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Old 04-09-2013, 02:50 PM   #201
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

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Originally Posted by Hyperballer21
I have adjusted hotspots. I get a good amount of 3pt shots as well, but they are usually open looks through a play, or shooters spotting up in the corner. My goal is to get the game to be dynamic in regards to when a player would pull up from 3.

As for Melo, I don't have HIS midrange and 3pt at 100, I have the game sliders at 100 for each. His mid range and 3pt are at 50 in my roster.
That's what I thought you were saying, but I wanted to make sure. Have you experimented with the Pull Up Tendency? From what I've seen, it mainly effects Mid-Range shots but it may effect 3's, as well.
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Old 04-09-2013, 03:01 PM   #202
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

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Originally Posted by slimm44
That's what I thought you were saying, but I wanted to make sure. Have you experimented with the Pull Up Tendency? From what I've seen, it mainly effects Mid-Range shots but it may effect 3's, as well.
That is what I plan on working on next. I have created a scale that I am going to test:

00 - low shot tendency, low shot of dribble ability
25 - low shot tendency, medium shot of dribble ability
50 - medium shot tendency, medium shot of dribble ability
75 - high shot tendency, medium shot of dribble ability
99 - high shot tendency, high shot of dribble ability
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Old 04-09-2013, 03:21 PM   #203
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by slimm44
That's what I thought you were saying, but I wanted to make sure. Have you experimented with the Pull Up Tendency? From what I've seen, it mainly effects Mid-Range shots but it may effect 3's, as well.
And if you want to see those sexy looking "I'ma just step back in bust a three in ya grill" animations raise shoot from triple threat along with the pull up slider. Also 50 is kind of a low 3pt tendency for Carmelo but given your sliders I understand.
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Old 04-09-2013, 03:29 PM   #204
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

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Originally Posted by bigtreydawg
And if you want to see those sexy looking "I'ma just step back in bust a three in ya grill" animations raise shoot from triple threat along with the pull up slider. Also 50 is kind of a low 3pt tendency for Carmelo but given your sliders I understand.
Yea i have every highly-skilled Shot Creator at 99 triple threat shot and pull up above 50. You get some really nice shots off the dribble like that.
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Old 04-09-2013, 04:13 PM   #205
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

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Originally Posted by slimm44
I agree about more passing with DTL at 0. I think it's because the AI limits what a player is able to do in a given space of time. Usually, in FL, a player has the following options - spot up, set a pick, use a pick, ISO, set a screen, use a screen, cut to the basket, post up, take a shot, or pass. In my roster, the only available options are - spot up, set a pick, use a pick, cut to the basket, post up, take a shot, or pass.

When you eliminate cut to the basket by setting Give and Go and DTL to 0, it cuts the options to spot up, set pick, use pick, post up, take a shot, or pass, and most players don't have the option to post up. I think we can both agree this not only leads to better ball movement but also more court spacing and the lane being clogged less.
This thread moves too fast sometimes. I will start up a blog on things we unanimously agree on soon.

The lane being clogged less is awesome which leads me to think back door cutting is one of the huge factors in points in the paint.

I got a little ancy on my testing and moved DTL to 0 and implemented your shooting and freelance scale at the time. Ill do another test tonight with DTL back at 100.

With play vision on here is what I will look for:

When a play breaks down, if Dwayne Wade or whoever ball handler makes a mad dash for the hoop then you have to agree with me to some extent that this is an on ball tendency.

Attack the basket (the one in the tendencies). The discription for this slider has the disclaimer of "after penetration", this leads me to think it is either/or on what a player will do once he drives. I don't think this determines "if" he drives. But I look forward to testing it.

Again everyone thanks for the brainstorm.

Last edited by bigtreydawg; 04-09-2013 at 04:22 PM.
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Old 04-09-2013, 04:28 PM   #206
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

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Originally Posted by bigtreydawg
This thread moves too fast sometimes. I will start up a blog on things we unanimously agree on soon.

The lane being clogged less is awesome which leads me to think back door cutting is one of the huge factors in points in the paint.

I got a little ancy on my testing and moved DTL to 0 and implemented your shooting and freelance scale at the time. Ill do another test tonight with DTL back at 100.

With play vision on here is what I will look for:

When a play breaks down, if Dwayne Wade or whoever ball handler makes a mad dash for the hoop then you have to agree with me to some extent that this is an on ball tendency.

Attack the basket (the one in the tendencies). The discription for this slider has the disclaimer of "after penetration", this leads me to think it is either on what a player will do once he drives. I don't think this determines "if" he drives. But I look forward to testing it.

Again everyone thanks for the brainstorm.
Are you still testing on All Star? Also, have you zero'd out Attack the Basket and Pull Up? If not, just for testing purposes, I think you should. If you have those zero'd you will have a better chance at only seeing the influences that DTL has as well as how a player will behave after the drive is initiated.

I agree with you to an extent on your illustration regarding Wade, but I think it also depends on a few things:

1. When did the play break down? Was it after a dead ball/made shot or turnover/rebound? I believe the AI behaves differently based on those two types of scenarios. After a dead ball/made shot, if the play breaks down, the AI appears to go into a "controlled" FL mode where the players seem to do what they're told to do by tendencies. After a turnover/rebound, if a play is called and then broken, I think players are more likely to go into crazy-attack mode and try to get to the rim at all costs.

Sometimes it seems like the AI is hardcoded to do this, possibly as a way to ensure that teams don't wait until the end of the shot-clock (like 2k12) to take shots.

2. The second factor that I've seen is how far into the shot clock a team is. At the end of the shot clock, I believe players (again, regardless of ratings) are programmed to REALLY try to get to the rim.

3. The third factor is how difficulty levels effect the behavior of CPU players. I believe that the higher you go, the more aggressive they become.

Hopefully, these two ideas are false, the behavior is not based on AI that we can't control, and we can correct the behavior with tendency/slider fixes.
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Last edited by slimm44; 04-09-2013 at 04:36 PM.
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Old 04-09-2013, 05:20 PM   #207
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

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Originally Posted by slimm44
Are you still testing on All Star? Also, have you zero'd out Attack the Basket and Pull Up? If not, just for testing purposes, I think you should. If you have those zero'd you will have a better chance at only seeing the influences that DTL has as well as how a player will behave after the drive is initiated.

I agree with you to an extent on your illustration regarding Wade, but I think it also depends on a few things:

1. When did the play break down? Was it after a dead ball/made shot or turnover/rebound? I believe the AI behaves differently based on those two types of scenarios. After a dead ball/made shot, if the play breaks down, the AI appears to go into a "controlled" FL mode where the players seem to do what they're told to do by tendencies. After a turnover/rebound, if a play is called and then broken, I think players are more likely to go into crazy-attack mode and try to get to the rim at all costs.

Sometimes it seems like the AI is hardcoded to do this, possibly as a way to ensure that teams don't wait until the end of the shot-clock (like 2k12) to take shots.

2. The second factor that I've seen is how far into the shot clock a team is. At the end of the shot clock, I believe players (again, regardless of ratings) are programmed to REALLY try to get to the rim.

3. The third factor is how difficulty levels effect the behavior of CPU players. I believe that the higher you go, the more aggressive they become.

Hopefully, these two ideas are false, the behavior is not based on AI that we can't control, and we can correct the behavior with tendency/slider fixes.
I will zero out attack the basket and pull up and watch/play another few games with drive at 0. I'm still playing on all star for the time being because I find pro to easy. Though now that I know that the computer is at a disadvantage (coefficients thread) I will make the necessary changes and switch to Pro.

I completely agree that the computer gets aggressive (rather unintelligently at times) towards the end of the shot clock so I will factor that in.

I'm also gonna try what I PMd you about with Lebron in order to get him to shoot more 3s without sliders.
The problem with the Heat's point in the paint (there's a few issues) seems to be that Lebron is a big scary monster that knows how to fly. If I can get him to shoot more 3s and more (situationally appropiate) midrange jumpers than that should at least get points in the paint into the 40s

Last edited by bigtreydawg; 04-09-2013 at 05:33 PM.
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Old 04-09-2013, 08:37 PM   #208
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

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Originally Posted by bigtreydawg
Basically someone raised Russell Westbrook close shot to 100 and set Durants to 10. In the coach profile he raised take close shot (I believe) to 100 and the result was 7/8 of the plays being called for Westbrook despite the fact Durant had a similar touch rating.

I can personally attest to seeing this when I was tinkering with the Utah Jazz. I wanted to see more 3s from Hornececk so I raised the 3pt slider while lowering the close and inside slider (coach profile). This resulted in more 3pt plays being called for Hornececk despite his low touch rating. Now Karl Malone was still very much involved in the offense. It's just that instead of low post plays there were a lot more pick and roll plays.
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Let me also add this. I haven't seen the Coaching Profiles Shot location Tendencies effect plays that are called at all.
I have made the coach profiles shot locations test.

However,I have not said that the shot locations valors affect which play is going to be called but which PLAYER is going to have more plays called.

Take bigtreydawg's exemple.
He has raised the "coach profile take 3" for th Jazz and more plays were called for Hornacek.Because Jeff has an high 3pt tendency and a touches valor between 50/70 (am I right bigtreydawg???).
The cpu still called plays for Malone because his high touches valor but Jeff became more involved in the offense.

Also,have you tried to test a game or a quarter with all coach profiles shot locations at 0???
I did it with the Thunder,Westbrook and KD both with 100 touches:many plays started with Westbrook that went to the corner and gave the ball to Perkins in the low post.With of course a shot of the Thunder center...

Ah wait,one time with call plays at 0 and after with valors above 50.
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