Review Fix: Rex Dickson and Brian Murray Talk Madden 15

[Danimal]

Quote: Originally Posted by jpdavis82

I've been talking with Clint for a while, he's a very straightforward person and he usually means exactly what he says. I expect the player movement to have improved since E3, literally every person who played it last week that I've talked to or read their article, said it was much improved. I also expect the halftime show to be improved in every way. It's all in perspective but like I said Clint is usually open and honest about things.

Ok well all he exactly said was they continue to work on the game post E3, that's a revelation to no one anywhere. He didn't exactly say "We improved player movement"

Perspective has nothing to do with it, you asked him a specific question which he did not answer. There is no perspective in that.

[totalpoop]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

Tiburon has reportedly refactored defensive zone coverage AI for more realistic and smarter defense, continued to make offensive line play more life-like for a more authentic pocket, and rewritten the QB accuracy checks on thrown passes for more simply-inaccurate incomplete passes which target no one. If those features aren't specific bones thrown at this board in an attempt to retain core customers who care about true-to-life gameplay, what is?

sorry about the mutually exclusive part, havent read all 17 pages of the thread and agree with you that on the mechanics aspect.

while EA/Tiburon has listened to some gripes from the OS board can you really tell me that those (re-tooling offensive line play, QB accuracy) are little nit picky things and not essential things to resemble ACTUAL football? i also don't think re-working broken mechanics should be the only way to retain existing customers, nor a way for Tiburon to say "Don't worry guys we listened!"

give us new features never seen before (not taken out three cycles ago and packaged as something completely new later), but i really wouldn't even care about that.

like most people here i am a simple man who would just like a decent franchise mode, and features previously included on MADDEN (not even going to go into 2k) to be put back in the game. i wouldn't care if any other company ever made a NFL licensed game ever again, just give me something that feels like a complete game. i have hope for madden this year because the NCAA franchise was wonderful in a lot of ways that madden wasn't over the past couple years, so hopefully ideas and talents spread across that game are now reflected and focused on Madden this year. I've also played FIFA 14 and it was outstanding in Manager Mode, all hope is not lost for Tib just waning.

[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by bucky60

Why do you think that the demographic of "I don't like sports, I don't like football" would be a viable demographic for EA to spend resources on? That's the example you gave. Try and expand your audience to those that makes sense to try and expand on. How many of the "I don't like football" audience do you really think EA will be able to capture? The Show is accessible but not at the expense of reasonable realism. You don't have to know baseball inside and out to have "fun" with The Show, yet it's praised for it's realism.

Thats not the only demo. There are more people in the "I like the NFL but dont know what hot routes, bump and run and A gaps are" demo then in the hardcore demo that resides at OS. That demo doesnt care about realistic lineman interaction/wr/db interaction/linebackers hitting the right gap. They dont care about the lack of pass interference penalties. I'm not saying that they would object to EA make those improvements. I'm just saying that those arent things that will sell them on a game.

Also and this isnt a shot at you Bucky but I'm sick of people here acting as if Madden has no realism. Like we are playing Mutant League Football or something. The game isnt as realistic as the Show or NBA 2k can be (they only reach the realism threshold with slider tweaks and ratings adjustments) but it is somewhat realistic.

[CM Hooe]

Quote: Originally Posted by bucky60

How many of the "I don't like football" audience do you really think EA will be able to capture?

You're focusing way too much on this.

The point is to make an engaging video game which will grab consumers regardless of content. That Tiburon has the NFL brand automatically grabs an audience - those who like to play NFL football - but that doesn't mean that they can't expand the pool of potential customers to those who aren't a part of that audience. Part of the reason Ultimate Team exists - outside of being a micro transaction engine - is to add a collectible card game component into Madden, thus creating a game that is both a sports game and a resource-management game within a game, thus creating a total package which appeals to more people beyond only those who want to play NFL football.

Coming at it from another angle - why is Tiburon is spending so much time expanding the Madden Skills Trainer? I think it's rather obvious that these things exist it's to teach people who haven't played Madden or football before how to play the video game that is Madden NFL, so that the barrier of entry to sports games - which is very high to those not familiar with the sport for multiple reasons - may be lowered, thus more people may become interested in and buy the game.

Speaking more personally with respect to games with engaging mechanics - I don't particularly enjoy the sport of racing, yet I have a ton of fun with Forza Motorsport because it's a well-designed video game. I don't particularly enjoy puzzle games but Portal is one of the most elegantly-designed and engaging games I've ever played. When a studio designs a good game, the genre doesn't really matter; people will play it because it's a good game.

[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by totalpoop

i really dont agree with your statement here at all, you're making a huge generalization, no one is saying that Tiburon shouldn't try to expand it's customer base with features like the tackling cone, the gauntlet, etc. to reel in customers but its a given that any company will always strive to expand its customer base annually. at the same time, i think the point everyone here is trying to make is that why isn't madden trying to help retain it's existing customer base who buy this game every year. from my perspective you're saying those two things are mutually exclusive and EA/Tiburon simply doesnt have the resources to tackle both objectives in the same cycle. NBA did it, and even FORCED virtual currency in the franchise mode, still i had no gripes with it! make it financially viable but at the same time enjoyable and re-playable. i completely understand that EA/Tiburon is a company looking to profit from their video games, but i also understand when you make a terrible product year after year you're probably going to lose customers.

You are the first person I've heard who was OK with that. That **** has me so upset I'm hoping Live has a decent enough game that I dont have to consider buying 2k15. That decision by 2k was one of the worst I've ever seen.

[totalpoop]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

You are the first person I've heard who was OK with that. That **** has me so upset I'm hoping Live has a decent enough game that I dont have to consider buying 2k15. That decision by 2k was one of the worst I've ever seen.

was it ridiculous to force customers to pay for something as simple as adjusting your line up? sure it was but would i say that it was totally unreasonable for them to do it, not necessarily. sports games and video games in general are headed in the direction that microtransactions are almost expected to be there, but i haven't paid a single dollar for VC in that game and had no problems winning championships in 2k14.

i'm also pretty sure they give you something like 5,000 VC when you first start the game, and an iOS app that would give you 1,000 VC every 24 hours.

[jpdavis82]

Quote: Originally Posted by Danimal

Ok well all he exactly said was they continue to work on the game post E3, that's a revelation to no one anywhere. He didn't exactly say "We improved player movement" Perspective has nothing to do with it, you asked him a specific question which he did not answer. There is no perspective in that.

I understand but he would have said no we didn't get to those things or something like that, he says it a lot to my questions.


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[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

Only to the extent that the gameplay is engaging. I never said the two facets were mutually exclusive, just that the means by which the user interacts with the game is always going to get priority. The average video game player - not you, but the average video game player - is going to care more about his personal gameplay responsibilities moreso than anything the AI is doing. If Tiburon is designing their game with no intention of capturing new customers and no intention of increasing their profit margin on producing the software, they are doing something extremely wrong. Why would a game studio want to intentionally narrow its target demographic with a product? Why wouldn't the studio want to try to make its game appealing to those who haven't previously had any interest in the series so they can make more money?

In some post in another thread there was someone that stated something like they knew people that wouldn't play NBA2k because the controls schemes was too complicated, even though those games have tutorials. Now you're belaboring the point that more interactive control schemes where the User is able to micro manage is a priority for a video game over the AI handling it. What is evident is that there is no one "right" way to institute a control scheme in a simulation video game because gamers have varying preferences for how to play/interact with games, that can change, so again, the best approach to control schemes are options.

The issue or perplexing thing unique to Madden, in comparison to other top sports sim video games, is that even though it's intended to be a simulation video game, a FACT, that you often try to talk around or dismiss, Tiburon often seems to attempt to supersede or bypass applicable real world elements instead of replicating/emulating them, even when those elements have already been replicated/emulated well, by general consensus, in other games. That's poor design for creating a simulation video game, may make perfect sense for some other kind of video game but for a simulation video game, it's counter productive.

Let's call it like it is man, every piece of software played on gaming hardware are "video games", so please stop it with that, the descriptor that sets the expectation for which a video game's quality is judged by is it's genre, which in Madden's case is clearly defined as a football simulation. Using your position that "it's a video game first" then Madden could just ignore football all together too and spend an entire dev cycle creating a Racing Kart mode, with full NFL/NFLPA licenses/players. That's good general video game design because people that like Mario Kart would never buy Madden for football but it's quite ridiculous considering Madden is a football simulation video game, so again, can we please have a reasonable discussion.