Does madden want a realistic game?

[ggsimmonds]

Quote: Originally Posted by khaliib

Here’s a question I have? In terms of the ideology of “realistic”, how do they program the game to fulfill this role against such a broad subjective perception while fulfilling the challenge aspect with the terms “Phsych and Robo” quickly being the first words to be uttered? To me instead of using the term “Realistic” which truly is subjective depending on your experience with the sport of football, we should be talking and approaching the game build from the ideology of “Replication”. Replication limits subjectivity and the mundane arguments that lead down a rabbit hole of nowhere and provides aspects that are tangible to build from. - this guy should have a SPD rating of at least 96 vs he runs a 4.3 - this guy has a 93 CTH rating and shouldn’t be dropping balls vs he catches the ball with his body etc, etc, etc.... I truly believe we’ve arrived to point we are at because EA has been trying to do the “Realistic” thing that’s so subjective and have gotten away from the concept of simply “Replicating”. What is Realistic is so fleeting from one moment to the next, gimmicks and fantasy mechanisms are settled on to try and cover such a broad spectrum of gamer perceptions. I can guarantee my brand of Realistic probably wouldn’t be an enjoyable experience for a lot of gamers and the same could be said with the role reversed. We’ve experienced years of Madden built as a Realistic version, but we’ve yet to experience a Madden game built as a Replication. I’m tired and bored of continuing to try and obtain this Realistic thing year after year, and now on another console generation. Let’s try Replication for once and at least see what the game experience would be like!!!

This would be one of the few times I disagree with you Khaliib.

I think the distinction is largely semantics that could leave some people scratching their heads in confusion. I may be one of them because in this case I'm not sure what the difference would be.

I know in movies and television I make a distinction between accuracy and authenticity. I'm thinking of historical period dramas where events did not happen just as the show portrayed them, yet it is authentic in its portrayal.

But unless I'm missing something the change you advocate for to me seems more like a shift in marketing moreso than a change in development philosophy.

[JayCutlersCig]

One thing I enjoyed from Madden 06 was the vision cone. Some liked it, some didn’t, but I felt like the cone brought more “personality” to the QB vs. DB battle. I remember having to look off safeties, then toggle back to my primary like a madman. Fun stuff.

I think Madden needs realistic personality to their players. It’s one on a long list of many improvements, but I think we would see better gameplay, factor in a better physics engine and we could see the *best* gameplay possible.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[ggsimmonds]

Quote: Originally Posted by JayCutlersCig

One thing I enjoyed from Madden 06 was the vision cone. Some liked it, some didn’t, but I felt like the cone brought more “personality” to the QB vs. DB battle. I remember having to look off safeties, then toggle back to my primary like a madman. Fun stuff. I think Madden needs realistic personality to their players. It’s one on a long list of many improvements, but I think we would see better gameplay, factor in a better physics engine and we could see the *best* gameplay possible. Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

I absolutely loved the vision cone.

Without it I could make Kyle Boller the league mvp. With it I could only take him to the pro bowl.

But the vision cone and this year's target passing reveals one unfortunate truth about the Madden gamerbase (elite competitive crowd included) -- the skill level is not that high.

It really paints the competitive crowd in a bad light. Rex stated that the goal was that the feature would provide separation in the tourney crowd, but nope. No one used it to elevate their game; it is still all about who can find the best combination of exploitative plays and repeat those over and over again (the so called shotgun bunch "offense")

[khaliib]

Quote: Originally Posted by ggsimmonds

This would be one of the few times I disagree with you Khaliib. I think the distinction is largely semantics that could leave some people scratching their heads in confusion. I may be one of them because in this case I'm not sure what the difference would be. I know in movies and television I make a distinction between accuracy and authenticity. I'm thinking of historical period dramas where events did not happen just as the show portrayed them, yet it is authentic in its portrayal. But unless I'm missing something the change you advocate for to me seems more like a shift in marketing moreso than a change in development philosophy.

I’ll put it this way, Sim folk think that the term Realism only pertains to their perspective of what Madden should provide, when a 15 yr old youngster who’s a MUT player expalined to me how MUT gives him the most “Realistic” experience to what it’s like when he and his friends play in the park.

He didn’t say the NFL, but Realistic to how they play at the park.
I’ve at least got some experience from some NFL team FA invites, CFL/Arena Combines etc..., so naturally this is the lens from which I view Realistic from.

So who’s perspective of Realistic is correct?

It’s not simantics beacuse it speaks to this exact issue that Madden has trying to meet/fulfill both our ideology of a Realistic experience.
- what did they do, 3 different Play Styles
- Comp is splintered on what is realistic and should happen in this scenario
- MUT is splintered on what is realistic and should happen with this card
- Sim is splintered on what is Realistic and should happen

Again, not simantics, but M18 being a culmination of this pursuit by EA to try and meet everyone’s perspective of Realistic.
- On this forum alone, there’s no consensus on what Realistic is

The one commonality that all other sports games in the sports genre have in common is that you can see that the focus of their build is to Replicate the sport above all things.

Just seems logical to try what they’re doing because the advancement of those games shows that there’s something to Replication.

Just my $.02

[Nunyerbiz]

From my perspective realism always takes a backseat to gameplay. This is especially true in Madden... where we still have goofy animations firing at the wrong time and a CPU that doesn't know when to use a time out. A more realistic experience will be a natural side effect of eliminating things that clearly fail the smell test. Those things should be the priority. They are things that will help *everybody* whether you prefer to roll out 40 times a game with Cam Newton and throw 40 yard dots on the run or if you intentionally run into LBs because you're worried that your YPC numbers aren't sim enough.

[Nunyerbiz]

Quote: Originally Posted by ggsimmonds

I absolutely loved the vision cone. Without it I could make Kyle Boller the league mvp. With it I could only take him to the pro bowl. But the vision cone and this year's target passing reveals one unfortunate truth about the Madden gamerbase (elite competitive crowd included) -- the skill level is not that high. It really paints the competitive crowd in a bad light. Rex stated that the goal was that the feature would provide separation in the tourney crowd, but nope. No one used it to elevate their game; it is still all about who can find the best combination of exploitative plays and repeat those over and over again (the so called shotgun bunch "offense")

Nobody used it to elevate their game because it didn't offer elevation. Once something becomes competitive, particularly when money is involved, your only concern is giving yourself the best baseline chances to win... with your individual skill being the separating factor. If vision cone mechanics were actually worth a damn, they would have been used... somebody would be wiping the floor with the competition and everybody else would either learn it or get left behind. The fact that this didn't happen is an indictment of the mechanic and not the player base.

Now I've said before that Madden isn't nearly ready for prime time e-sports... but that's more to outright glitches and drawn out dice roll animations then it is exploiting the AI. I don't necessarily think Madden tourney players are the most skilled, a part of it is simply deciding that you have large amounts of time to dive in and play all the time. That said, every good Madden player is slamming those pre snap adjustments on every play. There is a decent amount of chess playing and gamesmanship going on... even if it is within the glitchy, loosey-goosey confines of the Madden framework... and even if it's only using a handful of formations.

Can this be improved upon to make it more like the real game? Of course, but the adjustments that real human teams / coaches can make on a week-to-week basis is always going to outpace what the developers can do with the AI code. The video game will always be a step or two or two thousand behind the actual game.... and during that lag time the competitive players are only going to use what gives them the highest chances for success.

[jfsolo]

Keep improving the AI, reduce warping to a minimal level, and exponentially increase transition animations, all things that the series has obviously struggled with, and IMO the game can then be tuned for each style to get an experience that they enjoy

[SageInfinite]

Until Madden can pass the eye test, I can't be convinced that they want a realistic game.