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Old 04-21-2013, 08:24 PM   #617
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by qpc123


Would you consider the shot by Craig Hodges at around 55 seconds of this video a catch and shoot?

I do.

This was a week ago so Hodges had:
DTL=0
ATT=0
PO=100

TT=100
TTS=100
NO TT=100
Yes. That is a shot from the triple threat position.
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Old 04-22-2013, 10:27 AM   #618
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by qpc123


Would you consider the shot by Craig Hodges at around 55 seconds of this video a catch and shoot?

I do.

This was a week ago so Hodges had:
DTL=0
ATT=0
PO=100

TT=100
TTS=100
NO TT=100
No.This is a shoot off the catch.

I can understand that you don't trust me but guys,listen at least to Tracy Murray
http://www.videojug.com/film/how-to-...-in-basketball
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Last edited by Serra11; 04-22-2013 at 10:32 AM.
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Old 04-22-2013, 10:32 AM   #619
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtreydawg
Your time stamps are weird but I think I understand the distinction you are making. Are you saying that a triple threat shot comes after a jab step?
It is a shot that comes after a player stand himself in a triple threat position.

Triple threat position and related moves

Triple threat is the position when a player facing a defender receives a pass but has not dribbled yet. The offensive player's feet are slightly wider than shoulder width and slightly on the balls of his feet, his knees flexed, with both hands on the basketball in front of him or almost resting on his thigh, presenting the defender with an opponent able to move in any direction. One foot is held as the pivot and the other slightly ahead. From this, the player can choose from three options: to jump-shoot, to dribble (drive) past the defender or to pass it to a teammate. There are also options to get the defender out of his defensive stance by using jab steps and pump fakes.
[edit]
Jab step

A jab step, also known as side step, is performed when a player holds onto the ball before dribbling while his non-pivot leg performs a jabbing forward or side motion. This move is used to test defender's defensive weaknesses and stance. A combination of the pump fake, the drive, the shot and the crossover drive can be performed along with the jab step to lure the opponent out of his defense. New York Knicks forward Carmelo Anthony is well known for taking the jab step, as was 13-year pro Kiki Vandeweghe. When he does this, the defender falls off from his defensive stance, creating a space between him and the defender, allowing him to take a quick mid-range jumper, a three-pointer, or a drive "to the lane."
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Old 04-22-2013, 03:43 PM   #620
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

We are going DEEP down philosophy lane.

I argue that Hodges could have done all of that from the position he was in the video. He just chose to shoot the ball instead of pass or drive.

. . . Because he had a high tendency to shoot from Triple threat.

If he were to attack right after the catch, would you consider that a drive from the triple threat? What about a pass?

I understand the definition but strip the wordplay away and the decisions you make (while facing the basket) prior to dribbling is TT even if you only have the ball in your hand for a second.

Last edited by bigtreydawg; 04-22-2013 at 04:05 PM.
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Old 04-22-2013, 03:55 PM   #621
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serra11
-Well...I have low attack the basket and DTL 0 for all the guards.High NO TT is a problem,no matter what are the other "attacking" tendencies.Trust me.

-It makes them shoot from TT,but a shoot from TT is not a "catch and shot" shot(sorry for this horrible wordplay).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serra11
It is a shot that come after a player stand himself in a triple threat position.

Triple threat position and related moves

Triple threat is the position when a player facing a defender receives a pass but has not dribbled yet. The offensive player's feet are slightly wider than shoulder width and slightly on the balls of his feet, his knees flexed, with both hands on the basketball in front of him or almost resting on his thigh, presenting the defender with an opponent able to move in any direction. One foot is held as the pivot and the other slightly ahead. From this, the player can choose from three options: to jump-shoot, to dribble (drive) past the defender or to pass it to a teammate. There are also options to get the defender out of his defensive stance by using jab steps and pump fakes.
[edit]
Jab step

A jab step, also known as side step, is performed when a player holds onto the ball before dribbling while his non-pivot leg performs a jabbing forward or side motion. This move is used to test defender's defensive weaknesses and stance. A combination of the pump fake, the drive, the shot and the crossover drive can be performed along with the jab step to lure the opponent out of his defense. New York Knicks forward Carmelo Anthony is well known for taking the jab step, as was 13-year pro Kiki Vandeweghe. When he does this, the defender falls off from his defensive stance, creating a space between him and the defender, allowing him to take a quick mid-range jumper, a three-pointer, or a drive "to the lane."
Triple Threat Test - Jersey color changes by test so you will know when the tendencies have changed. I showed his tendencies before the first clip, so I will only list what I change if it is not listed then it is the same as the video shows.

Test #1

Pump Fake = 25
Triple Threat=75
Triple Threat Shot=100
No Triple Threat=100

Test #2

Pump Fake = 25
Triple Threat=75
Triple Threat Shot=100
No Triple Threat=0



Test #3

Pump Fake = 25
Triple Threat=0
Triple Threat Shot=100
No Triple Threat=100

Test #4

Pump Fake = 0
Triple Threat=0
Triple Threat Shot=100
No Triple Threat=0



I think you are mistaking what things mean in real life as opposed to what they in 2k13.

After this testing here is how I view these tendencies:

They control what a player does when he catches ball and is not posted up, and/or what he does if he is not dribbling.

Pump Fake = Fake a shot, pretty straight forward.(is a pass fake tied to this also?)

Triple Threat = Jab Step, if you click the right stick on a player and go to his tendencies you will not see a "triple threat" tendency, you will see a "Jab Step" tendency.

Triple Threat Shot = This effects the frequency of the player to shoot the ball before he dribbles, but also the frequency of how often he shoots after a pump fake or jab step.

No Triple Threat = This could also be called the "catch and dribble" tendency. In other words the higher you set this the more frequently a player will catch the ball and immediately start to dribble it rather than performing a fake or shooting.

So, here is what I believe CPU Hodges "thought" process is when he catches a pass.

It's another of those "if/then" situations. "I" represents Hodges thinking not mine for this example:
Step 1:
I caught the ball, what do I do now?
Step 2:
Do I pass?(Pass Out Tendency)
If then yes, then pass.
If no, then what?
Do I dribble?
If Yes, then dribble tendencies dictate what happens next.
If No, what do I do?
Step 3:
Do I pump fake?(or pass fake)
If yes, then pump fake and return to Step 2.
If No, then what do I do?
Step 4:
Do I Jab Step?
If yes, then jab step and return to Step 2.
If no, what do I do?
Step 5:
Do I shoot?
If yes, then shoot.
If no, then return to step 2.

This playing out very quickly and the higher number each tendency has the more likely it is to occur. That is why a player with TT at 100 with jab step multiple times if his other tendencies are low. His thought process is:
Pass-No
Dribble - No
Pump Fake - No
Jab Step - Yes
Pass-No
Dribble - No
Pump - No
Jab Step - Yes
Pass - No
Dribble - No
Pump Fake - No
Jab Step - Yes........until one of the other animations triggers.
Pass - Yes

So for the Jordan shot in my video you mentioned his thought process was:
Pass - No
Dribble - No
Fake - No
Jab Step - Yes
Pass - No
Dribble - No
Fake - No
Jab Step - Yes
Pass - No
Dribble - No
Fake - No
Jab Step - No
Shoot - Yes

It is the correct blend of all 4 of the tendencies(plus others) that allows MJ to shoot once he creates enough space with the 2nd Jab Step.

Again these "thought processes" are happen constantly and rapidly which is why higher numbers can sometimes result in overkill of a tendency.
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Last edited by qpc123; 04-22-2013 at 03:57 PM.
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Old 04-22-2013, 04:18 PM   #622
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by qpc123
Triple Threat Test - Jersey color changes by test so you will know when the tendencies have changed. I showed his tendencies before the first clip, so I will only list what I change if it is not listed then it is the same as the video shows.

Test #1

Pump Fake = 25
Triple Threat=75
Triple Threat Shot=100
No Triple Threat=100

Test #2

Pump Fake = 25
Triple Threat=75
Triple Threat Shot=100
No Triple Threat=0



Test #3

Pump Fake = 25
Triple Threat=0
Triple Threat Shot=100
No Triple Threat=100

Test #4

Pump Fake = 0
Triple Threat=0
Triple Threat Shot=100
No Triple Threat=0



I think you are mistaking what things mean in real life as opposed to what they in 2k13.

After this testing here is how I view these tendencies:

They control what a player does when he catches ball and is not posted up, and/or what he does if he is not dribbling.

Pump Fake = Fake a shot, pretty straight forward.(is a pass fake tied to this also?)

Triple Threat = Jab Step, if you click the right stick on a player and go to his tendencies you will not see a "triple threat" tendency, you will see a "Jab Step" tendency.

Triple Threat Shot = This effects the frequency of the player to shoot the ball before he dribbles, but also the frequency of how often he shoots after a pump fake or jab step.

No Triple Threat = This could also be called the "catch and dribble" tendency. In other words the higher you set this the more frequently a player will catch the ball and immediately start to dribble it rather than performing a fake or shooting.

So, here is what I believe CPU Hodges "thought" process is when he catches a pass.

It's another of those "if/then" situations. "I" represents Hodges thinking not mine for this example:
Step 1:
I caught the ball, what do I do now?
Step 2:
Do I pass?(Pass Out Tendency)
If then yes, then pass.
If no, then what?
Do I dribble?
If Yes, then dribble tendencies dictate what happens next.
If No, what do I do?
Step 3:
Do I pump fake?(or pass fake)
If yes, then pump fake and return to Step 2.
If No, then what do I do?
Step 4:
Do I Jab Step?
If yes, then jab step and return to Step 2.
If no, what do I do?
Step 5:
Do I shoot?
If yes, then shoot.
If no, then return to step 2.

This playing out very quickly and the higher number each tendency has the more likely it is to occur. That is why a player with TT at 100 with jab step multiple times if his other tendencies are low. His thought process is:
Pass-No
Dribble - No
Pump Fake - No
Jab Step - Yes
Pass-No
Dribble - No
Pump - No
Jab Step - Yes
Pass - No
Dribble - No
Pump Fake - No
Jab Step - Yes........until one of the other animations triggers.
Pass - Yes

So for the Jordan shot in my video you mentioned his thought process was:
Pass - No
Dribble - No
Fake - No
Jab Step - Yes
Pass - No
Dribble - No
Fake - No
Jab Step - Yes
Pass - No
Dribble - No
Fake - No
Jab Step - No
Shoot - Yes

It is the correct blend of all 4 of the tendencies(plus others) that allows MJ to shoot once he creates enough space with the 2nd Jab Step.

Again these "thought processes" are happen constantly and rapidly which is why higher numbers can sometimes result in overkill of a tendency.
Well put,

I sent a PM to SLIMM but QPC123, I may have something that will improve gameplay and allow us to raise help D provided it test out the way I expect.
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Old 04-22-2013, 04:32 PM   #623
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtreydawg
Well put,

I sent a PM to SLIMM but QPC123, I may have something that will improve gameplay and allow us to raise help D provided it test out the way I expect.
Can't wait to hear what it is.
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Old 04-22-2013, 05:55 PM   #624
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Re: Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

Quote:
Originally Posted by qpc123
Triple Threat Test - Jersey color changes by test so you will know when the tendencies have changed. I showed his tendencies before the first clip, so I will only list what I change if it is not listed then it is the same as the video shows.

Test #1

Pump Fake = 25
Triple Threat=75
Triple Threat Shot=100
No Triple Threat=100

Test #2

Pump Fake = 25
Triple Threat=75
Triple Threat Shot=100
No Triple Threat=0



Test #3

Pump Fake = 25
Triple Threat=0
Triple Threat Shot=100
No Triple Threat=100

Test #4

Pump Fake = 0
Triple Threat=0
Triple Threat Shot=100
No Triple Threat=0



I think you are mistaking what things mean in real life as opposed to what they in 2k13.

After this testing here is how I view these tendencies:

They control what a player does when he catches ball and is not posted up, and/or what he does if he is not dribbling.

Pump Fake = Fake a shot, pretty straight forward.(is a pass fake tied to this also?)

Triple Threat = Jab Step, if you click the right stick on a player and go to his tendencies you will not see a "triple threat" tendency, you will see a "Jab Step" tendency.

Triple Threat Shot = This effects the frequency of the player to shoot the ball before he dribbles, but also the frequency of how often he shoots after a pump fake or jab step.

No Triple Threat = This could also be called the "catch and dribble" tendency. In other words the higher you set this the more frequently a player will catch the ball and immediately start to dribble it rather than performing a fake or shooting.

So, here is what I believe CPU Hodges "thought" process is when he catches a pass.

It's another of those "if/then" situations. "I" represents Hodges thinking not mine for this example:
Step 1:
I caught the ball, what do I do now?
Step 2:
Do I pass?(Pass Out Tendency)
If then yes, then pass.
If no, then what?
Do I dribble?
If Yes, then dribble tendencies dictate what happens next.
If No, what do I do?
Step 3:
Do I pump fake?(or pass fake)
If yes, then pump fake and return to Step 2.
If No, then what do I do?
Step 4:
Do I Jab Step?
If yes, then jab step and return to Step 2.
If no, what do I do?
Step 5:
Do I shoot?
If yes, then shoot.
If no, then return to step 2.

This playing out very quickly and the higher number each tendency has the more likely it is to occur. That is why a player with TT at 100 with jab step multiple times if his other tendencies are low. His thought process is:
Pass-No
Dribble - No
Pump Fake - No
Jab Step - Yes
Pass-No
Dribble - No
Pump - No
Jab Step - Yes
Pass - No
Dribble - No
Pump Fake - No
Jab Step - Yes........until one of the other animations triggers.
Pass - Yes

So for the Jordan shot in my video you mentioned his thought process was:
Pass - No
Dribble - No
Fake - No
Jab Step - Yes
Pass - No
Dribble - No
Fake - No
Jab Step - Yes
Pass - No
Dribble - No
Fake - No
Jab Step - No
Shoot - Yes

It is the correct blend of all 4 of the tendencies(plus others) that allows MJ to shoot once he creates enough space with the 2nd Jab Step.

Again these "thought processes" are happen constantly and rapidly which is why higher numbers can sometimes result in overkill of a tendency.
Triple Threat Shot = This effects the frequency of the player to shoot the ball before he dribbles NOT CORRECT

Triple Threat Shot = frequency of how often he shoots after a pump fake or jab step. CORRECT

I have Battier with 0 SHOT FROM TT and 100 in TT.
Every time he catches the ball outside the three point line he immediately shoots.BECUASE his high three point tendency(75).
But when is guarded properly,he "decides" to stand in TT position(because I don't want that he starts to dribble) and after this he always passes the ball because his 0 shoot from tt.
And Hyper can confirm all since I'm using his roster.

Hodges catch and shoot only because his shot tendencies(70 mid and 49 3pt have to be considered high valors) and coach profile of the Bulls),MJ did what he did because his TT,shoot from TT and mid shot tendency.
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Last edited by Serra11; 04-22-2013 at 06:31 PM.
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