Tempo-Freelance-RunPlays

[STLRams]

Ok., so Drive the lane/spot up tendency is technically onball - thus meaning that when the player catches the ball from a pass he will drive the lane or he will catch the ball from a pass and spot up and shoot the ball, correct? So I'm guessing this also tied to the pick and roll player also?

Where as the pull/penetrate tendency is Onball - meaning live dribble the player will drive to the basket or will pull up jumpshot from a live dribble. Do I have the correct understanding of this?

[qpc123]

Quote: Originally Posted by bigtreydawg

I could kiss you!!!! That is awesome!! Is the other team in coach mode, why are they freelancing? SLIMM the second you feel better, I'm gonna need your e-mail address so I can send you a video of me doing the Gangnam Style dance dubbed to Montell Jordan's "This is how we do it" J-Will I see what your saying about drive the lane being "ball in the air" related that is kind of sucky because momentum lead passes are overpowered enough in this game. So it's not that they're cutting to the basket . . . Theyre just being led by a pass? Edit: how does this explain the bat out of hell pace that the CPU gets in when you miss a shot when drive the lane is at 100 for everyone?

I have no idea why they are freelancing, they are CPU not coach mode. My purely speculative theory is that part of the hard-coding in the game has to with the position of the player when everything else is equal.

For example, in the Cartwright video, even though he is a center, one of his clones has to occupy each position. That means one Cartwright is at PG, one is at SG, etc. The one who is the 'PG' is the always going to start the offense if they run a play(they were set not to, to show them just standing around). This Cartwright was more likely to drive than say the Cartwright at PF. I think it also ties into which Spot Up Hot Spots they went to, i.e. the PF and C Cartwright's had priority for the baseline/close to the basket locations.

Again, this is just speculation, but would seem to be a logical explanation for slight variances in the behavior of players who are all clones of each other.

As for how that explains the CPU behavior on a miss with everyone at 100. My guess would be that it increases the chance of the player at all times. So when a player has the slightest opening in transition he goes into 'drive' mode at that induces a reaction from his teammates as if a fastbreak situation where occurring.

[bigtreydawg]

Quote: Originally Posted by STLRams

Ok., so Drive the lane/spot up tendency is technically onball - thus meaning that when the player catches the ball from a pass he will drive the lane or he will catch the ball from a pass and spot up and shoot the ball, correct? So I'm guessing this also tied to the pick and roll player also? Where as the pull/penetrate tendency is Onball - meaning live dribble the player will drive to the basket or will pull up jumpshot from a live dribble. Do I have the correct understanding of this?

Yes this also means that there are indeed three aggression sliders DTL-Penetration-attack.

No wonder we think this game is so aggressive.

Edit: also players still drive based on there inside shot tendency even with all of those at zero . . . Though pull-up/penetration is a tricky one in that its an either or thing.

[qpc123]

Quote: Originally Posted by STLRams

Ok., so Drive the lane/spot up tendency is technically onball - thus meaning that when the player catches the ball from a pass he will drive the lane or he will catch the ball from a pass and spot up and shoot the ball, correct? So I'm guessing this also tied to the pick and roll player also? Where as the pull/penetrate tendency is Onball - meaning live dribble the player will drive to the basket or will pull up jumpshot from a live dribble. Do I have the correct understanding of this?

I'm sure JWill could answer better, but I'll take a stab at it.

Like JWill said, it would better if had called it the 'Drive the Lane' or 'Triple Threat' tendency.

So when a CPU player catches the ball:
Drive the Lane determines wether or not a player drives or "spots up"/enter triple threat mode.

When a player drives what he does during the drive is determined by his interaction with the defender and his 'dribble penetration' tendencies.

When the drive ends, it can end in a number of ways. Two of those ways are a shot or a pass. His choice to shoot is determined by his 'attack' tendency as well as shot location tendencies, his choice to pass to determined by his 'pass out' tendency. How and where the drive ends determine which of the shot types or finishing moves are used.

When a player chooses to 'spot up' he then the 'triple threat' tendencies come into play and determine wether a player, fakes(pump fake), jab steps(triple threat), shoots(TT shot) or dribbles(No TT).

Shot tendencies play into TT shot as well.

If No TT occurs and the player is 'dribbling in place' then the 'set up dribble' tendencies determine the dribble used if the player starts a drive, then its back to the attack/pass out/shot tendency combo.

I think that covers most of it.

When a player

[qpc123]

Quote: Originally Posted by bigtreydawg

Yes this also means that there are indeed three aggression sliders DTL-Penetration-attack. No wonder we think this game is so aggressive. Edit: also players still drive based on there inside shot tendency even with all of those at zero . . . Though pull-up/penetration is a tricky one in that its an either or thing.

Thats exactly how I was seeing it.

The reason the CPU is so aggressive is that multiple aggressive tendencies pile on top of each other.

Player inside shot+drive the lane+attack+coach inside shot+coach attack the basket+game slider inside shot+game slider attack the basket=ATTACK, ATTACK, ATTACK, ATTACK, maybe I should paATTACK...........

[bigtreydawg]

Quote: Originally Posted by qpc123

I'm sure JWill could answer better, but I'll take a stab at it. Like JWill said, it would better if had called it the 'Drive the Lane' or 'Triple Threat' tendency. So when a CPU player catches the ball: Drive the Lane determines wether or not a player drives or "spots up"/enter triple threat mode. When a player drives what he does during the drive is determined by his interaction with the defender and his 'dribble penetration' tendencies. When the drive ends, it can end in a number of ways. Two of those ways are a shot or a pass. His choice to shoot is determined by his 'attack' tendency as well as shot location tendencies, his choice to pass to determined by his 'pass out' tendency. How and where the drive ends determine which of the shot types or finishing moves are used. When a player chooses to 'spot up' he then the 'triple threat' tendencies come into play and determine wether a player, fakes(pump fake), jab steps(triple threat), shoots(TT shot) or dribbles(No TT). Shot tendencies play into TT shot as well. If No TT occurs and the player is 'dribbling in place' then the 'set up dribble' tendencies determine the dribble used if the player starts a drive, then its back to the attack/pass out/shot tendency combo. I think that covers most of it. When a player

Silly me, trying to wash my hands of this thread.

Can the increased amount of pull up jumpers I've been seeing be related to none of my guys having a drive the lane tendency, I wonder?

Because they still attack (drive) when there is any kind of tendency to attack but they are much quicker to pull up now that they don't have a drive the lane tendency.

Hmmmm . . . I just want to start my association lol

[qpc123]

Quote: Originally Posted by bigtreydawg

Silly me, trying to wash my hands of this thread. Can the increased amount of pull up jumpers I've been seeing be related to none of my guys having a drive the lane tendency, I wonder? Because they still attack (drive) when there is any kind of tendency to attack but they are much quicker to pull up now that they don't have a drive the lane tendency. Hmmmm . . . I just want to start my association lol

I think that is it.

No DTL+anything pull-up=pull up a lot.

Higher DTL allows for higher pull-up. Since Pull Up is only a player tendency, you can only effect it in one way. DTL(an attack tendency) can be mitigated in other areas.

The way I look at it, it kinda boils down to one thing. The CPU is over aggressive because they have an over abundance of tendencies to act that way. One or more of those aggressive tendencies needs to eliminated to prevent/limit the crazy attacking.

The question is which one?

Eliminated it through the player tendencies seems like it should be the last option. Coach sliders should likely be the first.

Coaches do have an influence on shot location, but that is based off of style(fastbreak/tempo) and playbook more than it is, 'hey guys, if you play for me we shoot close to the basket."

It would more likely be that "we are going center our offense around the low post" or "we are going to push the pace and get as many easy looks as possible."

Those can be accomplished with either tempo and fast-break adjustments or playbook/play calling.

[qpc123]

CPU vs CPU, Pro, Sim with D Awareness @ 100

All coach shot location sliders are @ 0.



Biggest issue I am having that I don't have a solution in mind for is; for some reason now that DTL is being used players are more likely to 'break the play' and seem less willing to pass at times.