I'm Lactose Intolerant - Hold the Cheddar and Swiss please: The Good Games Thread

[ManiacMatt1782]

No off ball d isnt cheese, infact a good defensive player will stay off ball in screens and passes, and lock up his man that just passed the ball beffore switching off.

[SpacialJones]

well in screens when your on ball you can make yourself go over or under so i dont really see that making it legit.... and in passes you dont need to go off ball either this year... u have control of your hands... so that doesnt validate it either....

[chia51]

Quote: Originally Posted by SpacialJones

well in screens when your on ball you can make yourself go over or under so i dont really see that making it legit....

That is called hedging or showing in real life, (info: you can set this in the defensive assignments screen)But even then sometimes the cpu still plays it incorrectly. So by manually doing it, its really no different than if the cpu had done it properly in the first place. Take advantage of the switch on D there should be a mismatch, and if they try to switch back out of position, make them pay with either a 3 or again a cut by the F/C to the rack for an easy lay/dunk/foul. Its called basketball fundamentals.

Playing off ball (on the screen/pick) in this situation is not cheese because it is a real life basketball defensive tactic.

Quote: Originally Posted by SpacialJones

and in passes you dont need to go off ball either this year... u have control of your hands... so that doesnt validate it either....

This is called playing the passing lane or jumping the pass, there are many names for this but that's besides the point. This is what happens when you get an aggressive defender, don't always pass the same way, make him pay with a backdoor cut, dribble over to the guy for a handoff/closer pass, don't do the same thing and not expect the defense to know what your doing and adjust.

But playing the passing lane is not cheese because, again, it is a real life basketball defensive tactic.

[DukeC]

Quote: Originally Posted by chia51

That is called hedging or showing in real life, (info: you can set this in the defensive assignments screen)But even then sometimes the cpu still plays it incorrectly. So by manually doing it, its really no different than if the cpu had done it properly in the first place. Take advantage of the switch on D there should be a mismatch, and if they try to switch back out of position, make them pay with either a 3 or again a cut by the F/C to the rack for an easy lay/dunk/foul. Its called basketball fundamentals. Playing off ball (on the screen/pick) in this situation is not cheese because it is a real life basketball defensive tactic. This is called playing the passing lane or jumping the pass, there are many names for this but that's besides the point. This is what happens when you get an aggressive defender, don't always pass the same way, make him pay with a backdoor cut, dribble over to the guy for a handoff/closer pass, don't do the same thing and not expect the defense to know what your doing and adjust. But playing the passing lane is not cheese because, again, it is a real life basketball defensive tactic.

I've had some people complain I play the passing lanes too much. What am I supposed to do? Play tight defense against a guard that can't shoot? Or against a guard you haven't taken a shot with all game? No, I'm going to dare you to take the three instead of a higher percentage bucket. Do I get burned? Of course I do, and then I adjustment once I make sure it's not a fluke. It just seems like a crutch to me (To not play the passing lanes).

On another note turnaround post shots are only unstoppable in the right hands. If you have a good post player, and you know they are good with turnarounds...why would you not use that? It's the equivalent of not taking advantage of a good slasher like a Tyreke Evans or D-Rose in order to get into the paint and reek havoc. Especially if you have a guard that can't keep up with them.

In this game it's all about defensive adjustments. Don't like the fact Randolph or West is abusing you in the post? Double them. Don't like the fact that Tyreke and Rose are able to get into the paint at will? Put your best defender on them, and in some cases, straight up double them and force someone else to beat you.

On another note, what do you guys think about manual backdoor alleyoops (IE, using the "Cut to the basket" button)? From what I've seen they work about 50% of the time depending on the passer, and whether or not the C or PF is near the rim.

[kevroman]

System: 360
Gamertag: MrPapageorgio3
Team: Any
Location: San Diego, CA

[chia51]

Quote: Originally Posted by DukeC

On another note, what do you guys think about manual backdoor alleyoops (IE, using the "Cut to the basket" button)? From what I've seen they work about 50% of the time depending on the passer, and whether or not the C or PF is near the rim.

Not at all, if its there use it. Make the D pay for being out of position. The only time I can see that being 'cheesey' is if you run it 20+ times or so. Again, subject to the 'rule' "if it's there". That is how I see it.

In real life, CP3 would throw quite a few to Chandler when he was there. Is that cheese? There have been games where CP3-Chandler would have like 5+ alleys, not cheese.

Cheese is something like taking advantage of a glitch. You can play cheesy, which is basically not playing realistically. If your playing realistically or 'sim' as some call it, is basically playing the game of basketball... and knowing how to play basketball and how to use mismatches, etc... is the next step from being a player to becoming a great player in 2k12.

You have to know what you are doing in order to be great at basketball or 2k12.

All of this is no different than the Spurs using Timmy against a poor defender, that is not cheese, its smart. Put a better defender and make Timmy do something different.

[DukeC]

Quote: Originally Posted by chia51

Not at all, if its there use it. Make the D pay for being out of position. The only time I can see that being 'cheesey' is if you run it 20+ times or so. Again, subject to the 'rule' "if it's there". That is how I see it. In real life, CP3 would throw quite a few to Chandler when he was there. Is that cheese? There have been games where CP3-Chandler would have like 5+ alleys, not cheese. Cheese is something like taking advantage of a glitch. You can play cheesy, which is basically not playing realistically. If your playing realistically or 'sim' as some call it, is basically playing the game of basketball... and knowing how to play basketball and how to use mismatches, etc... is the next step from being a player to becoming a great player in 2k12. You have to know what you are doing in order to be great at basketball or 2k12. All of this is no different than the Spurs using Timmy against a poor defender, that is not cheese, its smart. Put a better defender and make Timmy do something different.

That's what I do. I'll use it sporadically every now and then when I have an advantage on numbers.

What is your take on using zone defense (2-3 and 3-2)? I've found that it completely breaks plays involving anyone that has to post up. When I say it breaks, I mean the post player will literally be unable to get into post position. Of course the point guard lobs the ball and it gets stolen.

I later adjusted and started attacking the paint on every play but by that point he'd built a 15 point lead. He wasn't cheesing, but I was in disbelief that it could completely ruin the post that way so I kept lobbing it in there like an idiot, hoping that Cousins would get into post position. It never happened over 40+ minutes.

[SpacialJones]

i know the basketball terms so... i dont really appreciate your tone. i was just asking a question... but there's also a difference between playing off ball during pick & roll and situations then playing off ball in every instance.. in my humble opinion i looked at it as lack of stick skills. ive played off ball during some pick and roll but i myself am more of a physical defender, i want to play you on an angle stop where ever your going and switch where ever the ball goes. but i understand what the terms are and the like sir.. thank you but thats neither here nor there. just wanted to see what fellas thought not trying to knock any at all.