The Tackling in Madden 15 is ATROCIOUS!

[Big FN Deal]

Bezo man, I'm just, I don't know what the word is but wow man. I don't mean that in any kind of condescending way, I have the utmost respect of your opinion but I just can't see this. Specifics aside, gamers are generally asking for a complete football game, basically the football equivalent of The Show, with options to customize their experience. I just can't see how Tiburon accomplishing that or not, is on anybody but them, they are the ones making the game.

If they're taking cues from the community on how to specifically create the game then Madden is truly in bad shape and again all that can be done seems to be bandaids. That's like Tiburon saying "we can't fix the game properly for whatever reason so what's the communities suggestions to make the best of it". That's not the communities fault, they didn't design that hot mess of code, technically it's not the current devs fault either but it is what it is. I guess I'm going the long way of saying if Tiburon was going to fundamentally fix the game, they would because those fixes would better accomplish whatever people are suggesting with the bandaids. It's not like the community is going to have to pay more for fixes instead of bandaids, the notion that Tiburon could add fixes versus bandaids but haven't because they think the community prefers bandaids I just don't buy into. I can see it in the broad sense of if the majority of their consumer base refused to buy Madden until the game was fixed, then yeah that's a given but that ish ain't happening. A large portion of their consumers feel the game is good enough and they don't fall into that group requesting bandaids because they're not very vocal period.

No need for me to keep saying the same thing over and over some more so I'll just leave it at that.

[BezO]

Quote: Originally Posted by atomant94

Ah, I remember that! Some of those were very good, with more than one defender wrapping up. Some of them are similar to what we have now... one guy wrapping up, another 1 or 2 bouncing off, except they're all contextual & respect momentum.

IMO this is better than what I've seen recently. I'd take the tackling from '08 & '10 oever what we have now... at least what I've seen so far.

[Branchurian]

Im not a big fan of madden and hadn't bought it from 07 to 13, I bought madden 25 for 5 bucks off craigslist & sold it to gamestop for 9 after 4 months with it. Hated it, but I must say that the Pro-tak in madden 10 looked impressive, they should have expanded upon that more. Thats what I don't get with EA, they put something in, then scrape a year later to input crap. Seeing this shows me that talent really does dwell in the Tiburon cubicles & hallways. If they only just built off fundamental football through their iterations & really made a committment to delivering what we see on sundays, then they would have the support & blessings of all the football community.

[BezO]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

Bezo man, I'm just, I don't know what the word is but wow man. I don't mean that in any kind of condescending way, I have the utmost respect of your opinion but I just can't see this. Specifics aside, gamers are generally asking for a complete football game, basically the football equivalent of The Show, with options to customize their experience. I just can't see how Tiburon accomplishing that or not, is on anybody but them, they are the ones making the game.

That's why I'm not saying it's our fault. No, we are not making the game. Trying not to stray off our topic, but it's like the govt. It's not our fault it's screwed, but we support it by voting for the 2 options we believe have a chance to win. How many folks vote green or independant? How many folks sit out, asking for true representation?

The Show started as a good game and built on it. Madden is a different animal.

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

If they're taking cues from the community on how to specifically create the game then Madden is truly in bad shape and again all that can be done seems to be bandaids. That's like Tiburon saying "we can't fix the game properly for whatever reason so what's the communities suggestions to make the best of it". That's not the communities fault, they didn't design that hot mess of code, technically it's not the current devs fault either but it is what it is. I guess I'm going the long way of saying if Tiburon was going to fundamentally fix the game, they would because those fixes would better accomplish whatever people are suggesting with the bandaids. It's not like the community is going to have to pay more for fixes instead of bandaids, the notion that Tiburon could add fixes versus bandaids but haven't because they think the community prefers bandaids I just don't buy into. I can see it in the broad sense of if the majority of their consumer base refused to buy Madden until the game was fixed, then yeah that's a given but that ish ain't happening. A large portion of their consumers feel the game is good enough and they don't fall into that group requesting bandaids because they're not very vocal period. No need for me to keep saying the same thing over and over some more so I'll just leave it at that.

Now I'm confused. I thought you said EA was saying exactly that: "we can't fix the game properly for whatever reason so what's the communities suggestions to make the best of it".

I don't think they nor us think of them as band-aids. I think it's what I thought you said earlier. They'll fix what they think is possible today.

I'll say it one other way then leave it alone. IMO, Madden is not much better than Live was. The difference is that Live wasn't the cash cow that Madden is, and Live had competition kicking its *** and didn't have the means to get rid of them.

Live's troubles were bigger than a few small issues, just like I feel Madden is. They couldn't fix the core of that game in one year. They cancelled it and I'm guessing started from scratch.

I doubt that's an option for Madden. But what I believe they could do is focus on 1 or 2 global issues per year instead of trying to address what the community is yelling for. Spend time on core animations & AI. Leave inaccurate passes alone. Leave tackle cones alone. Leave the new play calling alone. Etc.

Instead, get the locomotion of every player on point. All 22 players with True Step and the related AI. IMO, how do you really address gameplay issues without fixing this 1st? Seems like you'd have to redo everything once players moved realistically.

The next year, focus on player interactions and related AI. Again, how much can you really fix without addressing this?

[strawberryshortcake]

Quote: Originally Posted by Branchurian

Im not a big fan of madden and hadn't bought it from 07 to 13, I bought madden 25 for 5 bucks off craigslist & sold it to gamestop for 9 after 4 months with it. Hated it, but I must say that the Pro-tak in madden 10 looked impressive, they should have expanded upon that more. Thats what I don't get with EA, they put something in, then scrape a year later to input crap. Seeing this shows me that talent really does dwell in the Tiburon cubicles & hallways. If they only just built off fundamental football through their iterations & really made a committment to delivering what we see on sundays, then they would have the support & blessings of all the football community.

Revisiting the Pro-tak video posted, it doesn't look impressive at all unfortunately. The concept is great but the execution is heartbreakingly poor.

Visually, it appears the ball carrier is a magnet and the tacklers are simply metal pieces being "sucked/suction" into a gang tackle animation. Notice the moment the defender X is near the pile (ball carrier plus existing tacklers gathered), defender X speeds up, motion shifts, and gets sucked into the group.

[Gridiron]

It's funny as all hell watchin some of those videos. In the '08 vids, they got dudes falling away like a bomb exploded. I mean, yo, the way it looks it looks like how a character would fall in one of those XBOX Live Indie games. Can you believe that actually came from a major gaming studio? Players fallin like heavy cardboard?

Then in 10, they all looked like they were in a Rugby scrum or somethin. The direction was tight, but it looked bad.

When you go over the years and see how silly some of what EA has done with Madden, it's hard to believe sometimes. We know the only reason they been able to get away with all of that. It's embarrassing and yet, the tackling system NOW is WORSE than those videos! That's what's so crazy about all of this! I never really thought about it, but looking at these vids, how can I deny it?

[Gridiron]

Quote: Originally Posted by strawberryshortcake

Revisiting the Pro-tak video posted, it doesn't look impressive at all unfortunately. The concept is great but the execution is heartbreakingly poor. Visually, it appears the ball carrier is a magnet and the tacklers are simply metal pieces being "sucked/suction" into a gang tackle animation. Notice the moment the defender X is near the pile (ball carrier plus existing tacklers gathered), defender X speeds up, motion shifts, and gets sucked into the group.

Yeah man. It's like that all the time with them. They come up with good ideas, but like you said, the execution comes off poor.

[Branchurian]

strawberry, you hit the nail right on the head. I like what they tried to do in theory, as of most of the EA gimmicks. Some sound really good on paper but when they implement them it is either a lackluster effort or poorly done to the point it's broken. I like the idea of the gang tackle & how they pil up but it seemed that the execution was poorly implemented. I didn't see momentum of the defender pushing the RB back & none of the defenders polished off the back at all. That is the first thing they teach you in pop warner, polish the back and he will fold. I was surprise to see EA even attempt to replicate football, I just wish that they encouraged more stuff like this and build upon it.