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Madden's future of CFM is alarming

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Old 09-13-2017, 08:46 AM   #89
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Re: Madden's future of CFM is alarming

@msdm27,

The game has some serious things that need to improve to keep me purchasing it.

By no means is the CPU AI acceptable in it's current state.

However with all that being said, I am finding ways to have a highly enjoyable experience because:

1 This is the hand I was dealt

2 I love football

3 The game is not some horrid mess like some doomsayers would lead you to believe

4 Franchise mode is not some horrible mess like doomsayers would lead to you to believe.

I am highly objectionable.

I give this game 6.5 out of 10 this year.

That is a very fair grade.

Where almost every ounce of resource for 19 should go is clearly CPU AI

I rather the CPU AI be top notch on 19 and still have the exact same CFM, then getting a bunch of more simulation features for a game that is clearly not simulation in its current state of gameplay due to some piss poor CPU play.

You gotta have the gameplay vs the CPU be top notch first.

Go play The Show and NBA2K

You will understand what I mean.

It's a whole other level.



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Old 09-13-2017, 09:11 AM   #90
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Re: Madden's future of CFM is alarming

Part of me agrees with you Sword as I really want the CPU AI fixed, but I can't use that as an excuse for EA to not make significant improvements to CFM. Granted while the current CFM is somewhat serviceable, it's very bland and needs more features.

I would be fine with 3 upgrades from Deuce's list for next year ALONG with the CPU AI being fixed. That would sell me.
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Old 09-13-2017, 09:13 AM   #91
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Re: Madden's future of CFM is alarming

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheba2011
It doesn't really matter who was in charge of franchise mode this year. They just didn't have the resources needed to devote time to it.
Resources can be bought. A decision was made not to devote resources to it.
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Old 09-13-2017, 09:24 AM   #92
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Re: Madden's future of CFM is alarming

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armor and Sword
@msdm27,

The game has some serious things that need to improve to keep me purchasing it.

By no means is the CPU AI acceptable in it's current state.

However with all that being said, I am finding ways to have a highly enjoyable experience because:

1 This is the hand I was dealt

2 I love football

3 The game is not some horrid mess like some doomsayers would lead you to believe

4 Franchise mode is not some horrible mess like doomsayers would lead to you to believe.

I am highly objectionable.

I give this game 6.5 out of 10 this year.

That is a very fair grade.

Where almost every ounce of resource for 19 should go is clearly CPU AI

I rather the CPU AI be top notch on 19 and still have the exact same CFM, then getting a bunch of more simulation features for a game that is clearly not simulation in its current state of gameplay due to some piss poor CPU play.

You gotta have the gameplay vs the CPU be top notch first.

Go play The Show and NBA2K

You will understand what I mean.

It's a whole other level.



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Add cpu ai in running the franchise as well as gameplay and i am with you. And punting, the punting is just mind boggling. They said they had it fixed last year only to tell usit wasnt important enough to be included with each patch and here we stand.
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Old 09-13-2017, 09:28 AM   #93
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Re: Madden's future of CFM is alarming

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armor and Sword
@msdm27,

The game has some serious things that need to improve to keep me purchasing it.

By no means is the CPU AI acceptable in it's current state.

However with all that being said, I am finding ways to have a highly enjoyable experience because:

1 This is the hand I was dealt

2 I love football

3 The game is not some horrid mess like some doomsayers would lead you to believe

4 Franchise mode is not some horrible mess like doomsayers would lead to you to believe.

I am highly objectionable.

I give this game 6.5 out of 10 this year.

That is a very fair grade.

Where almost every ounce of resource for 19 should go is clearly CPU AI

I rather the CPU AI be top notch on 19 and still have the exact same CFM, then getting a bunch of more simulation features for a game that is clearly not simulation in its current state of gameplay due to some piss poor CPU play.

You gotta have the gameplay vs the CPU be top notch first.

Go play The Show and NBA2K

You will understand what I mean.

It's a whole other level.



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I do play both those games, which is why I know it is possible to have it better than what Madden provides. It is possible to improve gameplay and franchise together.

Improving CPU AI is a different entity to improving CFM, one is not exclusive to the other so that argument carries little weight for me. If we're talking about AI team management (which is not what Clint has referred to before) then I'm on board with it being inherent to CFM.

I agree a 1000% (as a 32 team control/offline gamer only) that better CPU AI both for gameplay and team management is the #1 thing missing from CFM.

I'm also on the same boat as you from points 1 to 3, when we get to point 4 though..... we part ways there. CFM is not a "horrid mess" but when you set such a low bar of expectations then it actually says something about the game itself.

CFM is not a good game mode, you enjoy it (play it) in spite of it being lackluster because gameplay is good. Gameplay should not be the argument for giving CFM a pass or acting as if it's a good game mode.

And please don't get me wrong. I believe you will agree with this: IMAGINATION is the #1 requisit for enjoying a franchise mode. Even for MyLeague, which is the most customizable franchise experience ever.

No matter how deep a game mode is it will always fall short to reality, so it is up to the gamer to create scenarios that provide enjoyment and immersion, the game's AI can only do so much.

However, when the game's AI does so little that is basically forces you to control all 32 teams unless you want to play againsts toddler AI GM's, that where it starts getting out of hand. That's where Madden is right now.

If someone decides to play a solo online or offline CFM, he/she does it with the understanding that you're walking into a whacko-world. Imagination only goes so far.

*EDIT:
To finish the argument, by your own logic: If Madden is a 6.5/10 next year too (there is NO guarantee that AI will be improved), you'd likely also keep finding ways to enjoy it; that would not negate the fact that the current state / future of CFM is alarming.

Last edited by msdm27; 09-13-2017 at 09:31 AM.
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Old 09-13-2017, 09:39 AM   #94
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Re: Madden's future of CFM is alarming

Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskins04
Part of me agrees with you Sword as I really want the CPU AI fixed, but I can't use that as an excuse for EA to not make significant improvements to CFM. Granted while the current CFM is somewhat serviceable, it's very bland and needs more features.

I would be fine with 3 upgrades from Deuce's list for next year ALONG with the CPU AI being fixed. That would sell me.
It is not an excuse.....it is called priority.

If EA felt said we have ex amount of resources and you need to choose:

CPU AI

More features on CFM

For Madden 19......to me the overwhelming answer on Operation Sports should be CPU AI.

If the gameplay is not where it should be....who gives a rats *** about a pretty franchise mode.

I mean think about that?

Re-playability starts with top notch gameplay. Always.

And again I guess the expectations of CFM are very high.......it needs improvements. But is far from “unplayable”

If the Tony Bruno Show were playing in the background of this Franchise mode......people would be like “wow”. I am serious. I played Madden 2005 and 2007 to death...In fact I played Madden 2007 all the way to Madden 10 on the PS3.....then ran back to it after I played Madden 10 with it’s stripped down franchise mode and overrated gameplay (to this day I think that game get’s so much praise when I personally thought it was not up to the standards of Madden 2005 and 2007....not even close).And they had micro transactions for their so called franchise mode that year!!! As well as on Madden 11!!

Anyway......I want a more robust franchise mode. But I think a lot of loud posters here are getting the priority list wrong for Madden 19.

It really needs to be CPU AI first and foremost and IMO it is huge undertaking for them to code and re-program this game to really compete with AI like The Show and NBA 2K.

That is my real wish......then, they can get franchise mode more up to snuff with a refresh. But in it’s current state....it is not nearly as bad as the forum seems to make it out to be.

I mean let’s be real here. Franchise mode on the PS3 Era including another vastly overrated title (Madden 12 where gameplay was horrid compared to Madden 16,17 and 18) was garbage. Pure sterile, lifeless garbage.

CFM on Madden 13, 25 and 15 to me was also buggy and a work in progress but on 16 and then 17 it really improved on it’s foundation.

The issue is a lot of gamers here that are pounding sand hate the XP system. Well.....that is the system EA has for CFM. I don’t think they are scraping it. If they do.....they better replace it with something amazing. Because it works. 32 man online franchises are thriving IMO.

As a solo offline franchise guy.....I am making it work for me (with house rules) with no issues.

The biggest area of opportunity for franchise mode is a true dynamic injury system and a vastly better presentation package in terms of news around the league (a weekly highlight show) and also game breaks (we are getting there as they do talk about games around he league on the ticker and are also talking about resigned players this year during your season). Immersion is critical and far reaching.

They are not looking to make this some super deep franchise mode......I just don’t see that.

Player roles returning would be great. Position battles would be great....these are easy to implement I would think.

But they are not overhauling this mode.

Start with CPU AI. Make it the best it can possible be with the power we have on this console. Add in better presentation elements within franchise mode and the games we play (hell the draft is actually good IMO with Adam Shefter and the draft classes and storylines with players). And that will go a long way to making the “Franchise” experience that much better.

It's not bad...and that is where I differ with some of you. This is a mode that for the most part (and with our intervention as with all other franchise modes across other sports games, let’s get real here) works and allows me to enjoy season after season of Madden (I play every game and do not use play the moments or sim). I typically get through 5 seasons before I want a change.

Can it be better....absolutely and it should be!!!

But that’s me...I can make it work. But I am done doing that moving forward. Madden 19 needs to blow me away on CPU AI and Franchise mode improvements. If the CPU AI is overhauled.....that will go a long way in making the game a lot better.
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Last edited by Armor and Sword; 09-13-2017 at 09:45 AM.
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Old 09-13-2017, 09:43 AM   #95
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Re: Madden's future of CFM is alarming

Quote:
Originally Posted by msdm27
I do play both those games, which is why I know it is possible to have it better than what Madden provides. It is possible to improve gameplay and franchise together.

Improving CPU AI is a different entity to improving CFM, one is not exclusive to the other so that argument carries little weight for me. If we're talking about AI team management (which is not what Clint has referred to before) then I'm on board with it being inherent to CFM.

I agree a 1000% (as a 32 team control/offline gamer only) that better CPU AI both for gameplay and team management is the #1 thing missing from CFM.

I'm also on the same boat as you from points 1 to 3, when we get to point 4 though..... we part ways there. CFM is not a "horrid mess" but when you set such a low bar of expectations then it actually says something about the game itself.

CFM is not a good game mode, you enjoy it (play it) in spite of it being lackluster because gameplay is good. Gameplay should not be the argument for giving CFM a pass or acting as if it's a good game mode.

And please don't get me wrong. I believe you will agree with this: IMAGINATION is the #1 requisit for enjoying a franchise mode. Even for MyLeague, which is the most customizable franchise experience ever.

No matter how deep a game mode is it will always fall short to reality, so it is up to the gamer to create scenarios that provide enjoyment and immersion, the game's AI can only do so much.

However, when the game's AI does so little that is basically forces you to control all 32 teams unless you want to play againsts toddler AI GM's, that where it starts getting out of hand. That's where Madden is right now.

If someone decides to play a solo online or offline CFM, he/she does it with the understanding that you're walking into a whacko-world. Imagination only goes so far.

*EDIT:
To finish the argument, by your own logic: If Madden is a 6.5/10 next year too (there is NO guarantee that AI will be improved), you'd likely also keep finding ways to enjoy it; that would not negate the fact that the current state / future of CFM is alarming.

We are on the same page......and I am not trying to make excuses for EA. And I can assure you if this game is a 6.5/10 next season.....absolute pass from me. I have zero plans on purchasing Madden on release day next year.

I am going to sit back and wait and wait and wait some more till I get true confirmation things have dramatically changed.

I also agree that franchise and AI can be improved at the same time.....but it seems to me like AI has barely been touched......I mean it is virtually the same since M25.

It really needs a true overhaul.
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Old 09-13-2017, 09:44 AM   #96
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Re: Madden's future of CFM is alarming

Quote:
Originally Posted by mykelmosinee
It's about talent.
Live sucks because the devs don't have the talent to make it a great single player mode.
Madden's CFM sucks because they don't have the talent to make it great.
Again, you get what you pay for. How much experience to the devs at EA have? Are they pulling talented people from other companies, or hiring kids fresh out of computer schools?
Do the people in charge have the passion and desire like the 2k honchos do?
I would venture to say no to the above. They're getting exactly what they're paying for talent-wise.

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It is not just talent. It is the fact that they made the conscious decision to pull people from other areas to work on NBA Live and Longshot. They had to decide which area of the game to sacrifice, and the chose franchise mode. That they consciously decided to ignore franchise mode in order to help NBA Live was the final nail in the coffin for me.

NBA 2k not only embarrassed NBA Live to the point of temporary extinction, but they also put a bullseye on EA in general with how dull EA's sports titles have become. EA responded in the WORST way possible. As opposed to hiring new people full time to work annually on Longshot and NBA Live, they instead saved a quick buck and killed franchise mode for a year.

This goes to show the dedication that EA has for Longshots, NBA Live, and any sports video games. Sports titles have become the basement at EA and we are witnessing it first hand.

It is reasons like this EA was voted the Worst Company in the world two years in a row by the consumerist.
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