The strongest punishment to side sway spam

[ZHunter1990]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

As Zombie said inside and outside fighting are both pretty damn strong.

You essentially have to better at abusing the respective mechanics of what your trying to do and abuse it more often than the other guy.

It's easy to force someone into the pocket playing the 50/50 game due to the the way head movement works.

Large risk large reward and easy to impose.

However, back dashes are completely broken and I don't think the majority of the community has caught onto it yet. So yes, outside fighting, making your opponent whiff and gas whilenfighting on your backfoot is certainly possible.

I have a bigger issue with this because
It has VERY LOW risk, VERY high reward, and is easy to impose.

Backdashing costs about as much stamina as an on block jab does, but making someone whiff off a backdash KILLS stamina. You can literally spam them back to back after waiting to see your opponent twitch to fish for counters and kill their stamina.

Both take very little skill to use, one is risky, the other is not.

[johnmangala]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

What can be done to make back dashes not op but still allow outside fighting not be on par with inside fighting?

I can think of back dashes having an increased stamina tax or decreasing the stamina penalty on whiffed strikes for lunges and head movement a bit.

Are back dashes vulnerable to anything?

[Serengeti1]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

As Zombie said inside and outside fighting are both pretty damn strong.

You essentially have to better at abusing the respective mechanics of what your trying to do and abuse it more often than the other guy.

It's easy to force someone into the pocket playing the 50/50 game due to the the way head movement works.

Large risk large reward and easy to impose.

However, back dashes are completely broken and I don't think the majority of the community has caught onto it yet. So yes, outside fighting, making your opponent whiff and gas whilenfighting on your backfoot is certainly possible.

I have a bigger issue with this because
It has VERY LOW risk, VERY high reward, and is easy to impose.

Backdashing costs about as much stamina as an on block jab does, but making someone whiff off a backdash KILLS stamina. You can literally spam them back to back after waiting to see your opponent twitch to fish for counters and kill their stamina.

Both take very little skill to use, one is risky, the other is not.

I've said for a while that the backdash drains too much stamina. I get that.

But that doesn't mean elements of how inside fighting interacts with outside fighting aren't broken. You can hold block and just stick to someone and force them into throwing uppers/hooks. The way to deal with it is either to do it back or back dashing to make the opponent lose stamina. I'd hardly call that outside fighting though. We can all agree that's not how the game should be playing at a high level. It's not what the meta should be. The meta should, ideally, be the closest representation of high level MMA possible.

I just wish movement/distance management/footwork had far more importance/emphasis than it currently does.

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

After testing this out, back dashes are 100% another exploit. So great, we have it going in both directions now. But, I still won't concede that ranked is a back dash fest. Yet. I'm sure by the next two days everyone will have caught on leading to a total breakdown in the meta. I'm hoping a tuner can be released before then.

[ZHunter1990]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

What can be done to make back dashes not op but still allow outside fighting not be on par with inside fighting?

I can think of back dashes having an increased stamina tax or decreasing the stamina penalty on whiffed strikes for lunges and head movement a bit.

I'd like to see

- The teep not be armoured or nerfed by sways in any direction, so somebody pushing forward with their high block up or swaying would get Sparta kicked backwards.

- Nerf damage on sway counters slightly

- Make the body knee landed on an advancing duck instant death for the guy ducking.

- The inability to walk backwards instantly after a backdash(Your weight is heavily on your rear leg after back dashing) We often see fighters stumble trying to do this.

- Slightly Faster block breakdown on an opponent moving forward.

- The inability to block after a backdash

- Whiffing strikes on backdash should organically drain stamina, no added tax for the evasion like it is currently.

- A large stamina tax for back to back backdashes

[SMOKEZERO]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

Zhunter and Zombie, excellent posts. Thanks for dropping in. We don’t need anymore stamina taxes imo. I think an increase to fighter movement will help solve a lot of these problems actually.


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[aholbert32]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

I'd like to see

- The teep not be armoured or nerfed by sways in any direction, so somebody pushing forward with their high block up or swaying would get Sparta kicked backwards.

- Nerf damage on sway counters slightly

- Make the body knee landed on an advancing duck instant death for the guy ducking.

- The inability to walk backwards instantly after a backdash(Your weight is heavily on your rear leg after back dashing) We often see fighters stumble trying to do this.

- The inability to block after a backdash

- Whiffing strikes on backdash should organically drain stamina, no added tax for the evasion like it is currently.

- A large stamina tax for back to back backdashes

I'm down with all of them except that because thats not really rooted in realism. Nothing should prevent me from blocking just because I hop back/

[SMOKEZERO]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

After testing this out, back dashes are 100% another exploit. So great, we have it going in both directions now. But, I still won't concede that ranked is a back dash fest. Yet. I'm sure by the next two days everyone will have caught on leading to a total breakdown in the meta. I'm hoping a tuner can be released before then.

This is pretty much how I destroy people with 84 standup Johny Hendricks. Ranked play doesn’t mean people understand what is going on with all the systems.


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[aholbert32]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

After testing this out, back dashes are 100% another exploit. So great, we have it going in both directions now. But, I still won't concede that ranked is a back dash fest. Yet. I'm sure by the next two days everyone will have caught on leading to a total breakdown in the meta. I'm hoping a tuner can be released before then.

Credit to the GCs (not me but everybody else)that people already identified this issue and GPD is looking into it.

[johnmangala]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

I'd like to see

- The teep not be armoured or nerfed by sways in any direction, so somebody pushing forward with their high block up or swaying would get Sparta kicked backwards.

- Nerf damage on sway counters slightly

- Make the body knee landed on an advancing duck instant death for the guy ducking.

- The inability to walk backwards instantly after a backdash(Your weight is heavily on your rear leg after back dashing) We often see fighters stumble trying to do this.

- Slightly Faster block breakdown on an opponent moving forward.

- The inability to block after a backdash

- Whiffing strikes on backdash should organically drain stamina, no added tax for the evasion like it is currently.

- A large stamina tax for back to back backdashes

This appreciated, good list.

Also Hunter has to be one of the rarer GC sightings from my experience, it is sad too considering I remember his suggestions from the old grappling thread were pretty good like this. We could use more input from you, it is helpful. But is fair probably with more behind the scenes work.


I would like to add losing the delay on chaining lunges with striking/grappling but I feel that will be addressed.. but with the concerns of the back dash: maybe an increase in vulnerability.

But I don’t know what back dashes are vulnerable to if anything. So an increased penalty seems like the only feasible route.

[SMOKEZERO]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

I'd like to see

- The teep not be armoured or nerfed by sways in any direction, so somebody pushing forward with their high block up or swaying would get Sparta kicked backwards.

- Nerf damage on sway counters slightly

- Make the body knee landed on an advancing duck instant death for the guy ducking.

- The inability to walk backwards instantly after a backdash(Your weight is heavily on your rear leg after back dashing) We often see fighters stumble trying to do this.

- Slightly Faster block breakdown on an opponent moving forward.

- The inability to block after a backdash

- Whiffing strikes on backdash should organically drain stamina, no added tax for the evasion like it is currently.

- A large stamina tax for back to back backdashes

“Make the body knee landed on an advancing duck instant death for the guy ducking.”

This is simply not true in MMA, and rarely do we actually see this. On shots ok, but go watch Lombard vs Hendricks. Hector ate no less than 9 ducking knees from Johny. Also knees are not across the board on the movesets.




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[Kenetic NRG]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

After testing this out, back dashes are 100% another exploit. So great, we have it going in both directions now. But, I still won't concede that ranked is a back dash fest. Yet. I'm sure by the next two days everyone will have caught on leading to a total breakdown in the meta. I'm hoping a tuner can be released before then.

That breakdown is already upon us on Xbox. Probably the worst meta I can recall from the past 2 games.

[Serengeti1]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

That breakdown is already upon us on Xbox. Probably the worst meta I can recall from the past 2 games.

Retracted is actually on Xbox.

Again tho... I agree that back dashes drain stamina too easily. I just think fighting at distance and managing distance was done way better in UFC 2 than it is in this game. A big part of the problem is moving at the same speed while blocking every shot coming at your head. Irl... You just cannot do that.

[johnmangala]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

“Make the body knee landed on an advancing duck instant death for the guy ducking.”

This is simply not true in MMA, and rarely do we actually see this. On shots ok, but go watch Lombard vs Hendricks. Hector ate no less than 9 ducking knees from Johny. Also knees are not across the board on the movesets.




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Bonus:

[SMOKEZERO]

Re: The strongest punishment to side sway spam

Credit to the GCs (not me but everybody else)that people already identified this issue and GPD is looking into it.

Oh, so sways are no longer OP, but backdash is? So we’re going to force the 50/50 and make the lower tier trash even more so? Whatever


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