2023 Offseason Thread

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: 2023 Offseason Thread

Apparently word is getting out that Porzingis is likely to opt in for his final year with the Wizards (and maybe be traded in the process, not sure).

Windhorst also saying the Beal trade rumors never felt real in past years, but they feel like an actual possibility this time and if he is traded, it'll likely be in the lead up to the draft. He also mentions that people will be shocked how little Washington gets in a Beal trade, but I think we all knew that was likely to be the case anyways.

[ojandpizza]

Re: 2023 Offseason Thread

The lakers don't need another old and injured player especially one at 30 Million. I would rather have Beasley and Bamba as expiring contracts. They could be traded to any team during the year as expiring's where Paul you can't do that.

I don't think they have plans of keeping them though. You're right that they should, but all rumors indicate cutting them lose. They haven't shown interest in really SPENDING the past couple of years, a trade falling into their lap to upgrade now is likely the only way they don't just cut ties and save money as those contracts are non-guaranteed.

[ojandpizza]

Re: 2023 Offseason Thread

Assuming Beal ends up in Miami maybe? They have bad money to match, could throw out a pick(s), and need an upgrade to help in this current window with no real means to get out other than something like this.

I don't see Washington getting a ton of value back from teams. He's injury prone, his teams haven't really "won", he's not young anymore, he never developed into the elite shooter he was expected to be, he's not currently still making All-Star teams or All-NBA teams, and he has maybe the "worst" contract in the NBA currently.

Also Brad has veto power. I think he's the only player in the league with a no trade clause, plus teams are trading for a guy who's making 50m that isn't currently a star.. Tough sell. 11-years into his career and he's been a 3-time All-Star and a 1-time All-NBA player (3rd team).

By his last year he'll be at 57m and he's a career fringe All-Star guy who's also oft-injured and for all we know could have his best ball behind him. Would help his case some if he was elite at any one thing, but he's like 7 years removed from his last 40% year from three..

Even using Gobert as a comparison he was at least the leagues best shot-blocker, leading rebounder, and best finisher %wise before his trade. With Utah had historically good on/off splits and impact metrics, to go along with 3 DPOTY awards, 6 defensive teams, and 4 All-NBA teams, and he doesn't have a no trade clause, and his contract tops out at 11m less than Beal's. That's money for another whole *** starter lol. Even as bad as that move looks initially for Minnesota, depending on Beal's health, what's traded for him, and whether or not he moves the needle for a contender his trade could instantly look worse than even that one.

I feel like most teams know all that, I don't see Washington getting a big haul of picks or multiple young impactful players here.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: 2023 Offseason Thread

Assuming Beal ends up in Miami maybe? They have bad money to match, could throw out a pick(s), and need an upgrade to help in this current window with no real means to get out other than something like this.

I don't see Washington getting a ton of value back from teams. He's injury prone, his teams haven't really "won", he's not young anymore, he never developed into the elite shooter he was expected to be, he's not currently still making All-Star teams or All-NBA teams, and he has maybe the "worst" contract in the NBA currently.

Also Brad has veto power. I think he's the only player in the league with a no trade clause, plus teams are trading for a guy who's making 50m that isn't currently a star.. Tough sell. 11-years into his career and he's been a 3-time All-Star and a 1-time All-NBA player (3rd team).

By his last year he'll be at 57m and he's a career fringe All-Star guy who's also oft-injured and for all we know could have his best ball behind him. Would help his case some if he was elite at any one thing, but he's like 7 years removed from his last 40% year from three..

Even using Gobert as a comparison he was at least the leagues best shot-blocker, leading rebounder, and best finisher %wise before his trade. With Utah had historically good on/off splits and impact metrics, to go along with 3 DPOTY awards, 6 defensive teams, and 4 All-NBA teams, and he doesn't have a no trade clause, and his contract tops out at 11m less than Beal's. That's money for another whole *** starter lol. Even as bad as that move looks initially for Minnesota, depending on Beal's health, what's traded for him, and whether or not he moves the needle for a contender his trade could instantly look worse than even that one.

I feel like most teams know all that, I don't see Washington getting a big haul of picks or multiple young impactful players here.

I will note that I don't think these teams should necessarily make these trades, but some potential trade packages that work financially (ignoring picks because I'm too lazy to look up what picks each team has):

Miami: Lowry, Oladipo, and Nikola Jovic (I imagine it would basically come down to Lowry + picks vs. Herro and no/fewer picks)

Golden State: Poole, Kuminga, Moody

Brooklyn: Dinwiddie, Joe Harris, Cam Thomas (Brooklyn would be funny whether Dinwiddie is in the trade or if he reunites with Beal considering how terrible that went the first time around)

Boston: Brogdon, Grant Williams (sign and trade), Pritchard, Hauser

Philly: Tobias Harris, basically any other player (De'Anthony Melton, Jaden Springer, etc.)

New York: Barrett, Fournier

[ProfessaPackMan]

2023 Offseason Thread

Trying to guess a player’s value even from an armchair GM standpoint is kinda tough.

I say that because it misses/ignores the part about where there are teams out here that are always desperate to make a move that in THEIR eyes will make them better(“He can be the piece that can help get us over the hump” is what they’ll say) or because they’re trying to keep a player happy/be proactive before they become unhappy.

So I’ll say this: Beal is good enough to where he’s not gonna get moves for a bunch of nothing(IE 2nd rd picks). Even with his credentials/reputation among the players/leagues, which matters more than we say, the Wizards would still get something, even if it’s not a bunch of young players with upside.

[ojandpizza]

Re: 2023 Offseason Thread

I will note that I don't think these teams should necessarily make these trades, but some potential trade packages that work financially (ignoring picks because I'm too lazy to look up what picks each team has):

Miami: Lowry, Oladipo, and Nikola Jovic

Golden State: Poole, Kuminga, Moody

Brooklyn: Dinwiddie, Joe Harris, Cam Thomas (Brooklyn would be funny whether Dinwiddie is in the trade or if he reunites with Beal considering how terrible that went the first time around)

Boston: Brogdon, Grant Williams (sign and trade), Pritchard, Hauser

Philly: Tobias Harris, basically any other player (De'Anthony Melton, Jaden Springer, etc.)

New York: Barrett, Fournier

I think with Boston and Golden State there would be issues going forward with the new CBA changes. Golden State and the Clippers are expected to have issues with that as is, and Beal is about an additional 10m on that outgoing package. They'd likely have to find a way to dump one of Dray, Klay, Wiggins for a cheaper player... Boston would position themselves similarly going forward with Tatum, Brown, and Beal. Especially with Smart, White, Horford, Rob. They'd be over the new 2nd apron after that trade.

Brooklyn trade isn't all that bad for them. idk that Beal and Bridges get them where they want to go, but having Beal instead of Dinwiddie + Harris isn't a bad move. They would be competitive and still have flexibility to improve.

Had read that Philly might have complications with Embiid and Beal under contract moving forward. Think the two of them eat up like 70%+ of the cap eventually. They have Maxey's bird rights, but they would be banking heavily on Maxey, Beal, Embiid being enough to win you a ring even if the rest of the roster winds up being minimum deals. Letting Harden walk for nothing helps in the meantime, but Philly is then hoping exchanging Harden, Harris, Melton for Beal actually improves them. Harden staying and extending Maxey puts them right up to that 2nd apron as soon as next year.

[ojandpizza]

Re: 2023 Offseason Thread

I say that because it misses/ignores the part about where there are teams out here that are always desperate to make a move that in THEIR eyes will make them better(“He can be the piece that can help get us over the hump” is what they’ll say)

Exactly, but who is that team? That's all I'm trying to figure out here because the price tag is hefty and he has to actually accept the trade as well. Not only does a team have to be willing to want him but realistically he also has to want to be there. He has a no trade clause. Miami fits because Lowry also has a horrible contract. Most teams trying to get over the hump, their bigger contracts are also players they need to keep to still get over the hump.

And it's no disrespect to Beal but you can get 22 a night playing half the games for WAY cheaper than 58m where his contract ends up.. Especially if we're assuming he's dropping to a 3rd option and that 22 a night might be more like 18. If he can get back to playing 70+ games and shooting closer to 40% from 3 again that value goes up, but for most teams trying to get over the hump they can get that 20 a night capable guy for literally half his money.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: 2023 Offseason Thread

I think with Boston and Golden State there would be issues going forward with the new CBA changes. Golden State and the Clippers are expected to have issues with that as is, and Beal is about an additional 10m on that outgoing package. They'd likely have to find a way to dump one of Dray, Klay, Wiggins for a cheaper player... Boston would position themselves similarly going forward with Tatum, Brown, and Beal. Especially with Smart, White, Horford, Rob. They'd be over the new 2nd apron after that trade.

Brooklyn trade isn't all that bad for them. idk that Beal and Bridges get them where they want to go, but having Beal instead of Dinwiddie + Harris isn't a bad move. They would be competitive and still have flexibility to improve.

Had read that Philly might have complications with Embiid and Beal under contract moving forward. Think the two of them eat up like 70%+ of the cap eventually. They have Maxey's bird rights, but they would be banking heavily on Maxey, Beal, Embiid being enough to win you a ring even if the rest of the roster winds up being minimum deals. Letting Harden walk for nothing helps in the meantime, but Philly is then hoping exchanging Harden, Harris, Melton for Beal actually improves them. Harden staying and extending Maxey puts them right up to that 2nd apron as soon as next year.

Yup, agreed with all that. I'm not really all that convinced the Golden State one makes them much better anyways, and it would put them in pretty much an impossible cap situation moving forwards.

It feels to me like Miami is really the one that would make legitimate sense both financially and asset wise for them to do it.

Brooklyn could if their front office decides they'd rather be good-ish right away.

Boston probably won't work if they intend to give Jaylen Brown the supermax.

Knicks could theoretically work, though I wouldn't advise them to do it lol.

Philly I think could go either way; I'm sure they feel like they have to make their title push right now with questions about Embiid's health every year (deserved or not). I don't think a Maxey/Beal backcourt is a great fit, but it's hard to imagine they might lose Harden for nothing and then just decide to sit on their hands and move forward with a big 3 of Embiid/Maxey/Tobias.

[BleacherBum2310]

Re: 2023 Offseason Thread

Tatum needs to get involved. Beal contract stinks but you know what also stinks giving Jaylen the supermax and I'm not convinced yet they will give it to him. and Beal is going to go for alot less than we think because of the contract hence his best buddy needs to get involved.

[illwill10]

Re: 2023 Offseason Thread

Here you go, Will:

https://twitter.com/phillypmc/status/1668622248109031425?s=46&t=bmmyw4g-qEId3d4KHhv-qw

What’s your thoughts on this?

I read some of the transcript yesterday because I didn't want to hear that BS lol. Most of what he said is true, though. Doc didn't "deserve" to be fired. He had his best season as the Sixers HC. I just never thought he was the right coach. Reports were that Ben Simmons wanted Ty Lue and Embiid wanted D'Antoni, but then Doc got fired and they went with the big name. Part of the reason was that they felt Doc could hold guys accountable. Well it's hard to hold guys accountable, when you're not accountable. Not once in 3 seasons has Doc hold himself accountable. Even in that podcast, he didn't show accountability. I get that it's a Players League, but he's the HC, reign in your players lol. Those are times when he needed to step up and take charge of situations. Like Hatden not wanting to move without the ball. That offense was so stagnant. It's easy to defend in the playoffs when guys don't move without the ball and you know where everyone will be. Doc is stubborn and set in his ways. The saying is that GM picks the ingredients and the coaches have to cook with those ingredients. Well Doc has a specific recipe, so he needs specific ingredients lol. You could tell Doc had personnel say. Dwight Howard, Drummond, Jordan, Millsap, Harrell, and Dedmon were clearly guys that Doc wanted. At least Nurse and Morey has good history and I see them working together better.


But what he said about Harden and Joel was true. Harden wants to play a specific way. He just stands there when he doesn't have the ball, so it's easy to defend him. I felt those 40 point games were a fluke. When those stepback threes don't fall, his offense isn't reliable. When you play very slow and deliberate, you need an efficient game . Harden's offense is very inefficient. Nurse wants commitment on defense, you're not getting that with Harden lol. I don't want to see the basketball freedom Harden wants. I do think Embiid has grown as a leader over the years. But, he's still an introvert. He'd rather keep to himself off the court. Embiid does need to get pushed, but he does respond well to it. I'm just hoping that Nurse holds him accountable and pushes him.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: 2023 Offseason Thread

Shams stating the obvious that Miami is the frontrunner for Beal, but he also said to keep an eye on the Milwaukee Bucks trading for Beal...I don't think there's a theoretical package that makes sense for us. Unless Washington wants to sign-and-trade for Brook Lopez or Jae Crowder for some reason, the only way we can possibly acquire Beal is by trading Jrue and or Middleton.

Neither of them make sense for Washington in a rebuild, so it would have to be a three team deal and it's just hard to really formulate that kind of trade to begin with, much less to find a way to make it make sense for Milwaukee.

[ojandpizza]

2023 Offseason Thread

Shams stating the obvious that Miami is the frontrunner for Beal, but he also said to keep an eye on the Milwaukee Bucks trading for Beal...I don't think there's a theoretical package that makes sense for us. Unless Washington wants to sign-and-trade for Brook Lopez or Jae Crowder for some reason, the only way we can possibly acquire Beal is by trading Jrue and or Middleton.



Neither of them make sense for Washington in a rebuild, so it would have to be a three team deal and it's just hard to really formulate that kind of trade to begin with, much less to find a way to make it make sense for Milwaukee.

Neither makes sense for Washington in a rebuild, but Middleton makes sense to get off that money in order for them to rebuild in the first place. Beal has like 200m left on his deal over the next 4 years. Middleton if he accepts his player option for this season expires after this year.

Washington could waive him, buy him out, whatever. And a 40 mil expiring contract is much easier to move than Beal’s contract. They could move Middleton elsewhere, or get a 3rd team involved.

The real question is why would Milwaukee want to do that? When healthy Middleton is probably a better player from his two-way value alone then at Beal at any point in his career. He’s already shown he can get them a ring as a number two, he closes games for them, there are not “fit” issues. Maybe Milwaukee thinks he never gets back to his old self, but Beal is just as injury prone.

Maybe there are other pieces they could get back like Kuz, or Wright, or Morris, and Milwaukee would have interest there. “Rumors” say Portis wants to go play for Ham.. Milwaukee could send Middleton, Allen, Portis and get back Beal and Kuzma. Lakers could trade Bamba and a first for Portis, Washington likely waives Bamba to save 10m as he’s non-guaranteed. Milwaukee sends out a couple others like Carter and Beauchamp, or even Ingles, and they could also get Monte Morris, who I personally like but idk what others see his value as. I thought he was great for Denver as a backup PG.

But yeah I don’t see how it really makes sense for Milwaukee even in something like that unless they just want a change.

Philly I think could go either way; I'm sure they feel like they have to make their title push right now with questions about Embiid's health every year (deserved or not). I don't think a Maxey/Beal backcourt is a great fit, but it's hard to imagine they might lose Harden for nothing and then just decide to sit on their hands and move forward with a big 3 of Embiid/Maxey/Tobias.

Ultimate dick move would be convincing Harden to pick up his option to “stay” and then trading him with Harris lol. Toss out whatever picks they can trade and they could get back Beal, Kuzma, Delon Wright or something along those lines. Washington likely doesn’t keep Harden or Harris anyways. If they are tanking they would surely waive, buyout, or re-trade them. Harden could likely still easily make his way back to Houston going they route. Washington would actually take a couple young pieces for him that Philly wouldn’t be interested in and Houston can absorb a lot of extra salary.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: 2023 Offseason Thread

Word around Milwaukee is that Middleton is likely opting out and re-signing for like 4 years $120-130 million, so I'm guessing he's staying and it would be Jrue being floated for a Beal trade.

I don't like it personally, but the following would work financially (and you could include picks heading whatever way is necessary):

Washington gets: Anfernee Simons, Nassir Little
Milwaukee gets: Bradley Beal
Portland gets: Jrue Holiday, Grayson Allen (or a Pat Connaughton reunion theoretically)

I would like to think Jrue carries significantly more trade value than Beal at this point, even before factoring in Beal's no trade clause so I would like to think Milwaukee could get some picks thrown their way in such a scenario but eh...

I've never been a fan of Beal's game personally and that contract is horrifying.

[illwill10]

Re: 2023 Offseason Thread

No thanks on Beal. Even if you don't have to give up Maxey, Maxey and Beal's game is very similar wouldn't mesh together. I completely understand going all in and not settling for a gap year in order to have a lot of cap space next year. It's not like there is a superstar in next year's FA. I would only do the gap year, if I let Harden walk and I felt Maxey could take a big leap. That way, I could use that space to fill out the roster around Maxey and Embiid. But, you can't waste one of Embiid’s prime years and you're not sure if he'd be okay with wasting a year. Going for Beal is an all-in move. Beal isn't the player I would want to go all in for. I'd rather go for Dame, but that would be too expensive. I'd rather see I could get Zach Lavine. I'd rather have Lavine than Beal

[georgiafan]

Re: 2023 Offseason Thread

Miami is going to want to include Duncan Robinson's salary with Lowry. Then your looking at like Vincent - Beal - Hero - Butler - Bam