about perfect. This, combined with the settings in the next section are what make it all work. And it makes doing the training games possible, whereas 0 speed does not.

CPU Offensive Awareness - 0
CPU Defensive Awareness - 10
Punch Output - 6

Here's what I mentioned in the first paragraph. The awareness settings date back to shortly after we started this thread. The Punch Output is something that's only been toyed with - I believe Ank&Ben's sliders had it at 10 but pretty much everybody else has put it at 3 or below. These 3 settings together are the leveler and have a big effect on the stamina problems that plague this game:

1. A higher number of CPU punches forces the player to play defense and be less aggressive, resulting in less Player punches. This results in fights going longer and even to the cards, while still allowing for knockouts from good punches.
   
   
2. The CPU doesn't punch with such surgical precision and uses more exploratory punches, especially jabs. This results in lower connect percentages and more CPU stamina loss.
   
   
3. Decisions are much harder to get. Higher CPU punch output creates punch count parity, resulting in closer decisions. In many cases, it was just too easy to get a decision over the CPU because you could just out-work him.

In my test fights, Eddie Chambers outpunched me by a ratio of 5:4 or more. Granted, most of the fights didn't last long, but I did see rounds where he threw 80 punches. Now I realize this isn't particularly realistic, but the end results are MUCH better.

As Calzaghe against Adamek, I average right at 63 punches per round and he averaged 52. In the past, this matchup either ended up in a knockout or a landslide decision for Calzaghe, simply due to punch output. With these settings, I saw several cards that were very close, including one were I was up on one card, he was up on another, and the final card was a draw.

Morales vs. Barrera was as even as you could get. As I mentioned above, they all went the distance. Punch output was nearly perfect for the evenly matched fighters, including my final match of testing where he throw 623 punches and I threw 621. I won in a narrow unanimous decision.

A couple of final notes about these sliders:

• Whatever you do, don't get backed into the ropes. With punch output this high, the CPU will just let them fly and you can't possibly block them all. Getting backed into the ropes will result in getting knocked down 9 times out of 10.
  
  
• Don't be afraid to go to the body. With the CPU throwing more punches, body punching has a much greater cumulative effect - you can actually wear the CPU down and take him out in the later rounds because he won't have any stamina left.

So with all of that said, here they are:

Difficulty - Champion
RFA - 10
RDA - 10
PWR - 6
SPD - 2
DAM - 10
TGH - 4
ACC - 0
STA - 0
CPW - 0
COA - 0
CDA - 10
OUT - 6

[parker002]

Re: Official Slider Discussion Thread

First fight of amateur tourney in Legacy, I threw 181 punches in 4 rounds, he threw 149. That's the first time I've ever seen anywhere close to parity.

[acts238shaun]

Re: Official Slider Discussion Thread

Hey Parker, I have the perfect fight to test your sliders. I actually used something close in testing and liked them except how the CPU was such a defensive master with tomato can fighters.

I am a middle-turned-light heavyweight owning 1/3 of the alphabet soup. Calzagne is my next fight for the titles and RJJ is the other titleholder. I am a 94 OVR, Super Joe is a 92 and RJJ is a 95 with 100 in everything except cuts and swelling, in which he is LOW. Believing all info important for research, including sliders, here's how me and Joe measure up:

Me--Category--Joe C. (both lefty's)

5' 10" Height 5' 11"
71"--- Reach---73"
96 -----LHP-----96
98 -----RHP-----97
98 ---Hnd Spd-- 97
99 --Pnch Acc-- 98
96 --Foot Spd-- 97
97 --Head Mve.--96
99 ---Blk Str.--- 98
100--Head Tgh--98
98 --Body Tgh-- 96
100 ---Stam--- 97
100 ---Heart--- 93
96 ----Cuts---- 64
91 ---Swelling-- 64
100 ----Chin---- 96

As you can see it's going to be a tough fight...I will give you punch stats, results, round of KO/stoppage, punch stats by round, etc. If it's a pretty KO, me or him, I'll post it as well. By the way, my guy is has an old school stance with speed punching and left hook with as best punch and sig punch being ducking lead hook. I switch to righty at times in the fight.

[parker002]

Re: Official Slider Discussion Thread

Excellent. Thanks.

Just another update. I just won my 2nd pro fight in Legacy with a 6th round KO. My connect percentage was 46% and his 45%. I threw 364 punches to his 363. It was a dead even fight all the way through until I caught him at the end.

[acts238shaun]

Re: Official Slider Discussion Thread

Rnd 1 to Joe C.
Me: 33/74 (44%) Joe 32/60 (53%)
I hit 17/34 jabs, 7/14 counters.
He hit 7/11 jabs, 5/8 counters.

Rnd 2 to Joe C
Me: 24/56 (42%) Joe 37/70 (52%)
I hit 15/33 jabs, 7/14 counters.
He hit 10/20 straights, 6/6 counters.

Round 3 to Bailey (my CAB)
Me: 27/57 (47%) Joe: 31/69 (44%)
I hit 8/16 left hooks, 7/14 counters
He hit 8/20 straights, 4/4 counters

Round 4 to Bailey
Me: 26/68 (42%) Joe: 23/59 (38%)
I hit 9/19 straights, 5/12 counters.
He hit 11/21 straights, 2/4 counters.
I stunned him twice but couldn't get get past his guard enough to floor him.
I had to use points on damage (all 40) to get it down to a sliver.

Round five to Bailey
Me: 33/62 (53%) Joe: 31/72 (43%)
I hit 16/33 jabs, 9/14 counters.
He hit 9/19 straights, 4/7 counters.
I used 20 points on damage, erasing the red line.

Round 6 to Joe (close)
Me: 26/57 (45%) Joe: 28/60 (46%)
I hit 10/16 jabs, 7/13 counters.
He hit 9/22 straights, 2/3 counters.
I used 20 points on health.
Totals after 6 rounds:
Me: 172/374 (45%) Joe: 182/390 (46%)

Round 7 to Joe C.
Me: 12/34 (38%) Joe : 31/75 (41%)
I hit 11/22 straights, 4/11 counters.
He hit 11/14 jabs, 1/2 counters.
I used 12 points on stamina.
Fighters about done on stamina and health. Cut/swelling rating beginning to show.

Round 8 to Joe (close)
Me: 14/32 (43%) Joe: 23/65 (35%)
I hit 10/23 straights, 5/14 counters.
He hit 7/21 straights, 1/2 counters.
We are both exhausted and punching like it.

Round 9 fight was stopped - TKO Bailey, losing on all cards.
Joe C's eye was swollen shut.

Scorecard
Judge 1: 74-77
Judge 2: 73-78
Judge 3: 74-77

I knew I was losing, but not that badly. Final punch stats:

Me: 211/462 (45%) Joe C. 243/557 (43%)
I hit 75/149 jabs (50%) and 55/113 counters.
He hit 81/173 straights (46%) and 25/39 counters.

My only reccomendation is to lower defensive AI a little or raise power a hair due to the defense getting away with getting stunned by psychic blocking. Most of his counters were off my jab, which is what ended up swelling his eye.

Besides that, it was a great fight. You sliders are near perfect Parker. I'd raise stamina a hair, maybe 2-4? I'll test a variation and see how it plays vs. a bum. Good job Parker...best sim fight vs CPU I've had in some time.

[acts238shaun]

Re: Official Slider Discussion Thread

I fought a guy rated 80 and he countered several of my jabs with his 80 hand speed. The connect rates were both sub 50%, but I still feel the power could be a tad higher, the DEF AI lower or both. I knocked him down five times over two rounds for a KO.

I'm about to fight RJJ to unify all three belts, I'll try that fight with power at seven, output at five and DEF AI at seven to see what happens. I may also raise the speed to three to see how the timed block/counters work for the CPU.

[parker002]

Re: Official Slider Discussion Thread

Good info. Keep it coming.

[acts238shaun]

Re: Official Slider Discussion Thread

Here's a vid of the above mentioned variation vs. RJJ, but speed is on two. Punches thrown by the time of this knockdown (rnd 5): 280 for me, 366 for him.

I'd been knocked down twice, once because I screwed around to see how he'd act if I only jabbed.

<img style="visibility:hidden;width:0px;height:0px;" border=0 width=0 height=0 src="http://counters.gigya.com/wildfire/IMP/CXNID=2000002.0NXC/bT*xJmx*PTEyNTI2MTIzODkwNDImcHQ9MTI1MjYxMjM5Mzg3OC ZwPTk1MDcxJmQ9Jmc9MSZvPWY*ZGYzMzMyNTQ4OTQwNjA5YzA1 YjExMjRkZTA4MDMzJm9mPTA=.gif" /><object width="640" height="360"><param name="wmode" value="transparent" valuetype="data" /><param name="movie" value="http://cdn.www.easports.com/static/110.2.2/flash/mdMediaPlugin/mediaplayer.swf?file=http://cdn.content.easports.com/media2/fn4/8924458/972A0001_5_FLV_VIDEO_LgE.flv&link=http://www.easports.com/media/play/video/9101316&linkfromdisplay=true&linktarget=_top&image =" valuetype="data" /><embed src="http://cdn.www.easports.com/static/110.2.2/flash/mdMediaPlugin/mediaplayer.swf" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="640" height="360" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" flashvars="height=360&width=640&file=http://cdn.content.easports.com/media2/fn4/8924458/972A0001_5_FLV_VIDEO_LgE.flv&link=http://www.easports.com/media/play/video/9101316&linkfromdisplay=true&linktarget=_top&image ="></embed></object><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px;"><a href="http://www.easports.com/" target="_top" shape="rect">EA Sports</a>: <a href="http://www.easports.com/media/play/video/9101316" target="_top" shape="rect">RJJ jacked up</a></div>

[acts238shaun]

Re: Official Slider Discussion Thread

RJJ averaged 90 punches a round the first four rounds. In round five and 6 he was knocked down three times total, not getting up the third time. I hit at 54%, he hit at a 50% clip. We were both 95 overall fighters (maxed out), so that could be it. I am going to fight again with output at four. I had damage at seven for that fight. I noticed something, power slider affects swelling and damage cuts. I think, I don't know.

My next fight is against Jermain Taylor, who's an 88 overall with an average of 92 on his ratings. His chin is 88 (against my 97 and 99 power) and his swelling/cuts abominable.

[parker002]

Re: Official Slider Discussion Thread

RJJ averaged 90 punches a round the first four rounds. In round five and 6 he was knocked down three times total, not getting up the third time. I hit at 54%, he hit at a 50% clip. We were both 95 overall fighters (maxed out), so that could be it. I am going to fight again with output at four. I had damage at seven for that fight. I noticed something, power slider affects swelling and damage cuts. I think, I don't know.

My next fight is against Jermain Taylor, who's an 88 overall with an average of 92 on his ratings. His chin is 88 (against my 97 and 99 power) and his swelling/cuts abominable.

Just remember punch numbers aren't going to be realistic. The point is to "level the playing field" so to speak so that the OUTCOMES of fights are more accurate, even if the individual rounds aren't. If you keep lowering CPU output, you're going to be outpunching him at a pretty good clip so even with your slightly higher connect %, you're going to be knocking him out earlier and earlier (or winning every fight by landslide decision).

I'm don't anticipate changing the power or output. They're giving me a good mix of results right now - early Legacy isn't HARD, but it also isn't stupid easy either. As I fight guys with better ratings, things might change, but I doubt it. I fought a couple dozen Fight Now fights with these and like what I got. Other than damage of course, so if you have a breakthrough there, let me know.

By the way, my Legacy thread is finally updated.