2023 Offseason Thread

[georgiafan]

Re: 2023 Offseason Thread

That trend seems to be going away in recent years and I guess the Lakers does officially count. Probably deserves a asterisk and even then you could argue they would have been better keeping the players they gave up.

I don't think Lillard fits with Miami. Even if he does why would Portland accept the deal when they could get much better offers from other teams. I'm sure they don't want to do him dirty, but Miami doesn't have much tradeable assets.

And when was the last time a team won after emptying everything to get a superstar to win?

Closest is Lakers for AD, but that was bubble year, so do we count that?

Before that, who else gave up multiple 1sts for a superstar where it paid off like that?

[Majingir]

Re: 2023 Offseason Thread

That trend seems to be going away in recent years and I guess the Lakers does officially count. Probably deserves a asterisk and even then you could argue they would have been better keeping the players they gave up.



I don't think Lillard fits with Miami. Even if he does why would Portland accept the deal when they could get much better offers from other teams. I'm sure they don't want to do him dirty, but Miami doesn't have much tradeable assets.

Lakers is definitely different since it's in the bubble, but besides them, closest I can think is Cavs for Love, even if Love wasnt their top or 2nd option and Bennett was already a bust by then, Wiggins was still involved. Before that, who else? Heat was simply LeBron choosing to go there even if it involved S&Ts.

Besides that, nothing since the Lakers/Celtics in late 00s. Meanwhile, how many BIG (sacrificing your long term future) deals have been done without titles?

PG, KG/Pierce, Westbrook, Harden, Gobert, you name it, those deals didn't work.

[ojandpizza]

Re: 2023 Offseason Thread

That trend seems to be going away in recent years and I guess the Lakers does officially count. Probably deserves a asterisk and even then you could argue they would have been better keeping the players they gave up.

I don't think Lillard fits with Miami. Even if he does why would Portland accept the deal when they could get much better offers from other teams. I'm sure they don't want to do him dirty, but Miami doesn't have much tradeable assets.

Do we think most teams are trading those type of assets for Dame though? I don't buy that personally. He's 33 next month, he's not getting the Donovan Mitchell, Anthony Davis trade haul.

Also I think Dame is a great player, but I'm not sure he's really dynamic enough in multiple facets of the game to put lacking teams over the top. Portland has built teams from every angle aside from having a good enough team to basically get pretty far without him. I feel like he needs to land in a Kawhi to Toronto situation. Where the team he lands on is already bordering on contender level and he upgrades them enough to push them a step further.

Surveying those types of teams who's got assets, or picks, to put them in a better position than Miami? Off the top of my head, Boston could get there with Jaylen Brown.. But is that a move they make? They were hesitant to do that for KD. Dame isn't KD. Nets have the assets, but they just went through this mess. I don't see them trading everyone for another old star, and even if they did is Dame and Bridges winning you a ring? Knicks have pieces but then they are pairing Dame with Brunson. Clippers and Dubs are both about to have to shed money because of this new CBA..

I could be missing someone obvious here. But it feels like Miami might be the only team with a young potential All-Star like Herro who could also send them 3-4 picks. Unless Boston will move Brown, or maybe Middleton's contract expiring after next year and getting 40 mil off the books excites Portland.

I get other teams might have more assets to trade but I'm just struggling to find the team that wants to sell the farm of picks for an older player. Or are close enough that getting Dame for what you give up to get him actually moves the needle a ton.

Sleeper teams might be Spurs, OKC, Houston. Maybe New Orleans comes into play. They all have picks, not sure how common it is for the Spurs to move picks or how strongly they feel Dame would push them far enough without seeing if Wemby is a star from day 1. Thunder/Rockets can take on a ton of salary, which is nice because Portland saves the most money that way. Pelicans aren't' that flexible unless they move Zion. Would they trade him for Dame and #3? Would Portland take risk like that for yet another always-injured guy.

[ojandpizza]

Re: 2023 Offseason Thread

Lakers is definitely different since it's in the bubble, but besides them, closest I can think is Cavs for Love, even if Love wasnt their top or 2nd option and Bennett was already a bust by then, Wiggins was still involved. Before that, who else? Heat was simply LeBron choosing to go there even if it involved S&Ts.

Besides that, nothing since the Lakers/Celtics in late 00s. Meanwhile, how many BIG (sacrificing your long term future) deals have been done without titles?

PG, KG/Pierce, Westbrook, Harden, Gobert, you name it, those deals didn't work.

It's hard to view it as title or no title though. Because that assumes the alternative, keeping those future picks, wins you a title. And we know that's not really how that works. Not every team with picks winds up with top 5 talent.

The point of these moves is to get you within contention of a title. After that you need some luck, and hope the pieces fit. But almost all of the moves for star level players "gives you a shot", and that is all you're asking for when you make those moves.

At some point all these trades run their course. If it doesn't work in your 3-5 year window you reset and move on. By that point you're usually a year away from having draft assets again, or get a few back by moving the players you were trying to win with.

But looking at those trades as "well they didn't win a ring so it's a failure" isn't really all that accurate because you're assuming whatever players you drafted would have won you rings. Which is not likely in most cases.

[georgiafan]

Re: 2023 Offseason Thread

Atlanta is in a tricky spot because the owner last year refused to pay the luxury tax. A lot of expensive guys on the team yet none of them are bad enough contracts to just give away. On paper a Harris for Collins trade would make sense, but I don't see it happening unless its mid season.

Bogdanovich - The only true shooter on the entire team so thats valuable coming off the bench. A bad fit on the defense ends and has knee issues. Since he signed the extension can't be traded till sometime in september when things are basically done.

Collins - Gets a lot of hate and I think his finger is causing the shooting issues as before that he was a 40% or so from 3. He needs to play with a team that uses him the right away as he is a elite pick & roll guy with his athleticism. Yet because of Clint he can't do that. Atlanta needs his defense . I think someone like LAC trying to get him, but Atlanta will be worse without him and have a lot of 3/5.

Capella - Wouldn't fit for philly, but I would like to see him moved. You drafted OO 6th who is shown promise and can't be a starter because of Clint.

Hunter - Possible he gets moved in a deal as Travis is gone. I don't see him being moved in a Tobas trade. Never going to be a star or live up to the goofy trade up.

Murray - Keep in mind as his contract is up after this year and Atlanta can't offer enough to lock him up this summer. Trae wanted him and they don't seem like a perfect pair.

I can definitely see Atlanta making some trades this offseason. They have six guys making over $18M which is crazy, and with this new upcoming CBA, they will have to get shed some salary for the future.

Which is where Tobias Harris would come in handy. I do think his salary finally becomes a positive asset since it's an massive expiring deal for someone who isn't seen as a bad fit on most teams. You trade for him and you'll clears the books. If it's a Philly-AtL trade involving Tobias, it'll probably have to involve two of ATLs top paid guys since ATL is in the luxury tax. It would be something like Tobias and Kormaz for Collins and Bogdanovic. For ATL, it's mainly a move to shed future salary and focus on 2024 and beyond. For Philly, not sure about the Collins and Embiid fit, but it would be an intriguing lineup. Assuming you lose Harden, Maxey-Bogdanovic-(insert SF)-Collins-Embiid and move Tucker to the bench. Either start Jalen McDaniels figure out a way to use Harden to get a TPE and get a solid 3 & D wing. That's not a bad lineup. They would have enough scoring to reduce Embiid’s load, while also fixing Sixers rebounding issues. Collins had his worse season, but could bounce back.

[illwill10]

Re: 2023 Offseason Thread

Atlanta is in a tricky spot because the owner last year refused to pay the luxury tax. A lot of expensive guys on the team yet none of them are bad enough contracts to just give away. On paper a Harris for Collins trade would make sense, but I don't see it happening unless its mid season.

Bogdanovich - The only true shooter on the entire team so thats valuable coming off the bench. A bad fit on the defense ends and has knee issues. Since he signed the extension can't be traded till sometime in June when things are basically done.

Collins - Gets a lot of hate and I think his finger is causing the shooting issues as before that he was a 40% or so from 3. He needs to play with a team that uses him the right away as he is a elite pick & roll guy with his athleticism. Yet because of Clint he can't do that. Atlanta needs his defense . I think someone like LAC trying to get him, but Atlanta will be worse without him and have a lot of 3/5.

Capella - Wouldn't fit for philly, but I would like to see him moved. You drafted OO 6th who is shown promise and can't be a starter because of Clint.

Hunter - Possible he gets moved in a deal as Travis is gone. I don't see him being moved in a Tobas trade. Never going to be a star or live up to the goofy trade up.

Murray - Keep in mind as his contract is up after this year and Atlanta can't offer enough to lock him up this summer. Trae wanted him and they don't seem like a perfect pair.

I could see Clint getting traded. There's a few teams that needs a Center

I agree, they paid all their guys, but none of them are "terrible" contracts. ATL just needs retool the roster to fit better.

I'm still all for a Pacers trade involving Buddy Hield. I think he'll really benefit playing alongside Embiid, but as a 6th man.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: 2023 Offseason Thread

He could definitely get more than the minimum if he were just taking the money. It’ll be a little more complicated assuming he limits himself to contenders because a lot of them will only have access to the taxpayer MLE or maybe not even that.

Doesn’t feel super likely but depending on how they waive him, Phoenix could just re-sign him at a cheaper number too I believe.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Following up on this...Bobby Marks mentioned on TV that CP3's contract has offset language in it so that whatever his potential new team pays him will just come out of the $16ish mil that Phoenix owes him after waiving him, so unless a team is going to offer him more than $16 mil, there's no financial reason for him to take more than the league minimum.

That makes things a lot more interesting to me.

[ProfessaPackMan]

2023 Offseason Thread

Feel like that’s pretty normal in buyout situations or in coaching situations at least.

But yeah, CP on a minimum you can’t go wrong.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: 2023 Offseason Thread

Do we think most teams are trading those type of assets for Dame though? I don't buy that personally. He's 33 next month, he's not getting the Donovan Mitchell, Anthony Davis trade haul.

Also I think Dame is a great player, but I'm not sure he's really dynamic enough in multiple facets of the game to put lacking teams over the top. Portland has built teams from every angle aside from having a good enough team to basically get pretty far without him. I feel like he needs to land in a Kawhi to Toronto situation. Where the team he lands on is already bordering on contender level and he upgrades them enough to push them a step further.

Surveying those types of teams who's got assets, or picks, to put them in a better position than Miami? Off the top of my head, Boston could get there with Jaylen Brown.. But is that a move they make? They were hesitant to do that for KD. Dame isn't KD. Nets have the assets, but they just went through this mess. I don't see them trading everyone for another old star, and even if they did is Dame and Bridges winning you a ring? Knicks have pieces but then they are pairing Dame with Brunson. Clippers and Dubs are both about to have to shed money because of this new CBA..

I could be missing someone obvious here. But it feels like Miami might be the only team with a young potential All-Star like Herro who could also send them 3-4 picks. Unless Boston will move Brown, or maybe Middleton's contract expiring after next year and getting 40 mil off the books excites Portland.

I get other teams might have more assets to trade but I'm just struggling to find the team that wants to sell the farm of picks for an older player. Or are close enough that getting Dame for what you give up to get him actually moves the needle a ton.

Sleeper teams might be Spurs, OKC, Houston. Maybe New Orleans comes into play. They all have picks, not sure how common it is for the Spurs to move picks or how strongly they feel Dame would push them far enough without seeing if Wemby is a star from day 1. Thunder/Rockets can take on a ton of salary, which is nice because Portland saves the most money that way. Pelicans aren't' that flexible unless they move Zion. Would they trade him for Dame and #3? Would Portland take risk like that for yet another always-injured guy.

At this point man, I don't even know if I'm comfortable rolling with this type of thought process any more. There's a sucker born every minute and for as nonsensical as some moves sound, someone is always making sure to position themselves to be the sucker that falls for it. I never thought anybody would be stupid enough to give up 7 thousand first round picks + players for Rudy Gobert and yet here we are. So it's hard to say man

[illwill10]

Re: 2023 Offseason Thread

"NBA Finals trade: The Denver Nuggets are acquiring the least favorable of Oklahoma City's first-round picks in 2024, the 37th pick in the 2023 draft and 2024 second-round pick for a protected 2029 first-round, sources tell ESPN.

Makes sense for both teams. Denver will have an expensive roster and will likely have to let certain guys walk. So adding more immediate draft picks and developing them is the way to go. For luxury tax teams, you'll need productive cost controlled players. For OKC, they had tons of picks and not enough roster space. So it make sense to kick the can

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: 2023 Offseason Thread

"NBA Finals trade: The Denver Nuggets are acquiring the least favorable of Oklahoma City's first-round picks in 2024, the 37th pick in the 2023 draft and 2024 second-round pick for a protected 2029 first-round, sources tell ESPN.

Makes sense for both teams. Denver will have an expensive roster and will likely have to let certain guys walk. So adding more immediate draft picks and developing them is the way to go. For luxury tax teams, you'll need productive cost controlled players. For OKC, they had tons of picks and not enough roster space. So it make sense to kick the can

You forgot this part:

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1667191401941983234?s=46&t=bmmyw4g-qEId3d4KHhv-qw

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1667192203070898176?s=46&t=bmmyw4g-qEId3d4KHhv-qw

[georgiafan]

Re: 2023 Offseason Thread

I like the trade for Denver, OKC is at the point where hoarding all the draft picks and yet to do anything substitutional with them.

The pick Denver gets next year could easily end up late teens/ early 20's


@KeithSmithNBA
That "least favorable" 2024 1st that Denver would get from OKC is one of:

OKC
HOU (if 5-30)
LAC
UTA (if 11-30)

[Majingir]

Re: 2023 Offseason Thread

This is completely out of nowhere. Don't think I've ever heard his name mentioned as a candidate.

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1667625459293511682?s=20

[jeebs9]

Re: 2023 Offseason Thread

This is completely out of nowhere. Don't think I've ever heard his name mentioned as a candidate.

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1...293511682?s=20

I think it's a great pick up!!! Fresh face to the scene. But also Grizzlies were pretty good the last 2 years. So we will see

[Majingir]

Re: 2023 Offseason Thread

I think it's a great pick up!!! Fresh face to the scene. But also Grizzlies were pretty good the last 2 years. So we will see

I've read some comments on him and people seem to think he'll be more of a ball movement type of coach. Raptors played at a much slower pace the last few years (bottom 5 vs Grizzlies who have been top 5), so we'll see how this changes things. It means more touches for Scottie for sure.

I also wonder if this changes their plans for any of their current guys on the roster.