Reaction Time & Pass Cover Focus Thread

[rudyjuly2]

Quote: Originally Posted by Hot Kidd

Very few sports game developers talk about their sliders. I wonder why. Is it because they arent entirely sure of the effect on the game?

That is very true. I remember back in the PS2 days when NCAA Football had the knockdown slider. The guys at EA said it only related to the DL when the truth was it had a far bigger impact on DBs. I actually loved that slider since it controlled how much reach a DB had to knock down balls. At 99 they could super swat. At 0 they were almost a ghost and barely made plays on the ball.

I've asked this before of the dev teams and most of them just play on default. And whenever I've asked a prominent game changer about the sliders they can't even tell me if they added or changed anything since they never look. They need at least one game changer just to test this area and get it right.

[SunRise]

Read people still not sure about what these sliders do, to me it's very clear:

Pass reaction: it's how fast the defenders react when the ball carrier get the ball or the ball is thrown. It's the time they need to get to the ball from their positions: pass reaction at 0 means they need more time; pass reaction at 100 they need less time.

Interception: it's the chance to intercept the ball instead of a drop. This slider doesn't have effect whether the defender attempts to intercept or to swat. It depends only on the defender's position: if in range to intercept he will try if too far he'll try to swat the ball.

Pass coverage: this is the ability of the defender to stick with the receiver when he changes route. In a post route for example if pass cov. is at zero the defender will react slow and lose few steps if at 100 he will be the shadow of the WR.

That said I want to post my set (it's not the final but very close) and see what you guys think and if has suggestion to make it better.

Level: all madden (the CPU gets a boost and it's the only way to make the CPU offensive line more reliable against the sacks)

Game speed: fast - NFL players are FAST, everything happens in few seconds. So I think fast better replicates what happens on the fields on Sunday and Monday and Thursday )

Heat seeker, ball hawk and all the rest OFF

Threshold 41. I read a post on OS about the explanation of threshold and how the players speed increase or decrease around an average speed. At 100 the slowest player become faster and this includes among the others also the DE's and DT's. Yes also the OL's become faster but this doesn't help in reducing sacks. When an OL is beaten they are not going to recover in any way. Instead the fact that the defensive linemen become faster has a huge impact on the sacks number. They need less time to get the QB once they beat the OL and this will likely result in a sack. At threshold 0 the fastest players become even more faster and who has already a 96 speed will get a boost till 100. So that's why the 41. At 41 a player that has 99 speed will get a boost till 100 but not over.

Injuries: 54
Fatigue: 65

HUM|CPU

QB accuracy: 9 | 36
Pass block: 26 | 46
WR Catch: 45 | 45 (I'm thinking to drop it by one for both)

Run block: 1 | 55
Fumble: 54 | 60

Reaction time: 5 | 90
Interception: 84 | 39 so high for the HUM cause with such a loose coverage the defenders will rarely be in positions to intercept.
Pass coverage: 9 | 81

Tackle: 48 | 48 (maybe to drop at 47)

FG Power: 50 | 50
FG accuracy: 26 | 36
Punt power: 45 | 45
Punt accuracy: 58 | 85
Kickoff: 51

PENALTIES

offside: 3
False start: 92
Holding: 95
Facemask: 55
Defensive pass interference: 91 (thinking to go up to 94/95)
Offensive pass interference: 41 (thinking to go down to 37/38)
Need to test this changes maintaining the defensive sliders the same (It could help to prevent too high completion %

KR|PR Interference: 62
Clipping: 79
Intention grounding: 65
Roughing the passer: 40
Roughing the kicker: 56

[4thQtrStre5S]

Seems Reaction Time has a noticeable effect on reaction to wherever the ball is, so it covers how fast players react to a running play....Yet in the pass game it appears that Reaction Time effects reaction times of defenders playing zone, and I have not seen anything noticeable to it effecting M2M coverage....I still cannot pinpoint whether lower slider is faster or slower - but I am leaning towards lower is faster, and I do this by focusing on how quickly defenders are reacting to the run play - and tackle combines with Reaction time in how quickly defenders close on a player with a ball...appears, lower the tackle rating, the fewer hard hits, and increased chances of a broken tackle, along with boosting reaction time and separation from blockers....

Pass Cover seems to adjust coverage in general for M2M the most...The higher the slider the better the coverage, or generally, the longer a defender will stay with a receiver...

Interception slider appears to effect how fast a defender jumps on a ball as it gets to a receiver...The lower the INT slider, the less jump or cutting off passes....can use this to fine tune pass cover, imo.

Bottom line is, in balancing the defense - ALL these sliders HAVE to be adjusted to get the right amount of coverage and run defense; and I have not seen any extreme slider rating work very well, such as Pass Cover 80, Reaction Time 2, or vice-versa....

It appears there is a bell curve in effect with ratings; 25-75 appears to be the sweet zone, and anything outside the zone is unpredictable and does not show any true difference in effect....thus a rating of Reaction time of 2 or 98, no difference....In my observations.

[Smirkin Dirk]

Quote: Originally Posted by 4thQtrStre5S

Seems Reaction Time has a noticeable effect on reaction to wherever the ball is, so it covers how fast players react to a running play....Yet in the pass game it appears that Reaction Time effects reaction times of defenders playing zone, and I have not seen anything noticeable to it effecting M2M coverage....I still cannot pinpoint whether lower slider is faster or slower - but I am leaning towards lower is faster, and I do this by focusing on how quickly defenders are reacting to the run play - and tackle combines with Reaction time in how quickly defenders close on a player with a ball...appears, lower the tackle rating, the fewer hard hits, and increased chances of a broken tackle, along with boosting reaction time and separation from blockers.... Pass Cover seems to adjust coverage in general for M2M the most...The higher the slider the better the coverage, or generally, the longer a defender will stay with a receiver... Interception slider appears to effect how fast a defender jumps on a ball as it gets to a receiver...The lower the INT slider, the less jump or cutting off passes....can use this to fine tune pass cover, imo. Bottom line is, in balancing the defense - ALL these sliders HAVE to be adjusted to get the right amount of coverage and run defense; and I have not seen any extreme slider rating work very well, such as Pass Cover 80, Reaction Time 2, or vice-versa.... It appears there is a bell curve in effect with ratings; 25-75 appears to be the sweet zone, and anything outside the zone is unpredictable and does not show any true difference in effect....thus a rating of Reaction time of 2 or 98, no difference....In my observations.

Interesting. So you're saying you think lower reaction time means zone pass defense is quicker to pick up targets?

[4thQtrStre5S]

Quote: Originally Posted by Hot Kidd

Interesting. So you're saying you think lower reaction time means zone pass defense is quicker to pick up targets?

correct...i'm doing an actual in game test right now, CPU v CPU with reaction at 25, down from 75...and will comment on my findings after game.

pass cover the same @ 55
interceptions same @ 25

[Smirkin Dirk]

What are your thoughts? Ill be able to give these a try tomorrow.

[4thQtrStre5S]

Quote: Originally Posted by Hot Kidd

What are your thoughts? Ill be able to give these a try tomorrow.

I have found the sweet spot for sliders, at this time, to be between 25-75. going farther on either end seems to results in less predictable results, and I have no explanation as to why, at this time.


What I have at this point is, Reaction Time effects the speed at which a defender reacts to a ball carrier, whether a RB or WR or TE. Once they have the ball in hand, Reaction Time determines how fast they respond towards the ball carrier, with Speed and Acceleration then taking effect. A reaction time of 25 is quicker than a Reaction Time of 75; beyond this zone reaction times seem unpredictable and cold appear that a reaction time of 100 is faster or 0 is faster.

Interception slider appears to determine how aggressive the defender will be in closing the gap between the defender and receiver, or essentially jumping the route, and aiding in the defender making the final interception...I am gonna test this slider with the "catch" rating to see if it somehow modifies a defenders catch rating.

Tackle slider - how well a player tackles, but also can go in conjunction with reaction time to fine tune the ability for a defender to get to a ball carrier, and reduce yards after catch or yards after first contact chance. The lower, the greater chance for broken tackles and more gang tackle situations.

Pass Cover is purely M2M cover - I have yet to see any difference in Zone coverage. 25 is looser coverage and 75 is tighter coverage..

Apparently Zone Coverage is handled purely by the players Zone Coverage rating.

WR Catch not only determines catch ability, but also separation. A WR Catch of 25 will see more dropped balls and tighter coverage from the defense when the Pass Coverage rating is equal to or higher than the WR Catch. If WR Catch if Higher than Pass Coverage, you will start to see more catch and better separation.

Pass Accuracy is not only how accurate a QB is, but how it can counter a higher Pass Coverage to Lower WR Catch....If you have a WR Catch at 70 and a Pass Defense at 70, and a QB Accuracy at 70, for example, you have a better chance of completing the pass cause of how accurate the ball.. A higher QB Accuracy seems to effect pocket presence for a QB too.

Here is the kicker, that I have observed...First, in doing this testing I took one team, The Dolphins in this case, and set all core ratings like speed, strength, agility, etc. to 70, and then all position specific ratings to 70, as well as stamina, injury and toughness to 70.. What I found is, when it comes to the passing attack, defending the receivers and attack in general, when all sliders are even and ratings are even, the defense has a distinct advantage...The running game on the other hand has an advantage, inherently over the run defense...

So when setting defensive sliders to open the passing game, lower pass coverage below the main passing sliders; in addiction adjust interception slider lower to reduce jumped routes and interception as needed.

Think of it as WR Catch and Pass Coverage are intertwined; once you get those sliders set t how well you want the defender to cover and how open you want receivers to get, then adjust QB accuracy to how tight a coverage you want the QB to be able to get a ball past...The higher the QB accuracy, the tighter the Pass Coverage can be and the pass will still have a chance to be completed....

I have not tested fumble sliders to see if it effects a RB's ability to do anything special but not lose the ball...The QB is more sensitive to the fumble slider, in regards to losing the ball, that a RB.

These are my observations at this time...Still need more testing...I have sliders set differently between HUM/CPU but am running CPU v CPU games and in the last 2 games, thee has been a distinct difference in completion percentages; thus either one team had great play calling or even when selecting CPU v CPU one team is running off the HUM slider ratings...In this case both games had the visiting team with a much higher QB completion rating...My last game the visiting team, both teams the adjusted Dolphins with same ratings, wen 22 of 22, while the home team completed just about ~59% of it's passes.

Tackles behind the line totals where 12 between both teams, and there were 8 sacks between both teams...Pass block was at 75..I have a tendency to believe that, outside of a RB getting stuffed (Run Blk is at 50), there are too many passes to the flats and they are being stuffed. I have tackle at 50, so maybe lowering to 25 will help solve the tackle for loss issue...

There ultimately is a mess of connected sliders...especially with the Passing related sliders and pass coverage...and defense has the inherent advantage when all things are equal, sliders and player ratings..So I would suggest keeping pass cover below WR Catch, and then adjust QB accuracy ad pass block to get the desired completion rate and sack rate.

[StefJoeHalt]

Quote: Originally Posted by 4thQtrStre5S

I have found the sweet spot for sliders, at this time, to be between 25-75. going farther on either end seems to results in less predictable results, and I have no explanation as to why, at this time. What I have at this point is, Reaction Time effects the speed at which a defender reacts to a ball carrier, whether a RB or WR or TE. Once they have the ball in hand, Reaction Time determines how fast they respond towards the ball carrier, with Speed and Acceleration then taking effect. A reaction time of 25 is quicker than a Reaction Time of 75; beyond this zone reaction times seem unpredictable and cold appear that a reaction time of 100 is faster or 0 is faster. Interception slider appears to determine how aggressive the defender will be in closing the gap between the defender and receiver, or essentially jumping the route, and aiding in the defender making the final interception...I am gonna test this slider with the "catch" rating to see if it somehow modifies a defenders catch rating. Tackle slider - how well a player tackles, but also can go in conjunction with reaction time to fine tune the ability for a defender to get to a ball carrier, and reduce yards after catch or yards after first contact chance. The lower, the greater chance for broken tackles and more gang tackle situations. Pass Cover is purely M2M cover - I have yet to see any difference in Zone coverage. 25 is looser coverage and 75 is tighter coverage.. Apparently Zone Coverage is handled purely by the players Zone Coverage rating. WR Catch not only determines catch ability, but also separation. A WR Catch of 25 will see more dropped balls and tighter coverage from the defense when the Pass Coverage rating is equal to or higher than the WR Catch. If WR Catch if Higher than Pass Coverage, you will start to see more catch and better separation. Pass Accuracy is not only how accurate a QB is, but how it can counter a higher Pass Coverage to Lower WR Catch....If you have a WR Catch at 70 and a Pass Defense at 70, and a QB Accuracy at 70, for example, you have a better chance of completing the pass cause of how accurate the ball.. A higher QB Accuracy seems to effect pocket presence for a QB too. Here is the kicker, that I have observed...First, in doing this testing I took one team, The Dolphins in this case, and set all core ratings like speed, strength, agility, etc. to 70, and then all position specific ratings to 70, as well as stamina, injury and toughness to 70.. What I found is, when it comes to the passing attack, defending the receivers and attack in general, when all sliders are even and ratings are even, the defense has a distinct advantage...The running game on the other hand has an advantage, inherently over the run defense... So when setting defensive sliders to open the passing game, lower pass coverage below the main passing sliders; in addiction adjust interception slider lower to reduce jumped routes and interception as needed. Think of it as WR Catch and Pass Coverage are intertwined; once you get those sliders set t how well you want the defender to cover and how open you want receivers to get, then adjust QB accuracy to how tight a coverage you want the QB to be able to get a ball past...The higher the QB accuracy, the tighter the Pass Coverage can be and the pass will still have a chance to be completed.... I have not tested fumble sliders to see if it effects a RB's ability to do anything special but not lose the ball...The QB is more sensitive to the fumble slider, in regards to losing the ball, that a RB. These are my observations at this time...Still need more testing...I have sliders set differently between HUM/CPU but am running CPU v CPU games and in the last 2 games, thee has been a distinct difference in completion percentages; thus either one team had great play calling or even when selecting CPU v CPU one team is running off the HUM slider ratings...In this case both games had the visiting team with a much higher QB completion rating...My last game the visiting team, both teams the adjusted Dolphins with same ratings, wen 22 of 22, while the home team completed just about ~59% of it's passes. Tackles behind the line totals where 12 between both teams, and there were 8 sacks between both teams...Pass block was at 75..I have a tendency to believe that, outside of a RB getting stuffed (Run Blk is at 50), there are too many passes to the flats and they are being stuffed. I have tackle at 50, so maybe lowering to 25 will help solve the tackle for loss issue... There ultimately is a mess of connected sliders...especially with the Passing related sliders and pass coverage...and defense has the inherent advantage when all things are equal, sliders and player ratings..So I would suggest keeping pass cover below WR Catch, and then adjust QB accuracy ad pass block to get the desired completion rate and sack rate.

Wow..feel like I need a PHD for this..would def explain dev's lack of interest in providing us with slider explanations due to the complexity of these sliders..I'm completely lost now lol


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