LXXVII Spawn III: Game Over (See Post 4507)

[Barkeep49]

There is a bevy of activity in the infirmary. First bulletsponge calls in PackersFanatic to help treat that festering wound. As this goes on, path calls in hoopsguy. Some of the crew holds their breath waiting to find out who, if either, will emerge from that examination. And in the end both do.

[PackerFanatic]

I assume we are still going to want to take that final mission tomorrow though...especially since we have to fix the engines first anyway. And 4 extra isn't much.

Still sweet though!

[Chubby]

Lynch Marc Vaughn

more to come...

[Passacaglia]

Right. Since you and PackerFanatic were exhausted Night 1, you guys are probably not the spawn that doesn't get exhausted. That leaves claphamsa, The Jackal, LoneStarGirl, and Chubby.

Check that -- I don't see in the rules anywhere about a spawn that never gets exhausted -- it's just that a spawn has a low chance of getting exhausted. So we're back to the six.

[Tyrith]

Render, it's because of the stupid no lynch thing. I think no lynch yesterday, and especially today, is completely and totally wrong. Not doing anything when it comes to the ship, but when it comes to the funda mental game of Werewolf underneath.

People not doing anything suspicious is a large part of the game -- that's what I'm afraid of, have ALWAYS been afraid of in WW, is that people that talk = people that get lynched. Kill the UTRs, that's my motto.

[jeheinz72]

My gut feeling is that he was going to go after Render and then had to change directions when Schmidty cleared Render.... as Schmidty threw him a curve ball.. but that was my gut feeling that I was trying to not say in thread <.< :)

Mine too Alan, actually. I just stopped short of saying he actually typed it all up with RendeR in there, realized his mistake and called the audible, forgetting to re-enter the info with Telle.

[LoneStarGirl]

Let me just say, I feel bad for the people that can't be online and checking this almost all the time during the day. I went to lunch for an hour and had two pages to read, I can't imagine having to read 6,7,8 at a time, all the time.

And also, for the record, this game is pretty sweet :)

stop sucking up to the gm nerd :D

[hoopsguy]

Here's my breakdown of hoops vs Telle

Known Spawn odds

Telle - 25% as of when hoops tailed here (staring 15% + 10% from first mission). 35% of Spawn at the moment, 45% of Spawnling+ at the moment

Hoops - 15% starting odds, 25% at Spawnling+

Expeditions

Telle - 2 successful explorations. 16 Crys in today's mission, with the less trusted scientist (figuring Packer is less trusted than LSG, though close if any difference)

Hoops - 1 sub-par mission of 9 Crys

Really, the Expedition weight for me isn't heavy. Worth noting.



Now, for me, this whole thing boils down to gains. I bring it back to how would hoops act in each case, Survivor vs Spawn.

In the case of Survivor, I don't see hoops who we generally all believe is a great villager to come after me (a vital role at the moment it happened) with little more than a gut feeling, come after Render (who happens to be the person above him on the food chain), come after Danny (also an Engineer) and now Telle (an officer). I don't see him making 4 pretty big flails when, if he's a Survivor, hoops knows that he just has to wait patiently for an eventual path scan to clear him. I don't think he plays it that agressively.

Now, in the case of hoops as Spawn. I think he absolutely plays it agressively. I think he knows he's going to get scanned, and I think if he dies via the scan, that's ok to him since it at the moment while we can get a new doctor, we can't verify the cleanliness of them. I think hoops came AWFUL close to getting lynched yesterday. I think he takes his shot here with Telle, trumps up a story in a manner that no matter her response he can make it appear as though she's lying. He gets himself into a 1-on-1 situation knowing there are 3 outcomes

A) He gets scanned, which he's probably ok with (better than lynched)
B) He wins the 1-on-1, takes out an officer before he goes
C) He gets lynched, which was a plausible possibility going into today anyhow.

You have my approach backwards. I'm much more aggressive as a villager than a wolf. Everything else you say afterwards is based on a faulty starting assumption, to the point that I'm not even bothering to read it.

[RendeR]

Why not Schmidty and KWhit? And I can only put 4 in the brig.


Gah, only putting 4 in the brig sucks bigtime, its makes clearing further people pretty useless doesn't it?

[bulletsponge]

Lynch Marc Vaughn

more to come...

thats good enough for me

Vote Lynch Marc Vaughn

[LoneStarGirl]

It wasn't the crux of my argument, but I believe I saw multiple people say they would base their vote on it.

The fact that LSG was on Hoops' mission also plays into the result though.

What does that mean? It was my first mission to go on

[PackerFanatic]

Thanks bullet for the heal.

[hoopsguy]

This is sort of my thinking too. The other scenario is that they're both Spawn and Hoops knows that they are both likely lost causes. Hoops because of yesterday and because he is always a likely early scan candidate. Telle because she's gone out on the most away missions and has the biggest chance of being a convert.

So maybe Hoops figures he can become trusted by "outing" a spawn today and cruising into a CoT.

This is fairly far-fetched, I suppose, but not out of the realm of posssibility.

Yesterday I was saving "fellow spawn" PackerFanatic. Now I'm doing it with Telle?

In a word, no.

[Tyrith]

Okay, I really wish path was here to further clarify if anything happened there.

[PackerFanatic]

stop sucking up to the gm nerd :D

Haha, yeah yeah :-P

[RendeR]

I think brig = Path, kwhit, Alan and Marc Vaughn (if he is scanned by path)


I concur with this completely! We need the Doc's kept clean and safe.

[mccollins]

Awesome, I am useful!

Seriously, kill the depressing Eeyore routine.

[jeheinz72]

Yeah, I want to hear from path. Good to see both are alive. Surprised, but good.

I'd also love to know what all this MV voting is about.

[Alan T]

Gah, only putting 4 in the brig sucks bigtime, its makes clearing further people pretty useless doesn't it?


Not once in space. Once in space no more spawnlings can be planted and clearing people = clearing people. But some people *cough* don't seem to get how important that is :)

[PackerFanatic]

Why the sudden votes for MV?

[Tyrith]

Not once in space. Once in space no more spawnlings can be planted and clearing people = clearing people. But some people *cough* don't seem to get how important that is :)

And some people don't realize that this game may not be puppy dogs and rainbows and a nice, simple four day spawn hunt once we're in space, with nothing going wrong.

[hoopsguy]

Hoops will be scanned. If he is good, the brig should hold me, Alan, KWhit and hoops. If he's bad I'd suggest just KWhit and Alan, since we have no read on whether or not Schmidty is good or bad -- that whole thing could be a ploy.

I don't think it is optima putting me in the brig, if/when cleared. I'm armed and can defend and spy. I'm fine with continued suspicions about being converted as the cost of not being in the brig, but I think it wastes my role.

I'm pretty sure I've caught us one spawn while spying last night and I want opportunities to continue looking for spawn.

[Alan T]

And some people don't realize that this game may not be puppy dogs and rainbows and a nice, simple four day spawn hunt once we're in space, with nothing going wrong.


Hey I've played this game before so I am pretty well familiar to why people would want to delay the ship leaving

[Tyrith]

BTW, and I have to say this in order to stop myself from getting angry, the smiley face there comes off as mocking and not diffusing.

[jeheinz72]

You have my approach backwards. I'm much more aggressive as a villager than a wolf. Everything else you say afterwards is based on a faulty starting assumption, to the point that I'm not even bothering to read it.

That's not my experience. I think your tact as aggressive wolf is what got you lynched in the Chess game. Similar to what clued me in in the LolCat game.

But hey, looks like I was wrong here if what I'm inferring is correct.

[mccollins]

For what it is worth, I was "lurking around various parts of the ship through-out the night." while following another player.

I don't know of any reason that person should have been in a position to be moving about various parts of the ship, but I'll start looking at private roles to see if something matches up with it.

Hoops, I know you just met with Path and all, but why did you use white text in this post? I only first saw it when Heinz quoted it.

[LoneStarGirl]

Seriously, kill the depressing Eeyore routine.

Seriously, if you dont have anything nice to say, dont say anything at all. I will play the way i want to play, if you have a problem with it, drop out of the game. You wont be missed.

[Chubby]

I'm still catching up but a recap so far...

There was a reason nobody else was in any danger on the mission I went on. I got attacked by a spawn but found out I'm incorruptible.

Somethings struck me as odd about Marc Vaughn since the start. He's been super quiet and was begging to be scanned or empathed. Now he comes out as the empath?

Nice try Marc but you spawn must be hurting if you are fake revealing this early. I suspect MV is the unaware spawn but I am 100% certain that he is not the empath. Therefore he gets my vote and should get everyone else's vote.

I have no heat on me, I have zero reason to start shit unless I was 100% sure which I am.

Bring on the spawn counterattack.

[hoopsguy]

There is a bevy of activity in the infirmary. First bulletsponge calls in PackersFanatic to help treat that festering wound. As this goes on, path calls in hoopsguy. Some of the crew holds their breath waiting to find out who, if either, will emerge from that examination. And in the end both do.

Thank you. You will not regret it.

Once results come in, will people please join me in asking for a better answer from Telle?

[mccollins]

Good call... well that is a nice break.. we still have to have the engines fixed though.

I don't know that 4 crys is enough of a buffer either. :(

[KWhit]

Lynch Marc Vaughn

more to come...

thats good enough for me

Vote Lynch Marc Vaughn

THAT'S good enough for you???

Not me. I need a little more than "more to come" to convince me.

[Tyrith]

Sigh, Chubby, that just seems really weak. Seems like you're 100 percent sure about a hunch, and Marc has never struck me as particularly loud. Afraid I can't follow you today.

[Alan T]

BTW, and I have to say this in order to stop myself from getting angry, the smiley face there comes off as mocking and not diffusing.


Then I'll stop using smiling faces when saying how wrong I believe you to be. I don't intend to mock (not sure how the last statement was mocking at all).. I just think everyone is being so rash to try to get a pulse on who the spawn are when that can change very fast while on the planet in the first place.

1) Traditional voting records mean NOTHING here since the high rate of conversions wreck them.
2) We still have the traditional low probability of hitting a spawn with a vote unless really lucky so most likely would kill off villagers that we need to perform functions..

Once we get into space, this becomes a much more traditional type of WW game including the need for lynches and voting records. Tyrith, I'm trying to not be mean or insulting or anything with this post as I respect people can have a different viewpoint.. but I feel our #1 priority right now is to get off of this planet in tact.

Bottom line is this:

If Hoops was a spawn or if Telle was a spawn, they still helped us get the crystals we needed today... They still were used to help us come closer to our goal.. We need ALL of the people we have to get off this planet.. Once off of the planet, string em up, burn em at the stake.. I don't care

[path12]

Gah, only putting 4 in the brig sucks bigtime, its makes clearing further people pretty useless doesn't it?

A solid group of four ain't too bad, especially if we can get off the planet tomorrow.

[KWhit]

I'm still catching up but a recap so far...

There was a reason nobody else was in any danger on the mission I went on. I got attacked by a spawn but found out I'm incorruptible.

Somethings struck me as odd about Marc Vaughn since the start. He's been super quiet and was begging to be scanned or empathed. Now he comes out as the empath?

Nice try Marc but you spawn must be hurting if you are fake revealing this early. I suspect MV is the unaware spawn but I am 100% certain that he is not the empath. Therefore he gets my vote and should get everyone else's vote.

I have no heat on me, I have zero reason to start shit unless I was 100% sure which I am.

Bring on the spawn counterattack.

What does any of this have to do with Marc?

[path12]

And hoops is human.

[hoopsguy]

Hoops, I know you just met with Path and all, but why did you use white text in this post? I only first saw it when Heinz quoted it.

Weird, I cut/paste stuff out of the rules thread but don't think I did anything else differently.

So, I guess inadvertant?

[claphamsa]

LSG and MCCOLLINS sitting in a tree K I S S I N G :D

[Chubby]

Sigh, Chubby, that just seems really weak. Seems like you're 100 percent sure about a hunch, and Marc has never struck me as particularly loud. Afraid I can't follow you today.

Do I need to spell it out for you?

[Chubby]

What does any of this have to do with Marc?


It is impossible for MV to be the empath.

[claphamsa]

Do I need to spell it out for you?

you do for me :)

[jeheinz72]

It is impossible for MV to be the empath.

Chubby, empath something. Ideally path's post about hoops being human (since if MV is spawn we have no way to verify our doc, or a delayed way)

[path12]

I don't think it is optima putting me in the brig, if/when cleared. I'm armed and can defend and spy. I'm fine with continued suspicions about being converted as the cost of not being in the brig, but I think it wastes my role..

I wish you would have said that before I scanned you. I hadn't thought of that. :(

[mccollins]

Seriously, if you dont have anything nice to say, dont say anything at all. I will play the way i want to play, if you have a problem with it, drop out of the game. You wont be missed.

I've been nice and encouraging that you're important all day. If you're just trying to play it in character or something then say so.

[KWhit]

It is impossible for MV to be the empath.

Got it. I actually suspected him earlier because he said he could use his empath power once per day, but that's not true, it's 2x per game.

I'll go along.

Vote Marc Vaughn

[Alan T]

Ok here is the deal.....

I really would like to use Hoops tommorrow to interrogate people if we can get off of this planet.. so please don't vote for him..

I really would like to use Telle to do one more crystal run first thing in the morning so don't vote for her...

I really would like to have Marc scanned/and have marc scan path as the new doctor so please don't vote for him...

I'm going to piss people off further, but as long as our security guards make absolutely sure to guard : Cargo Hold, Engines and Security HQ I don't see any reason we can't lift off tommorrow...

So I'm just asking for one more day of no lynch to get off this planet.

[jeheinz72]

Unvote hoopsguy

[hoopsguy]

For any of the other people who have not had beds, was there anything that suggested they were out an about between rooms?

I don't think there is another spying PM to compare to - if I had to guess, based on the morning PM Olie didn't get an order in as I didn't see her listed. But she or Mrs Schmidty could potentially have PMs that mirror what I saw from Telle.

I'm not going to try too hard to give the benefit of the doubt here. The math is pretty compelling that in a group of five players you have at least one being bad (80%). We've cleared four of the officers, assuming Schmidty did so with KWhit. That leaves Telle, who was up last night, is exhausted today, and doesn't appear to be leveling with us about her actions.

The defense rests.

Heinz, I'll accept your apology whenever you are prepared to give it.

[Chubby]

I want a consensus on what I should empath since, surprise, I'm the empath. Thus as soon as I saw MV claim empath I knew he was full of shit. Seeing as I can't be turned I would like some protection tonight however.

[KWhit]

Chubby, empath something. Ideally path's post about hoops being human (since if MV is spawn we have no way to verify our doc, or a delayed way)

Whoah, hold on a sec. Let's give this some thought first (and make sure we empath the best possible statement if that's what we're gonna do).

[hoopsguy]

It is impossible for MV to be the empath.

So you were incorruptable and an empath and spawn attacked last night?

[Chubby]

MV covered for Alan T earlier in my catchup so Alan so you're going to forgive me if I don't believe you 100%.

MV being spawn and vouching for you makes you suspicious as well.

[Tyrith]

Then I'll stop using smiling faces when saying how wrong I believe you to be. I don't intend to mock (not sure how the last statement was mocking at all).. I just think everyone is being so rash to try to get a pulse on who the spawn are when that can change very fast while on the planet in the first place.

1) Traditional voting records mean NOTHING here since the high rate of conversions wreck them.
2) We still have the traditional low probability of hitting a spawn with a vote unless really lucky so most likely would kill off villagers that we need to perform functions..

Once we get into space, this becomes a much more traditional type of WW game including the need for lynches and voting records. Tyrith, I'm trying to not be mean or insulting or anything with this post as I respect people can have a different viewpoint.. but I feel our #1 priority right now is to get off of this planet in tact.

Bottom line is this:

If Hoops was a spawn or if Telle was a spawn, they still helped us get the crystals we needed today... They still were used to help us come closer to our goal.. We need ALL of the people we have to get off this planet.. Once off of the planet, string em up, burn em at the stake.. I don't care

I think you're drawing a false dichotamy between today and tomorrow. The plan is not to be stuck on this planet by this time tomorrow, correct? Then what is fundamentally different about our situation now? We have one more round of potential night conversions, and we have to send one or two people outside tomorrow -- it's a possible conversion but not ultra likely.

And we clearly don't need all 23 people to do the things we need to get off the ground at this point -- between the engineers and a couple of people to go outside we've got all our essential stuff covered. We've got stuff like scientists, a trainer, two ensigns soon, all these parts that don't really change our situation today or tomorrow that much. The world isn't going to change completely at lift off, and by waiting extra days to start doing stuff then we could be in trouble.

If we had gone with no lynch from the get go we wouldn't even be having these conversations right now. Lynch or no, this information is helpful for days after today, when you would have started lynching people. The information is ultimately the motivation for the lynch -- although killing wolves is nice, too -- and can't get that if we aren't willing to go through. I'll trade a dead ensign or a dead engineer for what the process of getting to the corpse tells us.

[KWhit]

Ok here is the deal.....

I really would like to use Hoops tommorrow to interrogate people if we can get off of this planet.. so please don't vote for him..

I really would like to use Telle to do one more crystal run first thing in the morning so don't vote for her...

I really would like to have Marc scanned/and have marc scan path as the new doctor so please don't vote for him...

I'm going to piss people off further, but as long as our security guards make absolutely sure to guard : Cargo Hold, Engines and Security HQ I don't see any reason we can't lift off tommorrow...

So I'm just asking for one more day of no lynch to get off this planet.

If marc is a spawn, I don't think we want him scanned at this point.

[Alan T]

I want a consensus on what I should empath since, surprise, I'm the empath. Thus as soon as I saw MV claim empath I knew he was full of shit. Seeing as I can't be turned I would like some protection tonight however.


Chubby, you are claiming to have two secret roles? I guess I don't see anything in the rules that says that is impossible, just seems odd

[path12]

Whoah, hold on a sec. Let's give this some thought first (and make sure we empath the best possible statement if that's what we're gonna do).

Then I should clarify my comment if that's the one you choose. The result of my scan of hoops said that he was human.

[Chubby]

So you were incorruptable and an empath and spawn attacked last night?


I was spawn attacked during my away mission yesterday. Found out incorruptible.

I was slave attcked the night before. Found out empath.

I couldn't post last night as I got home too late and couldn't come out as I feared being killed with not enough people online. I was also hoping someone would fake reveal my role so I could nail which I lucked out on.

[jeheinz72]

Heinz, I'll accept your apology whenever you are prepared to give it.


Not comin'. :)

Or at least not until you & company do for starting in on me to begin with (once you find out I'm not Spawn, of course)

It's WW, we're all wrong sometimes.

[KWhit]

And I think it's time to start lynching people. We don't need to wait another night, IMO.

[Tyrith]

If you're going to empath something empath something about your current lynch target. Having two in this game would NOT strike me as ultra strange. However, I'm pretty silly for missing something that obvious -- but to be honest, dropping not subtle hints strikes me as silly when you can just be clear.

[Chubby]

Whoah, hold on a sec. Let's give this some thought first (and make sure we empath the best possible statement if that's what we're gonna do).

I'm going to be online for a while so yes, I want the best possible statement to empath.

I don't fully trust Alan as MV vouched for him when he "came out" as emapth.

[path12]

MV covered for Alan T earlier in my catchup so Alan so you're going to forgive me if I don't believe you 100%.

MV being spawn and vouching for you makes you suspicious as well.

Chubby, if you believe I'm good as the doctor then you need to know that KWhit, Alan and now hoops have all scanned as human by me. If you don't believe I'm good as the doctor then you need to empath one of my statements.

[jeheinz72]

How about just empathing the statement where Marc said he was the empath?

[Alan T]

MV covered for Alan T earlier in my catchup so Alan so you're going to forgive me if I don't believe you 100%.

MV being spawn and vouching for you makes you suspicious as well.


Great.. so I've been scanned by our doctor Path, locked in the brig the entire time since, Marc double vouched for me (obviously that could have been faked).. and apparently a part of an absolute trust group with another officer whom I think I know who it is based on hints in the thread...

That isn't enough to clear me? Are you sure you want to accuse the person who has been triple cleared that has the ability to duke you of this? :)

[jeheinz72]

I think it's a matter of if we want to lay up (empath something related to MV) or go for the green (empath something path said)

[LoneStarGirl]

I've been nice and encouraging that you're important all day. If you're just trying to play it in character or something then say so.

Werewolf is not about being nice and encouraging, I don't need it from you. I know i am importantl not as important as others, but who cares, the game is fun one way or another... there are parts of the game you dont know, so dont assume that you do.. Maybe my role is one of a needy scientist. I would rather you just skip over my posts if you are going to respond to them in the way you have previously.

[Tyrith]

How about just empathing the statement where Marc said he was the empath?

Strikes me as pretty much the most direct way to get what we want and need.

[Chubby]

I am pretty sure that MV is the unaware spawn as he has been begging to be scanned since day one. He is most def NOT the empath as claimed.

Scan me but I don't want to be in the brig with Alan so he can off me (if it's possible to kill in the brig).

[claphamsa]

do we know there is only one empath?

[hoopsguy]

Not comin'. :)

Or at least not until you & company do for starting in on me to begin with (once you find out I'm not Spawn, of course)

It's WW, we're all wrong sometimes.

I was kidding, I know it is WW and games play out this way sometimes. I'm still pretty intrigued by the you/Danny dynamic, but I don't think today is the day to revisit this.

1.) Get Telle
2.) Figure out Marc/Chubby

That is enough to do between now and liftoff.

[path12]

Having two in this game would NOT strike me as ultra strange.

Especially when you consider some of us were willing to consider multiple people as Spawn Aware yesterday.

[Chubby]

Chubby, if you believe I'm good as the doctor then you need to know that KWhit, Alan and now hoops have all scanned as human by me. If you don't believe I'm good as the doctor then you need to empath one of my statements.

I know that. I merely stating the MV vouching for him rasies suspicion in my mind since I know MV to be spawn. Unless he's trying to gain good points for vouching for something already known to be good.

[LoneStarGirl]

Question, Alant you said that spawns can change one way or another while we are on the planet... does that mean you can be a spawn then come human?

And dont we think that the people who have been cleared will be perfect candidates for conversion?

[Chubby]

Strikes me as pretty much the most direct way to get what we want and need.

Do waste a empath when I know it to be false. I don't think for a second there's two empaths.

[jeheinz72]

I'd say 2 and then 1.

Not to say I don't believe you, but I think MV having lied about being an empath is more of a clear-cut lynch subject than you seeing Telle do something that could be GM-wording related (maybe).

[Tyrith]

Gaaah, now I don't feel like I can trust you, either, Chubby, because that distrust of Alan seems very, very strange and weak.

[Chubby]

Barkeep - Is what I empath and the results made public? (as I hope it is)

[Tyrith]

Do waste a empath when I know it to be false. I don't think for a second there's two empaths.

Well, maybe some of the rest of us don't agree, and if he's actually a wolf it will be well worth our time to make sure of it.

[Alan T]

Question, Alant you said that spawns can change one way or another while we are on the planet... does that mean you can be a spawn then come human?

And dont we think that the people who have been cleared will be perfect candidates for conversion?

I don't know of any game mechanism that allows spawns to later become human. Closest thing in the rules is the role where they show up and appear to everything as spawn at night, but during the day show up completely human to seer scans, empath statements, etc. But they are on the spawn team the entire time

[jeheinz72]

Do waste a empath when I know it to be false. I don't think for a second there's two empaths.

I don't think we can rule that out. Plus there is a gain to the Spawn in trying to get MV lynched today if he's good.

[Chubby]

Gaaah, now I don't feel like I can trust you, either, Chubby, because that distrust of Alan seems very, very strange and weak.

Guilt by association. If a spawn vouched for you it'd raise doubts about you as well.

[KWhit]

There are 2 scenarios that make sense to me.

1) Chubby's telling the truth.

2) Chubby is lying about being an empath. MV is really the empath, but Chubby has to do something drastic. Connecting the dots, the only reason that makes sense for Chubby to fake this has to do with MV becoming a doctor. The implication there is that the spawn don't want MV to become a doctor. The only way I can see the spawn making such an outrageous play is their afraid MV will scan Path and Path is a spawn.


Crazy scenario there, but it's the only one that really makes sense to me right now if Chubby's lying.

[Alan T]

Well, maybe some of the rest of us don't agree, and if he's actually a wolf it will be well worth our time to make sure of it.


No idea if the empath works differently in this game, but in most games the empath gets the PM. I assume it will work the same here, where we won't see any result from either Marc or Chubby's empath scans (We didn't see the one that Marc claimed to have done on me before for instance).. so Chubby telling the truth or lying we would have to believe him as we won't see it.

[path12]

And dont we think that the people who have been cleared will be perfect candidates for conversion?

That's why we're all spending nights in the brig. Now that I've cleared three, I'm hunting spawn with my scans going forward.

[claphamsa]

There are 2 scenarios that make sense to me.

1) Chubby's telling the truth.

2) Chubby is lying about being an empath. MV is really the empath, but Chubby has to do something drastic. Connecting the dots, the only reason that makes sense for Chubby to fake this has to do with MV becoming a doctor. The implication there is that the spawn don't want MV to become a doctor. The only way I can see the spawn making such an outrageous play is their afraid MV will scan Path and Path is a spawn.


Crazy scenario there, but it's the only one that really makes sense to me right now if Chubby's lying.

pretty mcuh yeah... if hes lying its a terrible move.

[jeheinz72]

Guilt by association. If a spawn vouched for you it'd raise doubts about you as well.

But keep in mind Chubby, the Spawn know who is who. It's a pretty common wolf-tactic to say good things about known good people, in an effort to curry favor.

I think we all see your point, but a Spawn doing that (clearing a known cleared, or even a villager in general) is far from an extraordinary

[Alan T]

I don't think we can rule that out. Plus there is a gain to the Spawn in trying to get MV lynched today if he's good.

That is what I am thinking... Marc is about to become not only empath but also a doctor.. Marc has already shown that he didn't know the editing rule so I'm not sure that he has a full grasp of this complex rule set so any misinformation he has said in thread could possibly be accidental.

Its a tough call here as getting marc killed would kill off an empath and a doctor if Chubby is lying.. or if Chubby is telling the truth, he is basing alot of it on what seems to be hunches which in some cases (such as his accusing of me) seem to be very bad hunches.

[path12]

There are 2 scenarios that make sense to me.

1) Chubby's telling the truth.

2) Chubby is lying about being an empath. MV is really the empath, but Chubby has to do something drastic. Connecting the dots, the only reason that makes sense for Chubby to fake this has to do with MV becoming a doctor. The implication there is that the spawn don't want MV to become a doctor. The only way I can see the spawn making such an outrageous play is their afraid MV will scan Path and Path is a spawn.


Crazy scenario there, but it's the only one that really makes sense to me right now if Chubby's lying.

I really need to get back to work, but there's also 3) Chubby is mistaken and there are two empaths. I don't like the fact that MV was wrong about the amount of times he could check a statement though.

[Chubby]

Force MV to scan me.

If he's spawn and I'm not nothing happens, correct?
If path scans him then they both die.

[jeheinz72]

No idea if the empath works differently in this game, but in most games the empath gets the PM. I assume it will work the same here, where we won't see any result from either Marc or Chubby's empath scans (We didn't see the one that Marc claimed to have done on me before for instance).. so Chubby telling the truth or lying we would have to believe him as we won't see it.

If that's the case, then I see no point to Chubby empathing Marc's claim to be the empath. Him coming back and saying that the PM said Marc lied really isn't going to make more people believe him or not.

Chubby, empath something else.

[Chubby]

path - Then MV and I both empath a different statement.

[Barkeep49]

Barkeep - Is what I empath and the results made public? (as I hope it is)
Empath statements are not made public.

[Tyrith]

No idea if the empath works differently in this game, but in most games the empath gets the PM. I assume it will work the same here, where we won't see any result from either Marc or Chubby's empath scans (We didn't see the one that Marc claimed to have done on me before for instance).. so Chubby telling the truth or lying we would have to believe him as we won't see it.

Which, ultimately, makes me want to stay out of the entire mess. I think this is an argument being construed as certain that is far from it, and I want to resolve one mess at a time. If hoops is good, then let's just follow the lead we've got and kill Telle. If hoops is unaware spawn...we're pretty hosed, but that's going to be the case regardless.

Part of it for me is that the MV play seems so ultra silly to make as a wolf -- claiming to be an empath when it's almost certain there's one out there when it really doesn't garner any strategic advantage? It's ultra silly and doesn't make any sense. Whereas there are a variety of plays I could see Chubby making as a wolf in order to get us to lynch MV and stall for a lot of time wandering down the road of figuring out who he was protecting -- if anyone.

[Alan T]

There are 2 scenarios that make sense to me.

1) Chubby's telling the truth.

2) Chubby is lying about being an empath. MV is really the empath, but Chubby has to do something drastic. Connecting the dots, the only reason that makes sense for Chubby to fake this has to do with MV becoming a doctor. The implication there is that the spawn don't want MV to become a doctor. The only way I can see the spawn making such an outrageous play is their afraid MV will scan Path and Path is a spawn.


Crazy scenario there, but it's the only one that really makes sense to me right now if Chubby's lying.


Your #2 is my worst nightmare by the way. I mentioned on day 1 a few times that I had two suspects that just felt off to me.. but didn't want to mention them.. I later finally said Hoops was one.. well the other one was Path... That is why at the time I said I didn't want to run with my gut feelings this game as if they were wrong I would kill off our Security officer and doctor on an incorrect gut feeling and likely lose the game for us.

That is why I have been insistant on getting a new doctor and getting Path scanned.. and unfortunatly haven't been too lucky...

[Tyrith]

Force MV to scan me.

If he's spawn and I'm not nothing happens, correct?
If path scans him then they both die.

No, if you're spawn and he's not you both die; it tells us nothing about him. Although I don't trust MV to be in a room with anyone valuable right now, either.

[Chubby]

Your #2 is my worst nightmare by the way. I mentioned on day 1 a few times that I had two suspects that just felt off to me.. but didn't want to mention them.. I later finally said Hoops was one.. well the other one was Path... That is why at the time I said I didn't want to run with my gut feelings this game as if they were wrong I would kill off our Security officer and doctor on an incorrect gut feeling and likely lose the game for us.

That is why I have been insistant on getting a new doctor and getting Path scanned.. and unfortunatly haven't been too lucky...

Find me a post of path's to empath

[path12]

path - Then MV and I both empath a different statement.

That'd be cool if the results were in thread. Since that's not the case it's more problematic.......I'm willing to scan one of you tomorrow since I actually believe that Telle is the best vote for today.

No way MV should be in the brig though until this is straightened out.

[Alan T]

Which, ultimately, makes me want to stay out of the entire mess. I think this is an argument being construed as certain that is far from it, and I want to resolve one mess at a time. If hoops is good, then let's just follow the lead we've got and kill Telle. If hoops is unaware spawn...we're pretty hosed, but that's going to be the case regardless.

Part of it for me is that the MV play seems so ultra silly to make as a wolf -- claiming to be an empath when it's almost certain there's one out there when it really doesn't garner any strategic advantage? It's ultra silly and doesn't make any sense. Whereas there are a variety of plays I could see Chubby making as a wolf in order to get us to lynch MV and stall for a lot of time wandering down the road of figuring out who he was protecting -- if anyone.


The only thing is I don't necessarily see that Hoops being good = Telle is bad.

[Tyrith]

Your #2 is my worst nightmare by the way. I mentioned on day 1 a few times that I had two suspects that just felt off to me.. but didn't want to mention them.. I later finally said Hoops was one.. well the other one was Path... That is why at the time I said I didn't want to run with my gut feelings this game as if they were wrong I would kill off our Security officer and doctor on an incorrect gut feeling and likely lose the game for us.

That is why I have been insistant on getting a new doctor and getting Path scanned.. and unfortunatly haven't been too lucky...

And that #2 means we're ultimately screwed, as it wouldn't surprise me if we're barking up a path and hoops are bad together tree and we're going to spend the next two days lynching sheep and digging a hole through the hull. I think we pretty much have to assume that path is good for now, or we're in deep crap. Our best case scenario for getting out of that is having MV scan him and that seems highly likely to get them both killed, one way or another. Although that's not terrible in the case of MV killing path.

[path12]

Find me a post of path's to empath

Chubby, if you believe I'm good as the doctor then you need to know that KWhit, Alan and now hoops have all scanned as human by me. If you don't believe I'm good as the doctor then you need to empath one of my statements.

My suggestion. Not sure if that works or not though.

[Tyrith]

The only thing is I don't necessarily see that Hoops being good = Telle is bad.

I agree. However, if I take it as fact that hoops is good...then I trust his skills enough to follow his vote when it concurs enough with my own thoughts. And this Chubby/MV is a real mess that I think lynching Telle could shed some light on. Telle good improves the chances of Chubby being good, IMO.

[Alan T]

And that #2 means we're ultimately screwed, as it wouldn't surprise me if we're barking up a path and hoops are bad together tree and we're going to spend the next two days lynching sheep and digging a hole through the hull. I think we pretty much have to assume that path is good for now, or we're in deep crap. Our best case scenario for getting out of that is having MV scan him and that seems highly likely to get them both killed, one way or another. Although that's not terrible in the case of MV killing path.


I had a sarcastic remark typed out here, but decided since you got upset at me earlier I wouldn't type if out after all. :) <---- Good fun smily here!

[path12]

And that #2 means we're ultimately screwed, as it wouldn't surprise me if we're barking up a path and hoops are bad together tree and we're going to spend the next two days lynching sheep and digging a hole through the hull. I think we pretty much have to assume that path is good for now, or we're in deep crap. Our best case scenario for getting out of that is having MV scan him and that seems highly likely to get them both killed, one way or another. Although that's not terrible in the case of MV killing path.

I'll say one thing here. If the seer starts out bad, this game was unbalanced from the start.

[jeheinz72]

I think Chubby should empath a path statement. I think that's enough manpower to at least temporarily feed that potential deal-breaker of a scenario. If Chubby isn't the empath, nothing wasted. If he is, then we learn about path and Chubby still has 1 more empath usage.

[Alan T]

I agree. However, if I take it as fact that hoops is good...then I trust his skills enough to follow his vote when it concurs enough with my own thoughts. And this Chubby/MV is a real mess that I think lynching Telle could shed some light on. Telle good improves the chances of Chubby being good, IMO.


How does Telle and Chubby interconnect here?

[Marc Vaughan]

Why the sudden votes for MV?

I'd like to know that also ? ...

(only thing I can think of is that its traditional for my character to snuff it early on ... ;) )

[RendeR]

BTW, and I have to say this in order to stop myself from getting angry, the smiley face there comes off as mocking and not diffusing.


I'm not trying to be funny or anything here Tyr, but your posts today, recently at least have been VERY off color and make you look very suspicious. You're chomping at the bit over sometihng instead of working with the majority of the crew (including the cleared folks) and its getting kind of tiring.

[jeheinz72]

I'll say one thing here. If the seer starts out bad, this game was unbalanced from the start.

Agreed. But I think it's enough of a worry in the back of people's minds that if we can assuage it here by using an empath usage instead of a doctor scan, we should.

[RendeR]

How does Telle and Chubby interconnect here?

yeah I'm wondering that too.


Did I miss a scan result on hoops somewhere?

[Chubby]

How does Telle and Chubby interconnect here?

I'd like to know the same thing.

[Tyrith]

I'll say one thing here. If the seer starts out bad, this game was unbalanced from the start.

I have to agree, and I think that line of thinking just gets us nowhere.

My thought is that if Chubby is making a wolf play it's ultimately a confusion play. Get MV lynched, costing us another assassin essentially, make us spend our time killing him in a one for one then figure out who he was protecting. Probably not a play I would make as a wolf if Telle is the person he's protecting; it'd probably make a lot more sense to just let her go down. However, it's possible there's some line of thought of the first three lynches being MV (good) -> Chubby (bad) -> Telle (good) which is a for sure 2 for 1 and leaves us wondering where the heck we are at the end of it. Confusion is definitely an asset for the wolves.

[Marc Vaughan]

Somethings struck me as odd about Marc Vaughn since the start. He's been super quiet and was begging to be scanned or empathed. Now he comes out as the empath?
Err I warned people that I do have work to do - also because I'm a relative newbie I tend to be quieter here than in other aspects of forum life.

Nice try Marc but you spawn must be hurting if you are fake revealing this early. I suspect MV is the unaware spawn but I am 100% certain that he is not the empath. Therefore he gets my vote and should get everyone else's vote.
I have no heat on me, I have zero reason to start shit unless I was 100% sure which I am.

Ok I'm 100% certain I am the empath and have a PM which tells me that ...

The fact you're trying to get me killed tells me either you're a spawn or deluded, you're too intelligent to make this sort of mistake so you've seen a chance to knock off someone who can detect spawn.

Only way to check this obviously is to scan me ....

[Chubby]

Hey I up that and say I have a slight suspiscion of everyone being a spawn ... possibly including myself (I might have a split personality and not be telling myself everything ;) ) ...

However I will state for the case that I am NOT a spawn (that way which ever of you is an empath can verify me) ...

(thought this might be a useful thing to kick off if we're going to be able to form a circle of truth then he's the most likely person to be able to start it going)

Feel free to explain this statement as anything other than fishing to see if you could out the empath?

[Passacaglia]

My hunch is that there is more than one empath.

[RendeR]

Which came out first? Scan that person and lynch the other.

[Chubby]

Err I warned people that I do have work to do - also because I'm a relative newbie I tend to be quieter here than in other aspects of forum life.



Ok I'm 100% certain I am the empath and have a PM which tells me that ...

The fact you're trying to get me killed tells me either you're a spawn or deluded, you're too intelligent to make this sort of mistake so you've seen a chance to knock off someone who can detect spawn.

Only way to check this obviously is to scan me ....

A) tell me you aren't the unaware spawn
B) I don't want you scanned to kill our doc especially if you won't do a)

[Marc Vaughan]

As a suggestion ..

Scan me.
When I come back clean (I will)
I can then use my empathy to check out whether Chubby really was 100% certain I wasn't the empath, he won't be because I am (hence he must be either guessing or spawn and not caring either way).

That way I'm shown as safe and we clear up a spawn (which I reckon Chubby must be).

[PackerFanatic]

BK Question - is the 'Resistant' status made public?

[Tyrith]

We don't have any scans until tomorrow anyway, because MV isn't going to scan himself.

[Alan T]

Which came out first? Scan that person and lynch the other.


Marc came out first..

Or if Pass is right, chubby should be able to do an empath scan on Marc's statement and see if it comes true to rule it out.. if they are both empaths then he will learn that there.. if not then we'll have to decide which is lying.

[jeheinz72]

My only problem with just dismissing this as 2 empaths is that they have different empath frequencies.

[Chubby]

MV should scan me and prove I'm not spawn.

[Marc Vaughan]

Feel free to explain this statement as anything other than fishing to see if you could out the empath?

Simply put I knew that I'd be a target as soon as I told people I was an empath - hence initially I wanted to see if I could get some info before you started trying to kill me off.

Unfortunately we seemed somewhat paralysed for actions - hence I outed myself a little later on to try and start a 'circle of trust' starting with Alan (as he's now verified by two people).

[Telle]

I'm heading out.. hope to be back around 8:30 or so.

[KWhit]

Agreed. But I think it's enough of a worry in the back of people's minds that if we can assuage it here by using an empath usage instead of a doctor scan, we should.

But Chubby empathing a Path statement doesn't really do us any good if we're doubting Chubby.

[Chubby]

Marc came out first..

Or if Pass is right, chubby should be able to do an empath scan on Marc's statement and see if it comes true to rule it out.. if they are both empaths then he will learn that there.. if not then we'll have to decide which is lying.

Is anyone going to actually believe me as it's all via PM?

[KWhit]

MV should scan me and prove I'm not spawn.

How would he do that if HE's a spwn like you suggest?

????

[Chubby]

Simply put I knew that I'd be a target as soon as I told people I was an empath - hence initially I wanted to see if I could get some info before you started trying to kill me off.

Unfortunately we seemed somewhat paralysed for actions - hence I outed myself a little later on to try and start a 'circle of trust' starting with Alan (as he's now verified by two people).

Tell me you aren't a spawn including not being an unaware spawn.

[mccollins]

Do I need to spell it out for you?
It is impossible for MV to be the empath.

And we're sure there's just one empath?

(Note: wow - page 45 was completed in less than 30 minutes. I haven't ready any of it so I apologize if this has already been discussed.)

[Alan T]

Is anyone going to actually believe me as it's all via PM?


The point would be if you both are empaths as Pass suggested, you would believe yourself and tell us..

If you got back a response that he wasnt the empath, or you fake it (depending on whom is lying), then we have to decide which is lying.. This would rule out the possible double empath thing though

[Chubby]

How would he do that if HE's a spwn like you suggest?

????

Wouldn't we both walk out of the room with him a spawn and me a survivor? Only the doc gets killed if the person he is scanning is spawn, correct?

[Marc Vaughan]

MV should scan me and prove I'm not spawn.

Thats an interesting quandry actually ...

If you are spawn and I am then I'd say you're not and you'd back down.
If you aren't spawn and I say you're not then it doesn't prove anything to you.
If you are spawn and I say you are then you call me a liar and we've wasted a my powers for today because its down to my word against yours.

(hence my suggestion that I'm checked out - then we check you out)

[Chubby]

The point would be if you both are empaths as Pass suggested, you would believe yourself and tell us..

If you got back a response that he wasnt the empath, or you fake it (depending on whom is lying), then we have to decide which is lying.. This would rule out the possible double empath thing though

If I get back a "not an empath" PM then we are in the same position we are right now, except minus 1 empath check. Still would be my word vs his but I would only be able to check 1 statement vs the 2 I have now.

[Marc Vaughan]

Tell me you aren't a spawn including not being an unaware spawn.

I thought the idea of an unaware spawn was that they errr weren't aware of it?

I to the best of my knowledge am not a spawn or infected.

Care to make the same statement?

[Chubby]

Thats an interesting quandry actually ...

If you are spawn and I am then I'd say you're not and you'd back down.
If you aren't spawn and I say you're not then it doesn't prove anything to you.
If you are spawn and I say you are then you call me a liar and we've wasted a my powers for today because its down to my word against yours.

(hence my suggestion that I'm checked out - then we check you out)

you have no say, if we both die then I was spawn. If we both live, I am not spawn. You have no way of lying.

[KWhit]

This is just sounding more and more like villager vs. villager to me.

[Tyrith]

If I get back a "not an empath" PM then we are in the same position we are right now, except minus 1 empath check. Still would be my word vs his but I would only be able to check 1 statement vs the 2 I have now.

Well....more or less, you are right. My hope would be that if you are a villager that you would do it, and if he comes back as an empath pull up. But that's only somewhat likely, and we're not going to trust any other result. Although it might provide useful information about one of you is dead.

[KWhit]

you have no say, if we both die then I was spawn. If we both live, I am not spawn. You have no way of lying.

Sure he does. If he's spawn he can fake the scan, then you both walk out of the room.

[Chubby]

I thought the idea of an unaware spawn was that they errr weren't aware of it?

I to the best of my knowledge am not a spawn or infected.

Care to make the same statement?

Playing the "I don't know the rules card again?" come on now.

Unaware Spawn During the day, is unaware of being a Spawn (and may not communicate with other Spawn), but will not seem to be a Spawn when tested by other players. At night, assumes normal Spawn powers.

hence you begging to be scanned so you can be "cleared" from day 1.

I am not a spawn, I have never been a spawn, I do not have a spawnling in me, I am not the unaware spawn.

[Passacaglia]

Just empath each other, people. This shouldn't be that hard.

[Alan T]

If I get back a "not an empath" PM then we are in the same position we are right now, except minus 1 empath check. Still would be my word vs his but I would only be able to check 1 statement vs the 2 I have now.


I guess the deal though is if you or he get lynched and end up a villager, everyone will come after you next.. so don't YOU want to be absolute sure before barking up this tree?

[Tyrith]

Sure he does. If he's spawn he can fake the scan, then you both walk out of the room.

Chubby would still not be a spawn, though. And all that'd do would be to put more pressure on MV. I can see his point.

[Chubby]

Sure he does. If he's spawn he can fake the scan, then you both walk out of the room.

Which would clear me. So you're saying we are both spawn and both want to be scanned?

[Passacaglia]

This is just sounding more and more like villager vs. villager to me.

Word. But didn't you say that MV said something about using his empath ability once per day? I can't find where MV said that anywhere.

[Alan T]

Just empath each other, people. This shouldn't be that hard.


I don't think either of them have AP to do it today, everything we are talking about will be done tommorrow.. unless everyone want to take a 50/50 chance of guessing correctly with a lynch today only to find out we accidentally killed off 1 empath and 1 empath/doctor

[RendeR]

we're going to hit the 16 pages per game day of posts soon, thats gotta be some sort of record....

[Chubby]

I guess the deal though is if you or he get lynched and end up a villager, everyone will come after you next.. so don't YOU want to be absolute sure before barking up this tree?


If he comes up villager then lynch me next, I know that's how it works. If we have 2 empaths (after he was fishing to get the empath to check his statement earlier) then I deserve to die.

I do not want to waste an empath check on something i know to be so.

[Tyrith]

Word. But didn't you say that MV said something about using his empath ability once per day? I can't find where MV said that anywhere.

He said it really early in the day today. Sometime before 11 am CST for sure.

[Chubby]

I don't think either of them have AP to do it today, everything we are talking about will be done tommorrow.. unless everyone want to take a 50/50 chance of guessing correctly with a lynch today only to find out we accidentally killed off 1 empath and 1 empath/doctor

empath does not require AP according to the rules.

[Tyrith]

Alright, I might as well declare my allegiance for today once and for all. I'm staying out of the Chubby/MV mess. I'm sticking with hoops for now, sticking with what I was going to do before his information came out, and we'll see where this takes us.

VOTE TELLE

[Alan T]

If he comes up villager then lynch me next, I know that's how it works. If we have 2 empaths (after he was fishing to get the empath to check his statement earlier) then I deserve to die.

I do not want to waste an empath check on something i know to be so.


This statement sounds too much like spawn pushing to get a doctor killed to me at least.. maybe it is just my paranoia from you coming after me earlier.. after that little thing I wanted to just duke you.. but figured I didn't want to risk a mutiny just off of retaliation :)

[Alan T]

empath does not require AP according to the rules.


Ahh well then in that case, both of you just empath each other like pass said....

[Danny]

Whew, finally caught up, geez

[KWhit]

Which would clear me. So you're saying we are both spawn and both want to be scanned?

It would do no good, because we'd still not know if MV was spawn or not (which is what you're original argument was). I don't see how him scanning you does any good.

[path12]

As a suggestion ..

Scan me.
When I come back clean (I will)
I can then use my empathy to check out whether Chubby really was 100% certain I wasn't the empath, he won't be because I am (hence he must be either guessing or spawn and not caring either way).

That way I'm shown as safe and we clear up a spawn (which I reckon Chubby must be).

I can't scan anyone else today.

[Alan T]

I wouldn't empath scan any statement from each other saying they aren't a spawn.. I would simply scan each other's statement where you both said you are the empath. That seems easy enough

[Chubby]

Basically it comes down to either:

a) i'm making the worst play ever, one that will ensure my death in Day 4 to take out a doc that I could do by getting scanned (if you think I'm spawn)

b) I'm right.

Why the fuck would I press this with zero heat on me, being trained up to lead teams where (if I was spawn) I could fuck with away missions, and ensure my death the next day unless I was telling the truth?

[Passacaglia]

Ok fair enough - one proviso, unless I find something blatant I'll probably be cagey using the ability (as its a once a day shot) and because I'm working as well as doing this I'm not as attentive as some of you ..... so feel free to ask me to do something if I'm missing the obvious.

Here it is.

[Passacaglia]

That was post 1792.

[Alan T]

Basically it comes down to either:

a) i'm making the worst play ever, one that will ensure my death in Day 4 to take out a doc that I could do by getting scanned (if you think I'm spawn)

b) I'm right.

Why the fuck would I press this with zero heat on me, being trained up to lead teams where (if I was spawn) I could fuck with away missions, and ensure my death the next day unless I was telling the truth?

Or c) you are both empaths

[Passacaglia]

Basically it comes down to either:

a) i'm making the worst play ever, one that will ensure my death in Day 4 to take out a doc that I could do by getting scanned (if you think I'm spawn)

b) I'm right.

Why the fuck would I press this with zero heat on me, being trained up to lead teams where (if I was spawn) I could fuck with away missions, and ensure my death the next day unless I was telling the truth?

No opinion on two empaths? Granted, I blinked and missed like 100 posts. And since I'm driving home, I expect to miss eleventy gajillion.

[Marc Vaughan]

Right I've fired off a PM request - to be honest I'm not sure when it'll get done I did Alan yesterday but I'm still settling into the rules of this game so I'm not sure how fast the action will get done.

The sooner the better imho - at the best we'll find a spawn (presuming that if it comes back positive people are happy to scan me and validate Chubby as a spawn) - at the worst we'll have three safe people in Chubby, Myself and Alan (presuming it comes back negative in which case the scan on me to verify me and hence my scan means we're all clean).

[Chubby]

I wouldn't empath scan any statement from each other saying they aren't a spawn.. I would simply scan each other's statement where you both said you are the empath. That seems easy enough


again, no one will believe either of us.

MV should be lynched. If he comes up villager, fuck, I'll off myself (in game).

[Danny]

I'm going to do my work on the engines here.

[Marc Vaughan]

I wouldn't empath scan any statement from each other saying they aren't a spawn.. I would simply scan each other's statement where you both said you are the empath. That seems easy enough

Sorry too late - I did the spawn one already, reason being simply that if we proved him not an empath then he could just say he was bluffing because he thought I was faking .... then we'd have to scan him or use empath again the next day to out him (which wastes time).

[Chubby]

No opinion on two empaths? Granted, I blinked and missed like 100 posts. And since I'm driving home, I expect to miss eleventy gajillion.

If I thought there was 2 emapths I wouldn't be this sure. No, I don't think there's 2 empaths.

I especially don't think MV is one after he was fishing to get empathed in day one (I already quoted his post)

[KWhit]

Basically it comes down to either:

a) i'm making the worst play ever, one that will ensure my death in Day 4 to take out a doc that I could do by getting scanned (if you think I'm spawn)

b) I'm right.

Why the fuck would I press this with zero heat on me, being trained up to lead teams where (if I was spawn) I could fuck with away missions, and ensure my death the next day unless I was telling the truth?

As I explained before, the a) option would only make sense in my mind if you were trying to protect Path (if he were a spawn). Then it wouldn't be the worst move ever - it would be genius.

I think, however, it's more likely that you guys are both empaths.

[Alan T]

again, no one will believe either of us.

MV should be lynched. If he comes up villager, fuck, I'll off myself (in game).


Once again, the point is this will only prove to each other.. if you aren't both empaths then we're no worse off than already today, but it means we don't end up killing both empaths..

You might be ready to fall on your sword, but I would really rather not lose any empaths much less 2

[Barkeep49]

BK Question - is the 'Resistant' status made public?
No

[Danny]

Sorry too late - I did the spawn one already, reason being simply that if we proved him not an empath then he could just say he was bluffing because he thought I was faking .... then we'd have to scan him or use empath again the next day to out him (which wastes time).

The rules clearly state Empath powers twice per game and not once per day. Can you please respond to this issue about why you are able to scan each day?

[Alan T]

Sorry too late - I did the spawn one already, reason being simply that if we proved him not an empath then he could just say he was bluffing because he thought I was faking .... then we'd have to scan him or use empath again the next day to out him (which wastes time).


Unless already processed you can probably send a correction in to BK. you might be too late or might not be.. At this point with the stance both of you are taking, I dont think anyone is going to believe a defense of I was faking it

[Chubby]

Sorry too late - I did the spawn one already, reason being simply that if we proved him not an empath then he could just say he was bluffing because he thought I was faking .... then we'd have to scan him or use empath again the next day to out him (which wastes time).


STOP!!!


You claimed you emapthed to clear Alan T (that's one)
You claim to emapth my spawn statement (that's two)


Now you're going to empath me tomorrow? (that's three)


You aren't the empath. You are faking shit out your ass. You get 2 checks. Not three.

Once again, my character will hang himself from his bed if MV comes back not a spawn.

[Chubby]

As I explained before, the a) option would only make sense in my mind if you were trying to protect Path (if he were a spawn). Then it wouldn't be the worst move ever - it would be genius.

I think, however, it's more likely that you guys are both empaths.

With him begging to be empathed
then claiming empath
THEN claiming he can do 3 emapth checks?

No way there's two. I'm the only empath.

[KWhit]

With him begging to be empathed
then claiming empath
THEN claiming he can do 3 emapth checks?

No way there's two. I'm the only empath.

I don't think he was begging to be empathed. Do you have his quote handy that led you to this conclusion? Post it, please if you do.

[Danny]

I'm not going to yell and scream like Chubby, but I also want an explanation about why he says he can scan each day and then can scan three times.

[Barkeep49]

Danny ignores the confusion over who has what supernatural powers and goes to work on the engines.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/images/styles/office/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?p=1773190#post1773190)
Hey I up that and say I have a slight suspiscion of everyone being a spawn ... possibly including myself (I might have a split personality and not be telling myself everything ;) ) ...

However I will state for the case that I am NOT a spawn (that way which ever of you is an empath can verify me) ...

(thought this might be a useful thing to kick off if we're going to be able to form a circle of truth then he's the most likely person to be able to start it going)


Found it....

Don't you think this sounds like he was fishing for others to make the same statement he just made? Maybe so that he could empath them?

That's a possibility, no?

[jeheinz72]

No opinion on two empaths? Granted, I blinked and missed like 100 posts. And since I'm driving home, I expect to miss eleventy gajillion.

Excellent use of the eleventy Pass.

[Chubby]

Hey I up that and say I have a slight suspiscion of everyone being a spawn ... possibly including myself (I might have a split personality and not be telling myself everything ;) ) ...

However I will state for the case that I am NOT a spawn (that way which ever of you is an empath can verify me) ...

(thought this might be a useful thing to kick off if we're going to be able to form a circle of truth then he's the most likely person to be able to start it going)


...

[Alan T]

Just so it doesn't get lost in the shuffle... People with outstanding AP for today:

Alan T - 3 AP
Bullet - 1 AP
Jackal - 1 AP
oliegirl - 1 AP
Pass - 1 AP
Mrs.Schmidty - 1 AP (No action available)

Updated what I know so far.. I know one of the doctors healed someone, which one was it? That leaves the other doctor, Pass and Oliegirl to do their actions today..

Tonight: Security, I know the impulse is high to try to catch a spawn in the act, but most important thing is to make sure the cargo hold, engines and security HQ are all protected.. If one of the crew die tonight, then so be it right now the ship has to be protected so we can lift off tommorrow.

[mccollins]

We don't have any scans until tomorrow anyway, because MV isn't going to scan himself.

Plus MV doesn't become a Doctor until tomorrow morning since I just trained him today..

[KWhit]

Also...

Meta-gaming somewhat here...

MV has seemed to be a little 'off' on the ruleset in this game (no offense MV).

I seriously doubt he would put that empath stuff out there without some good reason. I think the reason is that he's more familiar with the empath role than any other, probably becasue he is the empath.

[Chubby]

Found it....

Don't you think this sounds like he was fishing for others to make the same statement he just made? Maybe so that he could empath them?

That's a possibility, no?

To me, no. He was fishing to see if there was an emapth and if he could out him. I don't for a second think there's 2 empaths.

[PackerFanatic]

Updated what I know so far.. I know one of the doctors healed someone, which one was it? That leaves the other doctor, Pass and Oliegirl to do their actions today..

Tonight: Security, I know the impulse is high to try to catch a spawn in the act, but most important thing is to make sure the cargo hold, engines and security HQ are all protected.. If one of the crew die tonight, then so be it right now the ship has to be protected so we can lift off tommorrow.

Bullet healed me.

[Chubby]

I'm not going to yell and scream like Chubby, but I also want an explanation about why he says he can scan each day and then can scan three times.

i'd love to hear an answer on this as well.

[Alan T]

Also...

Meta-gaming somewhat here...

MV has seemed to be a little 'off' on the ruleset in this game (no offense MV).

I seriously doubt he would put that empath stuff out there without some good reason. I think the reason is that he's more familiar with the empath role than any other, probably becasue he is the empath.


That was my point earlier.. I really think being able to get some people to make sure we dont have multiple empaths would be a great idea... even if Chubby is adamant about it, I really don't want to lose any empaths.. They will become invaluable once we take off

[jeheinz72]

Updated what I know so far.. I know one of the doctors healed someone, which one was it? That leaves the other doctor, Pass and Oliegirl to do their actions today..

Tonight: Security, I know the impulse is high to try to catch a spawn in the act, but most important thing is to make sure the cargo hold, engines and security HQ are all protected.. If one of the crew die tonight, then so be it right now the ship has to be protected so we can lift off tommorrow.

It was bullet healing Packer

[Danny]

I also don't want it forgotten than Bulletsponge jumped on to vote for MV before Chubby even revealed any details about this.

[Alan T]

To me, no. He was fishing to see if there was an emapth and if he could out him. I don't for a second think there's 2 empaths.


Are you as sure as you were about my guilt earlier? Just wondering! :)

[oliegirl]

OK - I have SEVEN pages of posts to catch up on, and I'm back to work in less than 5 minutes so it's going to take a little while.

Hoops, please let me know (if you haven't already done so) who you would like me to hand phasers to tonight and I'll get that order in. I am going to get my PM in for sleep early tonight so hopefully I'll get a bed...I'm willing to share if any of you cute men in uniform would like to join me ;)

[Tyrith]

I also don't want it forgotten than Bulletsponge jumped on to vote for MV before Chubby even revealed any details about this.

I certainly haven't. He's going to be one of my prime if-nothing-strange-comes-up candidates for tomorrow -- although the odds of that happening seem pretty slim right now.

[Chubby]

That was my point earlier.. I really think being able to get some people to make sure we dont have multiple empaths would be a great idea... even if Chubby is adamant about it, I really don't want to lose any empaths.. They will become invaluable once we take off

Which is why I'm not wasting an empath check on something I know to be true.

Of course when I get killed tonight it won't matter anyways.

[Alan T]

OK - I have SEVEN pages of posts to catch up on, and I'm back to work in less than 5 minutes so it's going to take a little while.

Hoops, please let me know (if you haven't already done so) who you would like me to hand phasers to tonight and I'll get that order in. I am going to get my PM in for sleep early tonight so hopefully I'll get a bed...I'm willing to share if any of you cute men in uniform would like to join me ;)


Olie please protect the security HQ tonight.. we absolutely need that tonight if we are to take off tommorrow

[Chubby]

Are you as sure as you were about my guilt earlier? Just wondering! :)

I never put you in "SPAWN!!!" category.

I said you are suspicious because he vouched for your clearing. As I later said, it could have just been him trying to get "good points" by vouching for something already accepted as good.

So no, I've never been as sure about you as I am about MV. You aren't even top of the list after MV (or close to it) but you aren't 100% trusted either.

[Marc Vaughan]

Ok I'm not totally confused - apparently my ability failed or 'something' ...

I can't determine whether the statement is true or not -

I have no idea what that means I can only think of two conclusions -
* You're the mind spawn thingy and ate my power
* The 'unaware spawn' isn't aware they're a spawn and you aren't 100% sure if you are one or not (I don't know if they do know it in game or whether they know they're spawn just can't use their abilities during the day - couldn't work it out from the description, sorry - anyone know?).
* Something else - probably an ambigiuty in the wording?

The statement I scanned was:
"I am not a spawn, I have never been a spawn, I do not have a spawnling in me, I am not the unaware spawn."

You're quite correct in that I check just now and it does indicate I can only use the ability twice - which I have now done (not sure where I got once per day from, probably senility).
At least on the bright side if you lynch me I'm already out of my ability now.

(incidentally if I was really a spawn and trying a 'ploy' I'd surely have read the power description more clearly? :D)

[Marc Vaughan]

MV has seemed to be a little 'off' on the ruleset in this game (no offense MV).

No offense taken at all - this is only my second try at WW (and the first time I died off fairly quickly) and this is a very hardcore game ... fun, confusing but hardcore ... not quite used to having every comment I make micro-analysed, especially as I'm only paying half attention while trying to work.

[Alan T]

I never put you in "SPAWN!!!" category.

I said you are suspicious because he vouched for your clearing. As I later said, it could have just been him trying to get "good points" by vouching for something already accepted as good.

So no, I've never been as sure about you as I am about MV. You aren't even top of the list after MV (or close to it) but you aren't 100% trusted either.

I like how you changed your opinion on me a bit after pointed out to you I am 3-way cleared. :)

[Chubby]

Ok I'm not totally confused - apparently my ability failed or 'something' ...

I can't determine whether the statement is true or not -

I have no idea what that means I can only think of two conclusions -
* You're the mind spawn thingy and ate my power
* The 'unaware spawn' isn't aware they're a spawn and you aren't 100% sure if you are one or not (I don't know if they do know it in game or whether they know they're spawn just can't use their abilities during the day - couldn't work it out from the description, sorry - anyone know?).
* Something else - probably an ambigiuty in the wording?

The statement I scanned was:
"I am not a spawn, I have never been a spawn, I do not have a spawnling in me, I am not the unaware spawn."

You're quite correct in that I check just now and it does indicate I can only use the ability twice - which I have now done (not sure where I got once per day from, probably senility).
At least on the bright side if you lynch me I'm already out of my ability now.

(incidentally if I was really a spawn and trying a 'ploy' I'd surely have read the power description more clearly? :D)

Not if you are making shit up on the fly :D

[bulletsponge]

.

(incidentally if I was really a spawn and trying a 'ploy' I'd surely have read the power description more clearly? :D)

no, not true. i didnt know the rules the first game i was a wolf and it got me hung fast

[Chubby]

I like how you changed your opinion on me a bit after pointed out to you I am 3-way cleared. :)

I never put you in "I'm certain he's spawn" category, just to be clear.

I said MV vouching for you was suspicious and rasied doubts.

[Danny]

MV, I wish you had picked another statement to scan. There's too many parts to that one, should have just scanned Chubby stating he was the empath.

[path12]

I am going to get my PM in for sleep early tonight so hopefully I'll get a bed...I'm willing to share if any of you cute men in uniform would like to join me ;)

Gives a whole other meaning to Spawn. :D

[jeheinz72]

Vote Telle

My head just might explode.

[bulletsponge]

I am going to get my PM in for sleep early tonight so hopefully I'll get a bed...I'm willing to share if any of you cute men in uniform would like to join me ;)

whoa hold on there sister! ive seen the movie "Species" before. i aint fallin for that! then again i am lonely ;)

[Danny]

Vote Telle

My head just might explode.

Yeah, Jeheinz, On a completely different note, I'd like us to work together again tonight as well, three nights would give me a chance to come close to clearing you. I'd actually love to work with all the engineers again to continue to get a read on all of you because I think there's a reasonable chance you all are good.

[Alan T]

Security

Just so it doesn't get lost in all of the voting and discussion... most importantly... please put in PMs to guard the critical areas tonight or we won't be able to lift off tommorrow.... This is more important than today's lynch vote.. by far.

[Tyrith]

Security

Just so it doesn't get lost in all of the voting and discussion... most importantly... please put in PMs to guard the critical areas tonight or we won't be able to lift off tommorrow.... This is more important than today's lynch vote.. by far.

See, this I can get behind :) (dreaded smilely! sorry for the overreaction earlier, Alan.)

[RendeR]

Olie darlin, yer simply too adorable. If any of us spen the night with you you won't get any sleep anyway, you'll still be exhausted by mornin ;)

[jeheinz72]

Yeah, Jeheinz, On a completely different note, I'd like us to work together again tonight as well, three nights would give me a chance to come close to clearing you. I'd actually love to work with all the engineers again to continue to get a read on all of you because I think there's a reasonable chance you all are good.

I'm all for it. Assuming no one faked today, we've go 3 left on the engines, 18 on the beds and 6 on the water.

I'm putting in to work on engines, since that is a MUST.

[PackerFanatic]

Olie darlin, yer simply too adorable. If any of us spen the night with you you won't get any sleep anyway, you'll still be exhausted by mornin ;)

Hey-o!

[KWhit]

I'm not really happy about voting for anyone tonight. Sorry, Hoops and Tyrith. I know this might make your heads explode.

Unvote Marc Vaughn
Vote No Lynch

Chubby, if you empath scan MV and he comes back as lying about something, I might change my vote back to him.

[Danny]

I'm all for it. Assuming no one faked today, we've go 3 left on the engines, 18 on the beds and 6 on the water.

I'm putting in to work on engines, since that is a MUST.

I'll work on the engine too, perhaps along with Tyrith? That way we have four points there. Then Purduebrad and Clap can work on some beds? What do you think our distribution should be?

[bulletsponge]

Olie darlin, yer simply too adorable. If any of us spen the night with you you won't get any sleep anyway, you'll still be exhausted by mornin ;)

Pbbbt, that isnt what your wife told me last night










*runs and hides*

[Chubby]

I'm not really happy about voting for anyone tonight. Sorry, Hoops and Tyrith. I know this might make your heads explode.

Unvote Marc Vaughn
Vote No Lynch

Chubby, if you empath scan MV and he comes back as lying about something, I might change my vote back to him.

Pick it and I'll send it in right now.

[Tyrith]

I'm not really happy about voting for anyone tonight. Sorry, Hoops and Tyrith. I know this might make your heads explode.

Unvote Marc Vaughn
Vote No Lynch

Chubby, if you empath scan MV and he comes back as lying about something, I might change my vote back to him.

You don't have to be happy about it -- WW is about killing wolves, not about be happy :P

[KWhit]

Pick it and I'll send it in right now.

I don't know. Did he have a simple statement saying he was the empath?

[Marc Vaughan]

Ok a strange one for me to say here ....

If everyone accepts that Chubby must be a spawn if I'm innocent then can everyone vote to lynch me this evening.

Reasoning being simply:

(1) I'm working and not paying enough attention to WW not to make mistakes (for which I apologise, but work is more important imho). Not particularly 'gamey' I know but true enough ;)
(2) At this stage taking down a spawn for the loss of one 'grunt' isn't a bad exchange imho.
(3) I get to go out as a self sacrificing hero which is kinda neat ;)

Obviously this only works if you all agree that Chubby is guilty when its shown I was innocent.

[Marc Vaughan]

I don't know. Did he have a simple statement saying he was the empath?

Yeah there's a post in there somewhere where I 'outed' myself as the empath.

[RendeR]

Pbbbt, that isnt what your wife told me last night










*runs and hides*

I'm not married to your right hand bullet, I shouldn't have to keep telling you....

[Danny]

You're being trained as a doctor though, pretty important role.

[RendeR]

You're being trained as a doctor though, pretty important role.


Indeed, if you get tossed today we have to start over on a Doc tomorrow.

[KWhit]

Ok a strange one for me to say here ....

If everyone accepts that Chubby must be a spawn if I'm innocent then can everyone vote to lynch me this evening.

Reasoning being simply:

(1) I'm working and not paying enough attention to WW not to make mistakes (for which I apologise, but work is more important imho). Not particularly 'gamey' I know but true enough ;)
(2) At this stage taking down a spawn for the loss of one 'grunt' isn't a bad exchange imho.
(3) I get to go out as a self sacrificing hero which is kinda neat ;)

Obviously this only works if you all agree that Chubby is guilty when its shown I was innocent.

I think it's possible you are both innocent.

[KWhit]

BTW, we'll be passing the post count for the entire WW Draft Game pretty soon - likely before anyone is killed or lynched in this game.

That's pretty crazy.

[Marc Vaughan]

You're being trained as a doctor though, pretty important role.

Don't get me wrong I'm happy to survive given the chance - however I heavily suspect Chubby at present for obvious reasons and from a logic perspective I'd have thought taking out a spawn at this stage is worth the loss to the group as a whole.

Up to you lot, I just can't see any other way to nail Chubby as a spawn at present but can't see a way for him NOT to be one consider his accusation (its possible he's also an empath - but I always thought that in these games there was always just the one person in each role, has that ever not been the case?).

[jeheinz72]

I'll work on the engine too, perhaps along with Tyrith? That way we have four points there. Then Purduebrad and Clap can work on some beds? What do you think our distribution should be?

I think that's about right. Over-working the engines another point isn't a bad idea. Plus I think clap put a conditional in to tail Tyrith anyhow, so if Tyrith comes with us, clap does too.

[Tyrith]

I think that's about right. Over-working the engines another point isn't a bad idea. Plus I think clap put a conditional in to tail Tyrith anyhow, so if Tyrith comes with us, clap does too.

We're gonna have, what, 3 cycles left? Putting 5 on the engines doesn't seem too awful. That's where I'll be going, at least.

[Danny]

I like that idea especially, that way we can make sure we're getting off this planet tomorrow so the engine will be guaranteed fixed and then we can do spot repairs tomorrow on whatever else is needed.

[KWhit]

Don't get me wrong I'm happy to survive given the chance - however I heavily suspect Chubby at present for obvious reasons and from a logic perspective I'd have thought taking out a spawn at this stage is worth the loss to the group as a whole.

Up to you lot, I just can't see any other way to nail Chubby as a spawn at present but can't see a way for him NOT to be one consider his accusation (its possible he's also an empath - but I always thought that in these games there was always just the one person in each role, has that ever not been the case?).

Yes, there are only 12 secret 'villager' roles in this game, but a total of 23 players. If we figure we started with 20 villagers, there will definitely be doubling of some roles. The Absolute Trust is for sure 3-4 people (it was 3 in the last Spawn game, I believe), but there would other doubling as well.

[Danny]

I think doubling is possible as well

[Tyrith]

I like that idea especially, that way we can make sure we're getting off this planet tomorrow so the engine will be guaranteed fixed and then we can do spot repairs tomorrow on whatever else is needed.

This is my only hesitation in all this -- we have six cycles left on the water plant. We can fix it tomorrow, assuming nothing else bad happens. Running out of water in space is going to be very bad for business. However, this seems like something to be fixed tomorrow, and not tonight. Maybe use our spare engineer on that tonight, but that's somewhat more risky.

[Alan T]

I'll work on the engine too, perhaps along with Tyrith? That way we have four points there. Then Purduebrad and Clap can work on some beds? What do you think our distribution should be?

I think waterpump is more important than beds to fix but more importantly double or triple overfix the engines I say with everyone just so we avoid spawn killing tyrith plus another spawn engineer faking their work. As long as the engines are fixed the other stuff can wait.

Sorry if someone already said this... Am trying to keep up on my blackberry

[KWhit]

Also, I believe that every single one of us has a secret role, so there would have to be doubling.

[jeheinz72]

I have no secret villager role (or at least not one that I've become aware of yet)

[Danny]

I have no secret villager role (or at least not one that I've become aware of yet)

The rules say that sometimes it is not triggered until an action takes place like say being attacked.

[jeheinz72]

We're gonna have, what, 3 cycles left? Putting 5 on the engines doesn't seem too awful. That's where I'll be going, at least.

I think it's our correct move.

If I"m understanding it right, the engines are the last thing we need to repair in order to take off.

Then, once we take off, we're a lot more expendable and we can just hammer out the other stuff (or any new stuff)

[jeheinz72]

The rules say that sometimes it is not triggered until an action takes place like say being attacked.

Awesome, someone please attack me so I can be more bad-ass. K Thx by.

[KWhit]

Chubby, have you found a statement to empath-scan?

[Danny]

I think it's our correct move.

If I"m understanding it right, the engines are the last thing we need to repair in order to take off.

Then, once we take off, we're a lot more expendable and we can just hammer out the other stuff (or any new stuff)

Yeah, plus I get a better read on all of you :)

[Tyrith]

I think it's our correct move.

If I"m understanding it right, the engines are the last thing we need to repair in order to take off.

Then, once we take off, we're a lot more expendable and we can just hammer out the other stuff (or any new stuff)

Not until the water is fixed, we're not. We're only gonna have enough to last about two or three days in space.

[Danny]

Awesome, someone please attack me so I can be more bad-ass. K Thx by.

b**ch slaps you, anything yet?

[Chubby]

Chubby, have you found a statement to empath-scan?

Yes, will do so when back from errands shortly. Already getting the evil eye from the wife about being on the comp too long.

[jeheinz72]

b**ch slaps you, anything yet?

Thank you sir may I have another!

[jeheinz72]

Not until the water is fixed, we're not. We're only gonna have enough to last about two or three days in space.

Ah the water...excellent point. Well that's good, I don't like being expendable. I've seen the expendable people in action, they get grouchy! ;)

[Tyrith]

Gone for a while, potentially until after the lynch -- pretty please, kill something -- violence is the answer!

[Danny]

Thank you sir may I have another!

slaps you repeatedly!

[jeheinz72]

And with that, I'm outta here. Might pop on tonight, might not. Definitely in the Eh Em.

[jeheinz72]

slaps you repeatedly!

Nothing. What a jip. :(

[oliegirl]

Vote count?????

[Marc Vaughan]

Chubby, have you found a statement to empath-scan?

Use this one from earlier:
"Ok if this helps I'll 'out' myself as the resident empath* ..."

[hoopsguy]

Awesome, someone please attack me so I can be more bad-ass. K Thx by.

I've tried to get votes on you - that might have triggered an ability if more people folllowed :)