Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on release

[jclazaris84]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

I mean, it goes back to my post about not making the topic more complicated than it is.

We'll have different opinions on things like movement...but IMO, all that stuff was improved on. It was noted by many weeks into the game. Me bring upset about help defense now doesn't change any of that...but we can absolutely call out 2K for what changes have transpired (particularly on the defensive side) since then and not sticking to their vision.

I just don't have a flair for the dramatic. All the conspiracy and everything was a lie stuff just doesn't do it for me. It's as black and white as help defense needing to be fixed for me. I get the frustration though.



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$60+ of frustration for most people, man. a lot of folks feel duped and robbed. sim players have been getting the short end of the stick for awhile now, and i'm sure this move from 2k was the nail in the coffin for some.

your best bet at this point is to buy 2k one year behind releases. that way, you know what you're getting and can be ensured of no changes. plus, you'll only be spending twenty bucks on a sale.

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

I just went HOF stock sliders after this update. Literally layin after Layin. They can’t stop the drive or roll. It just reverted to exactly how it was pre this last patch. I mean I’m trying with this game every day. I obviously Haven't shelved it yet. But it’s unplayable like this. They have to fix it somehow. Not fixing it or ignoring it will only get worse over time. At least acknowledge it. What’s the issues here? Why is it happening? Are they trying to fix it? I thought for sure the last patch would fix it or they would go back to band aid fix which they did (for 2 days) lol

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

If people spend $80-$100 (CAD) on improvements from blogs they’ve read with their own eyes, just to see the game revert to a state that’s unenjoyable or unrecognizable to them, they’re going to be dramatic. Some more reasonably than others.



I don’t blame them with the amount of constant changes.

People spend double/triple that on multiple builds based on certain gameplay elements just to have it change. While I may not agree it changes minute to minute like some, I definitely acknowledge that it happens in these patches.

before finding out it was a glitch, the idea that 2K would remove badges from builds ticked me off and it didn't even effect me. (Fun or "2k ties" aside) Being upset about those things isn't being dramatic....just the the place the discourse around it goes to. I just think it's fruitless.

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[The 24th Letter]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

24, I promise you I am not trying to be dramatic. What the blog says and what we have right now is not even close. I literally just played after this update and it was awful. Very frustrating. It’s almost unplayable for me right now because of it. I’m strictly 5 on 5 Vs cpu and it’s not even fun because they can’t guard or play the pnr. I truly don’t want to shelve this game (especially after all the editing I did with playbooks), but if they don’t address it soon or this year Idk. Just a bad taste and look for me…



I think I’m going to twitch a livestream later today to show what I’m talking about and replay each pnr.

Don't think you're being dramatic at all. Came off wrong, sorry. It's kind of frustrating to see people talk sideways about the one person who still cares about the simulation aspect of the game- but I'll leave it alone.

but yes, I wish more people would livestream what they're seeing. Clips at this point don't tell the whole story with everyone's experience.

Seeing these 30+ point quarters point quarters on HOF people are achieving would be a pretty clear cut message.

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[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

Don't think you're being dramatic at all. Came off wrong, sorry. It's kind of frustrating to see people talk sideways about the one person who still cares about the simulation aspect of the game- but I'll leave it alone.

but yes, I wish more people would livestream what they're seeing. Clips at this point don't tell the whole story with everyone's experience.

Seeing these 30+ point quarters point quarters on HOF people are achieving would be a pretty clear cut message.

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Done and done! I’ll live-stream it and post it here. Then they can watch the replay whenever.

[loso_34]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

Lol they buffed on all defence for the my park/my team crowd.

Realistic team defence is still on the back burner.

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

Let me preface this with I don’t play like this. Lol I was just stress testing PNR. This is HOF default for 1 quarter. The funny thing is usually I’m hitting the roll man but in this 1 it was wide open layups with no help. Usually I’m hitting roll or when help does come easy 3’s on kick outs. I could do numerous videos like this that are different results but same premise. This is quick quarter 14 minutes long video… 1st 2 minutes they kind of contained me but after that nothing. This is actually one of the better defensive games too compared to others I’ve had. Lol! 37 points in 1st quarter. Also, usually after a timeout they adjust and help comes but for some reason in this one it never did.

At 6:45 you can see iso on switch and small ball. That I like. But where is help?

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1183819680?tt_medium=mobile_web_share&tt_content=vod

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

We'll have different opinions on things like movement...but IMO, all that stuff was improved on. It was noted by many weeks into the game. Me bring upset about help defense now doesn't change any of that...but we can absolutely call out 2K for what changes have transpired (particularly on the defensive side) since then and not sticking to their vision.

Just to be clear movement is great and I agree with you. I was talking about freedom of movement (which was a rule they applied years ago) and the stonewall defense at launch wasn’t that as it didn’t allow any freedom of movement. That being said today we have freedom of movement but it now shows us the flaws of help defense and bigs not containing the pnr. That was also in the blog. But as far as plays and motion and responsiveness goes I love all of that with movement this year! That’s been a complaint of mine over the years with slow animations, stuck in mud on explosions. Wang killed the dribbling this year best it’s ever been! And off ball motion tech is also awesome. But there isn’t balance with help and pnr’s.

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

It's kind of frustrating to see people talk sideways about the one person who still cares about the simulation aspect of the game- but I'll leave it alone.

To be clear here I think every Dev that’s ever worked on the game has cared about it and specifically their area of development. OG was pretty passionate too.

There have been years certain areas of the game don’t match with others. Take the post game as an example. I have hated certain games post game. I love it this year. There have been years I didn’t like dribbling but wang killed it this year and best it’s ever been. I feel like defense is the 1 wart right now holding it back. In years past it was other devs areas that might not have been up to par.

I get the attachment to czar and he’s earned his credit from community for all he’s done and he’s well liked. His track record is well deserved. I’m with you. I know he cares. But that doesn’t mean constructive criticism shouldn’t come his way in his department either. Every year some devs area is complained about. Just because he cares and is a good guy doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be talked about. I mean OG got flamed last few years and what’s the difference?

I think what’s rubbing people the wrong way is the disappearing act for the last 3 weeks though since this went down. This has been an issue for 3 weeks now. Like chase said there is a shelf life for games especially the new games and if that wears off because of no fixes then that’s where it’s frustrating to have a game that we paid for but isn’t enjoyable or playable at the moment but once was. Like I said before I think some more transparency in this specific department would go a long ways.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

To be clear here I think every Dev that’s ever worked on the game has cared about it and specifically their area of development. OG was pretty passionate too.



There have been years certain areas of the game don’t match with others. Take the post game as an example. I have hated certain games post game. I love it this year. There have been years I didn’t like dribbling but wang killed it this year and best it’s ever been. I feel like defense is the 1 wart right now holding it back. In years past it was other devs areas that might not have been up to par.



I get the attachment to czar and he’s earned his credit from community for all he’s done and he’s well liked. His track record is well deserved. I’m with you. I know he cares. But that doesn’t mean constructive criticism shouldn’t come his way in his department either. Every year some devs area is complained about. Just because he cares and is a good guy doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be talked about. I mean OG got flamed last few years and what’s the difference?



I think what’s rubbing people the wrong way is the disappearing act for the last 3 weeks though since this went down. This has been an issue for 3 weeks now. Like chase said there is a shelf life for games especially the new games and if that wears off because of no fixes then that’s where it’s frustrating to have a game that we paid for but isn’t enjoyable or playable at the moment but once was. Like I said before I think some more transparency in this specific department would go a long ways.

It's definitely not about shying away from criticism or any particular attachment to a dev. I'll also say transparency a lot of the time is desired until it's not what we want to hear.

Not gonna speak on that anymore though...Will leave you guys to it. About time for my yearly hiatus anyway, lol

Keep the fight going [emoji1491]

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[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

It's definitely not about shying away from criticism or any particular attachment to a dev. I'll also say transparency a lot of the time is desired until it's not what we want to hear.

Not gonna speak on that anymore though...Will leave you guys to it. About time for my yearly hiatus anyway, lol

Keep the fight going [emoji1491]

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Lol! Oh I agree if I heard can’t fix til next year id be disappointed. Anyways, I’m probably right behind you… probably time for me to pass this fight on to someone else anyways as it’s probably a unwinnable and pointless fight…

[Mikelopedia]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

Seems every few days the status of team defense is taking a 1 step forward, then 2 steps back kind of approach.
In the last couple of days I have been able to use the Help D button (L1) as a bandaid of sorts. Although when icon selecting who you want to help, it commits them blindly to the ball almost like a double team, in PnR situations I was having success using it to essentially manually create a tag the roller with 1 rotation (never 2, which obvs still leaves a wide open 3).
Today however, all the Help D button is doing even in PnR is having the player just run blindly to the ball, sometimes running past the open roller to the already doubled ball handler.

For the life of me I'll never understand why the answer is not improve rotations and Xing out rather than go backwards to make the focus 1 on 1, -if you beat him, you win- approach.
If MyTeam style players want to off ball and take a video game approach, cool. Let the defensive settings allow them to turn Help Off. Thats it. Czar even posted a video showing that that worked. Why isn't that the continued approach?

This game is literal trash right now on the defensive side of the ball from an NBA perspective. Period, there's no sugar coating it. This is not basketball. It's a wonderful MyTeam experience, sprint around a PnR for a dunk, thats great, let them have their settings for that. I wouldn't even be mad if theirs was the default experience and we had to use 100's of sliders to create the experience that we're looking for. But we don't even have that option as so many of the relevant sliders that would seemingly relate to these issues do nothing.
We are stuck with a $70-$100 screen saver or drink coaster.

This is truly unacceptable.

I don't want to hear excuses anymore. The game was acceptable before, the gameplay blog had relevance before, the game was not perfect, but it was closer to an NBA game than it is now. Simply because cutter help was too sensitive to video game tactics. THEN SLOW DOWN PASSING SPEED, SPEED UP DEFENSIVE ROTATIONS OR SIMPLY ALLOW HELP TO BE ON OR OFF. Universally turning off help, or buffing 7 footers on ball is not the answer, and will never be the answer, even for the casual gamer! I know nothing is that simple, but take that direction at least in your attempts to correct the issue over the following weeks.

It's not like taking the big manually and standing out of position was even some new comp tactic as if, omg cheesers found something new we never thought of! There really wasnt anyone at 2k in July who said, hm what happens if I off ball and sag off but stand in the passing lane? Cmon

I apologize for being dramatic on a forum. But I'm really done man, I spend my money every year too. That blog gave me hope, and this result is insulting.

[Dione2014]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

Let me preface this with I don’t play like this. Lol I was just stress testing PNR. This is HOF default for 1 quarter. The funny thing is usually I’m hitting the roll man but in this 1 it was wide open layups with no help. Usually I’m hitting roll or when help does come easy 3’s on kick outs. I could do numerous videos like this that are different results but same premise. This is quick quarter 14 minutes long video… 1st 2 minutes they kind of contained me but after that nothing. This is actually one of the better defensive games too compared to others I’ve had. Lol! 37 points in 1st quarter. Also, usually after a timeout they adjust and help comes but for some reason in this one it never did.

At 6:45 you can see iso on switch and small ball. That I like. But where is help?

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1183819...tt_content=vod

I’m just waiting on one of the major rosters to drop so I can run player lock on my franchise. This is how I’ve been playing since 2K17. This way I won’t win 90 percent of my games and I won’t be able to abuse the PNR.

It’s been pretty fun. This issues are still there of course, but you rarely see them because you’re not always in control of the ball handler and you’re not always the one in a PNR.

Try it out if you haven’t. You can get some pretty good games out of it if you stay within the CPUs offense.


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[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

Seems every few days the status of team defense is taking a 1 step forward, then 2 steps back kind of approach.
In the last couple of days I have been able to use the Help D button (L1) as a bandaid of sorts. Although when icon selecting who you want to help, it commits them blindly to the ball almost like a double team, in PnR situations I was having success using it to essentially manually create a tag the roller with 1 rotation (never 2, which obvs still leaves a wide open 3).
Today however, all the Help D button is doing even in PnR is having the player just run blindly to the ball, sometimes running past the open roller to the already doubled ball handler.

For the life of me I'll never understand why the answer is not improve rotations and Xing out rather than go backwards to make the focus 1 on 1, -if you beat him, you win- approach.
If MyTeam style players want to off ball and take a video game approach, cool. Let the defensive settings allow them to turn Help Off. Thats it. Czar even posted a video showing that that worked. Why isn't that the continued approach?

This game is literal trash right now on the defensive side of the ball from an NBA perspective. Period, there's no sugar coating it. This is not basketball. It's a wonderful MyTeam experience, sprint around a PnR for a dunk, thats great, let them have their settings for that. I wouldn't even be mad if theirs was the default experience and we had to use 100's of sliders to create the experience that we're looking for. But we don't even have that option as so many of the relevant sliders that would seemingly relate to these issues do nothing.
We are stuck with a $70-$100 screen saver or drink coaster.

This is truly unacceptable.

I don't want to hear excuses anymore. The game was acceptable before, the gameplay blog had relevance before, the game was not perfect, but it was closer to an NBA game than it is now. Simply because cutter help was too sensitive to video game tactics. THEN SLOW DOWN PASSING SPEED, SPEED UP DEFENSIVE ROTATIONS OR SIMPLY ALLOW HELP TO BE ON OR OFF. Universally turning off help, or buffing 7 footers on ball is not the answer, and will never be the answer, even for the casual gamer! I know nothing is that simple, but take that direction at least in your attempts to correct the issue over the following weeks.

It's not like taking the big manually and standing out of position was even some new comp tactic as if, omg cheesers found something new we never thought of! There really wasnt anyone at 2k in July who said, hm what happens if I off ball and sag off but stand in the passing lane? Cmon

I apologize for being dramatic on a forum. But I'm really done man, I spend my money every year too. That blog gave me hope, and this result is insulting.

So dead on. I try and stay away from words like unacceptable and trash lol but I agree 100%! I feel like I’m back in my childhood playing a patched version of double dribble on Nintendo with a pnr added to it. Lol

[Reddcheese]

Re: Please turn the help defense, and cutter help defense back to were it was on rele

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1183819...tt_content=vod

Oh Yeah!!! That’s some strong PIP. I love to see that PIP of a morning when I load up with hope in my heart. PIP, PIP PIP!

The stick skills exhibited by you are unmatched from my experience. The way you deftly call that play then sprint and earn those PIP is an artform. The genius you exhibit by pressing LB to call for a second screen is PIPing amazing!

2K22 is a TOuGh game but this vid has inspired me to not give up!