Article on EA financials leaves little doubt what Madden 19 focus will be

[Madwolf]

The problem with MUT is that it's just trading cards attatched to a video game in 2018. MUT may make money, but the rest of the peices make the game.

Trusting shareholders to push Madden in the right development direction is like asking a group of accountants which space ship to shove the astronauts in. Not only do they have no idea how any of it works, but you can count on them to do the most profitable choice, meaning we save $100,000 on the ledger, and on launch day the rocket explodes.

These guys are pushing MUT because they see the $$$ signs. Which is great, considering that MUT is already a service thst demands either paying or investing huge amounts of time grinding through the game.

There is no interest in making what's on the field vasty better because it could make MUT players feel hesitant about spending money while they get a feel for the improvements and look for the new cheese.

All other modes would be considered a waste of sharehoulder investment, because they don't see a potential return on investment there. They see a sales prediction model that shows all of us not playing MUT are already locked for a purchase of the base game, and will not be swayed much by what happens with on the field and other game modes.

They have not factored in us being human beings that will not punch the buy button when we get handed 18 with 19 on it, and "Revamped MUT," even if we don't play it. That's not part of their sales model.

I almost didn't buy Madden this year when they released it 4 days later than the GOAT edition or whatever. If 19 isn't showing me anythingI might bow out for the first time in almost 15 years.

The lack of any info to me strongly suggests that the communications with the MUT guys is all they think they need, and don't even realize they don't speak to the rest of us.

[ForUntoOblivionSoar∞]

Quote: Originally Posted by scitychamps87

As someone who is generally frustrated by all the resources poured into MUT (I've tried it and never gotten massively into it. I'm about as much of a franchise simulation purist vs the CPU you will ever find)...I think this is probably the most fair explanation I've seen about why MUT, especially capped MUT, is intriguing to their base of players. I didn't realize how much of a draw simply having control over who is on your head to head team is in making the mode attractive, rather than just the card building itself. But, that logic in mind, wouldn't a good compromise in joining the communities be to create some sort of leaderboard points system for success in a franchise and have it synced online based on difficulty multipliers (based on team used, difficulty levels, years into franchise mode, games played, drafted talent vs acquired talent, etc.) and then also allow you to take the franchise team you built into head to head mode online to compete up your leaderboard? It combines the logic of MUT, while allowing franchise to gain some resource investment. I'm trying to think of how EA would try to get this new type of mish-mash mode into a profitable idea though. If anyone can think of that, let me know. Maybe microtransactions for advanced scouting reports on draft prospects or opponents in franchise mode? I'd be willing to deal with having that optional functionality built into the mode to bring in the MUT base if it meant Franchise Mode would get the investments the die-hard sim guys crave. Sent from my XT1650 using Operation Sports mobile app

I think this completely misses the point of why die-hard sim anti-MUT people don't like MUT. We don't like MUT because we are NFL FANS more so than FOOTBALL VIDEO GAME fans. MUT can NEVER capture the NFL, by its very design.

We want an NFL simulation. Will MUT, with its fantasy teams, every do that? NOPE. Not at all. It's not about "control" or team building, or any of that for us. It's the NFL. Plane pure and simple.


The die-hard sim guys crave the NFL. MUT will only ever provide NFL team colors and logos, not the NFL.

[stinkubus]

This is really the least "cheesy" Madden I've ever played, and online H2H is as fun as it's ever been. Zones are good enough that with a bit of knowledge of both the game and your opponent's tendencies it's very hard to get beaten deep unless you take a risk that doesn't pay off. Route combos more or less work as they should. Blitzes and blitz picks ups are balanced very nicely.

There's no such thing as a one play or even a one formation offense anymore. Red zone passing is so radically different from when you are driving down the field

I haven't played MUT before, but I will be from launch once 19 drops. I guess my one gripe about this mode is that the level of play in H2H

[4thQtrStre5S]

Quote: Originally Posted by ForUntoOblivionSoar∞

CD Projekt Red is there to make money. That didn't stop them from making a masterpiece, despite having people leave when they were told the standard they were going for was too high for their own tastes. Read this response to Glassdoor comments of people who left: SOME managers and brass in charge of studios/developers are willing to put in the hard work and effort to make a great game (and force their employees to as well). SOME, who are ALSO there to make money, do not mind tearing down something and rebuilding it to make it better. That angered some employees who left, so much so that they posted badly on glass door. And you know what? The Witcher 3 is an absolute MASTERPIECE. So GOOD JOB CD Projekt Red on not taking the easy way out. Bottom line: making money and striving to make a quality game that isn't just about money is not a mutually exclusive proposition.

Re-inventing the wheel is not a necessity, and to do so for the sake of doing it, is just wasteful. I cannot really comment on Witcher 3 because I do not like that series. I am a World of Warcraft fan. In other open world games I prefer the true sandbox games like those produced by Rock Star.

With that, I believe Witcher 3 saw a profit, after all work, of about $35 million US dollars. They gained a positive reputation going forward, which is a bonus. Moving forward though, they cannot rely on sinking that much into a game, over such a long period of time. Unless they have other sources of revenue. Inventing the wheel is excellent, but only when the risks can be reduced or there are few alternate options. I do not know anything about the next Wither but will they sink as much into that project? Are they taking the Rock Star road?

We do have to remember, Madden is a football game which is on a much tighter schedule. They do not have the luxury of taking 5 years to create the next installment like a Rock Star can.. It has been how long since Red Dead Redemption 1? and GTA V has been out 5 years. But they live off micro-transactions in GTA V also.

I do agree with your conclusion. Quality and revenue are not exclusive.

[Big FN Deal]

The resource concerns of MUT over CFM is besides the point, imo, because even if they put all resources behind CFM, it would still be more of the same. Aside from M12, Madden Franchise mode has been severely NFL football lacking since PS2/Xbox era and even M12 Franchise mode was salvageable at best. It's my understanding that EA put tons of resources behind CCM/CFM back in M13 and you see what that produced, same with Longshot.

So for me advocating for EA to put more resources into Franchise mode doesn't address the core issue, which is wanting EA to have a mission statement and practice of emulating NFL football in Madden. Call me crazy but I enjoy as much NFL football as possible in a NFL football video game, lol.

[ForUntoOblivionSoar∞]

Quote: Originally Posted by 4thQtrStre5S

Re-inventing the wheel is not a necessity, and to do so for the sake of doing it, is just wasteful. I cannot really comment on Witcher 3 because I do not like that series. I am a World of Warcraft fan. In other open world games I prefer the true sandbox games like those produced by Rock Star. With that, I believe Witcher 3 saw a profit, after all work, of about $35 million US dollars. They gained a positive reputation going forward, which is a bonus. Moving forward though, they cannot rely on sinking that much into a game, over such a long period of time. Unless they have other sources of revenue. Inventing the wheel is excellent, but only when the risks can be reduced or there are few alternate options. I do not know anything about the next Wither but will they sink as much into that project? Are they taking the Rock Star road? We do have to remember, Madden is a football game which is on a much tighter schedule. They do not have the luxury of taking 5 years to create the next installment like a Rock Star can.. It has been how long since Red Dead Redemption 1? and GTA V has been out 5 years. But they live off micro-transactions in GTA V also. I do agree with your conclusion. Quality and revenue are not exclusive.

They didn't re-invent the wheel. They tore down a crappy wheel and made a better one.


Let me tell you a story that is close to home for me and relevant to this topic. My brother is writing code for a game right now. He had a great design that simulated physics, but in some cases kind of cheated to make it look like it was physics based. It was very hard to tell, but if you watched the game all day testing you'd know when the cheating was happening. The boss made him tear it down and do it better, where there was less "cheating" and slight of hand (a Madden analogy would be scripted animations instead of true momentum based actions). My brother was angry, told me the boss was an idiot who didn't understand that "cheating" is what you do, but he began working on it, as he was instructed. It's about back up to the same level, but now it looks smoother.

In the meantime, his boss was busy working out a motion capture contract with a company that did work on a very successful movie. So the boss is spending the money (it's gonna cost some $30,000 just for a day, and that's only if they all go to THEIR studio, if I recall what my brother told me), and he is taking quality very seriously. He demanded that my brother make what was already good and make it great (which he is currently working on).


The point? The point I'm trying to make with CDPRojekt Red? You can be a "suit" working in the industry and demand quality as much for quality's sake as for money's sake.




You are right, though. Having the resources matters. My brother's boss made a ton of money on, I think it was, a mobile game several years ago, and then made wise investments, so he is loaded. So yeah, he has the resources to sink a couple hundred grand on an Indy game. But how much money does EA Sports have? Do you see why I'm ticked off at them?

My brother so far, who hasn't even graduated college, is the main coder on a game that a moderately wealthy guy worth a few million dollars (not sure his net worth; but he isn't EA Sports rich) who's willing to sink money into a project that might fail. One made coder. So far there is a team of about 5 or 6 people, working across the world and communicating through skype and facetime. So this is an INDY project, and the boss is putting HIS OWN MONEY at risk.

So if THAT guy can do it, and yet still demand quality and not cutting corners, despite personal risk, why can't a billion dollar company?



That's why I'm going to be FURIOUS if EA decides to abandon the goal of eventually reaching an NFL simulation in favor of stupid micro transactions and catering to casual video game players who know nothing of football. THEY HAVE THE MONEY TO DO BOTH.

So, if the implication of the OP is true, I'm going to be furious, and rightly so, because I personally know someone who's own boss is risking hundreds of thousands of dollars on an Indy game, yet still demands that no corners are cut so that the target demographic gets the high quality game they crave. And, of course, so he'll make a bunch of money. But why should both be mutually exclusive?

[Big FN Deal]

@ForUntoOblivionSoar∞, I enjoyed the anecdote and feel that I get what you're saying for the most part but what gives you hope that:

"....abandon the goal of eventually reaching an NFL simulation in favor of stupid micro transactions and catering to casual video game players who know nothing of football."

isn't already the case and been so for the last 14 years at least?

[4thQtrStre5S]

Quote: Originally Posted by ForUntoOblivionSoar∞

They didn't re-invent the wheel. They tore down a crappy wheel and made a better one. Let me tell you a story that is close to home for me and relevant to this topic. My brother is writing code for a game right now. He had a great design that simulated physics, but in some cases kind of cheated to make it look like it was physics based. It was very hard to tell, but if you watched the game all day testing you'd know when the cheating was happening. The boss made him tear it down and do it better, where there was less "cheating" and slight of hand (a Madden analogy would be scripted animations instead of true momentum based actions). My brother was angry, told me the boss was an idiot who didn't understand that "cheating" is what you do, but he began working on it, as he was instructed. It's about back up to the same level, but now it looks smoother. In the meantime, his boss was busy working out a motion capture contract with a company that did work on a very successful movie. So the boss is spending the money (it's gonna cost some $30,000 just for a day, and that's only if they all go to THEIR studio, if I recall what my brother told me), and he is taking quality very seriously. He demanded that my brother make what was already good and make it great (which he is currently working on). The point? The point I'm trying to make with CDPRojekt Red? You can be a "suit" working in the industry and demand quality as much for quality's sake as for money's sake. You are right, though. Having the resources matters. My brother's boss made a ton of money on, I think it was, a mobile game several years ago, and then made wise investments, so he is loaded. So yeah, he has the resources to sink a couple hundred grand on an Indy game. But how much money does EA Sports have? Do you see why I'm ticked off at them? My brother so far, who hasn't even graduated college, is the main coder on a game that a moderately wealthy guy worth a few million dollars (not sure his net worth; but he isn't EA Sports rich) who's willing to sink money into a project that might fail. One made coder. So far there is a team of about 5 or 6 people, working across the world and communicating through skype and facetime. So this is an INDY project, and the boss is putting HIS OWN MONEY at risk. So if THAT guy can do it, and yet still demand quality and not cutting corners, despite personal risk, why can't a billion dollar company? That's why I'm going to be FURIOUS if EA decides to abandon the goal of eventually reaching an NFL simulation in favor of stupid micro transactions and catering to casual video game players who know nothing of football. THEY HAVE THE MONEY TO DO BOTH. So, if the implication of the OP is true, I'm going to be furious, and rightly so, because I personally know someone who's own boss is risking hundreds of thousands of dollars on an Indy game, yet still demands that no corners are cut so that the target demographic gets the high quality game they crave. And, of course, so he'll make a bunch of money. But why should both be mutually exclusive?

I agree about quality. Risk though, is another issue. Risking one's own money is one thing; risking other people's money is another.

The hardest games to make are those that attempt to mimic real life. This opens up a whole other can of worms. As we see in Madden. First person shooters also suffer from this problem when they attempt to mimic real life events like World War 2 and their guns. Franchise, I agree can be improved and should be improved.

Quality and revenue generation are definitely not exclusives. But quality, or value of something is relative, in many cases. EA/Tib could put millions into Franchise and people could still not be satisfied. Therefore there needs to be balance and focus on key components and features. Marketing does require a highlight. I wouldn't be surprised if Longshot expanded into CFM in some manner. Longshot already provided some MUT rewards in M18 and most likely will do so this year.

I am willing to bet that the EA Devs have scrapped many ideas for a better product. I am also confident with the deals between EA Sports, Disney and ESPN that we will see game play improvements which will allow for a better looking game for players and viewings. It would be completely irresponsible not to address animation issues and logic when EA is working with the likes of Disney and ESPN. Quality must be maintained.

I bet there will be some happiness in the Franchise community as the new M19 is revealed.

Being driven by revenue includes the drive for quality..A lack of quality can hurt revenue..They work together...Whether an individual likes the "quality" is another issue. The company can only truly go by the consensus of the masses for most of their decisions. After the approval of the masses they can address the smaller details.